Re: Trump
« Reply #5540 on: June 02, 2020, 11:42:03 PM »


check it out, you can actually watch the AG take a shit all over the constitution on youtube. neat.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5541 on: June 03, 2020, 08:11:48 AM »
It's boarded up. Is that what you mean, or are you hinting at something else?
The particular photo you posted doesn't show it, but the church and its surroundings have been completely trashed.



Was it the protesters who were cleared out that were responsible?  Or was it a previous nights or hours work?
This is a fair point. It looks like a news crew got attacked while on air, which is pretty damming.

Perhaps this is just the incorrigible cynic in me speaking. When a movement that's been defined by people stealing TVs a photo of someone taking a shit on top of an overturned police car is protesting, I stay away from the protests. It seems like an obvious hazard - even if I'm the most upstanding citizen on Earth, I'd be likely to get tangled up in something nasty. Doubly so since some protesters have been seen randomly attacking others trying to join.

How the fuck can anyone, even people who are there, say with certainty who incited violence or who was responding to the threat of violence?
I think we're past that point. BLM's legitimacy has been repeatedly assassinated; by the press, by governments, and by the protesters themselves. With the number of violent riots and petty lootings going on all over the place, it really doesn't surprise me that much that they'd be taking an extremely heavy-handed approach.

That said, it doesn't justify seemingly unprovoked violence towards these people. Orange Man should have just waited 20 minutes for the curfew to begin.

Anyway, here we are with Trump making a show of his forcefulness that will almost certainly only serve to widen the gulf between ideologies.  Never once has he called for any kind of reconcilation, or tried to prevail on cooler heads.  All he seems to know how to do is to throw gasoline on fires in the hopes that the wood will turn to ash quicker.  Then the portion of people who have a legitimate point to protest get drowned out by the elements that decide that looting and rioting are better than words.
It is sad, yes, but do you think calls for reconciliation would be taken seriously by anyone? This happens every time a police killing of a black person gains media attention. Obama's approach didn't work much better.

To me, a harsh approach seems appropriate, but it should be much, much more targeted. Isolate those who incite violence, and others will probably disperse. I can only hope that some of that is happening.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5542 on: June 03, 2020, 08:41:43 AM »
It's always funny to see Trump pretend to give a shit about God or religion. I don't personally hold it against him because I don't care about it either, but I can't imagine the level of contortion needed for Christians to convince themselves that he's one of them.

I don't understand this either and I know some Christians who are apologists for him. [I also know plenty who, like me, are horrified that he is the POTUS]

He called The Bible his favourite book and then couldn't name a single verse when he was asked which was his favourite - he hid that under "it's personal", but the real answer, of course, is that he never reads the thing.
The thing which makes so called evangelical Christians wave their little Stars and Stripes is his stance on abortion, that's about it. Which, like most of his views, shows zero empathy for anyone.

I can't think of any other view he espouses which fits in with a Christian world view. Christians don't expect other Christians to be perfect - pretty much the entire point is that we're not and not able to be. But he famously said he doesn't feel the need to ask forgiveness and I see no evidence of any "fruit" in his life. He shows no compassion for people, he routinely displays racist, misogynistic and bigoted views. If those were in his past and there was evidence of turnaround then I'd have no issue with that, but he continues to have those attitudes.

I don't understand why a lot of Christians in the US see him as "their guy".
I'm not saying Clinton was "their guy" either, increasingly in elections (in the UK too) it's about picking the least bad option. But was that really Trump?

Increasingly it's hard to tell the difference between satire and reality when it comes to stories around Trump :(
Tear gassing peaceful protesters to clear his path so he could go to a church for a photo op and wave a Bible around.
You couldn't make it up...
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5543 on: June 03, 2020, 11:32:48 AM »
To me, a harsh approach seems appropriate, but it should be much, much more targeted. Isolate those who incite violence, and others will probably disperse. I can only hope that some of that is happening.

I agree with pretty much everything I snipped.  Nothing to add and well said.  In regards to this comment, I think his words could echo this type of strategy.  Encourage healing and make a commitment to justice and promise swift justice for those that waylay legitimate protesters.  As I wrote that, I realized exactly how out of character a message like that would be for Trump, so I don't know why I expected it in the first place. 



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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5544 on: June 03, 2020, 11:53:08 AM »
The particular photo you posted doesn't show it, but the church and its surroundings have been completely trashed.

IMG

Yes, but the members of the clergy WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE and got tear-gassed to make way for the Orange Goblin assert that those who were there AT THE TIME were administering first-aid and such to a group of peaceful protesters. There's no indication that those who got cleared out actually did the damage shown in your image.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5545 on: June 03, 2020, 12:26:42 PM »
Yes, but
No buts. On the whole, the protests aren't particularly peaceful. I said nothing more than that, and if you read anything more than that into it, then I am now clarifying it for your benefit.

In other news, Orange Man doesn't seem to be doing well.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 12:31:05 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5546 on: June 03, 2020, 12:33:16 PM »
No buts. On the whole, the protests aren't particularly peaceful. I said nothing more than that, and if you read anything more than that, then I am now clarifying it for your benefit.

I question this narrative.  I don't know that this is correct or incorrect, but I do know that yesterday in Houston 60,000 people marched without incident.  I heard this from a friend and saw nothing of it in the media.  How much have circumstances like these been ignored?  I feel like there is a holistic view of these events that is missing from Reddit superthreads, etc...

EDIT: Just to be clear I don't want to come across as thinking the protests are wholly peaceful, just that I think the peaceful gatherings are potentially underreported.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 12:43:09 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5547 on: June 03, 2020, 01:51:17 PM »
Yeah, I'm sure that's the case to some extent. It's definitely easier to write stories about riots and lootings. That said, the Houston march seems to have been quite thoroughly covered by the media. Though that could have been just because Floyd's family was there.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5548 on: June 03, 2020, 02:15:08 PM »
I didn't see this on the media - likely because it wasn't violent enough.

Thousands of protestors lie on the ground chanting "I can't breathe" for 9 minutes (the length of time George Floyd was being pinned).

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5549 on: June 03, 2020, 03:23:36 PM »
Yeah, I'm sure that's the case to some extent. It's definitely easier to write stories about riots and lootings.

Media gonna media. It seems like on the one hand they show a steady stream of cities burning and stores being looted, and on the other they condemn Trump for taking such a hard line against what they describe as peaceful protests (not that I agree with how Trump has handled this, mind you). I don't think the media has been covering this particularly well, but what else is new?
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5550 on: June 03, 2020, 03:37:50 PM »
https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/defense-secretary-opposes-trump-on-use-of-military-in-riots/amp/

Ooh, Trump hates it when someone in his Cabinet publicly disagrees with him. He probably won't be happy with the comment about the photo op either. I wonder how long Esper will keep his position before he's replaced by another unrepentant yesman.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 03:39:34 PM by Roundy »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5551 on: June 03, 2020, 03:58:15 PM »
Trump's history of racism laid out in this Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1267902480794488835
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5552 on: June 03, 2020, 07:24:36 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-church-photo-op-took-defense-secretary-esper-gen-n1222391

More on the Esper situation. This article seems to clear up the question of when the church was actually vandalized; according to Esper he was under the impression that they were going to be visiting the park and church to observe damage and vandalism that had been committed the night before. He said the photo op took him by surprise.

So there doesn't seem to be any reason to think the protesters who were cleared out with tear gas so Trump could get his photo holding a Bible in front of a church were anything but peaceful.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5553 on: June 03, 2020, 07:36:10 PM »
Has anyone else noticed the double standard here versus Charlottesville? After Charlottesville Trump refused to condemn the people protesting the removal of the statue,  saying that alongside the Nazis and white supremacists were some very fine people.

The people protesting George Floyd's murder, on the other hand, are dangerous extremists. Can anybody find an example of Trump praising some of them the way he did the Charlottesville protesters? I'm genuinely curious. I haven't heard or seen it myself.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5554 on: June 03, 2020, 08:05:09 PM »
Has anyone else noticed the double standard here versus Charlottesville? After Charlottesville Trump refused to condemn the people protesting the removal of the statue,  saying that alongside the Nazis and white supremacists were some very fine people.

The people protesting George Floyd's murder, on the other hand, are dangerous extremists. Can anybody find an example of Trump praising some of them the way he did the Charlottesville protesters? I'm genuinely curious. I haven't heard or seen it myself.

Charlottesville had one of their protesters commit a homicide and he still praised them.  I haven't seen anything to indicate that Trump feels anything but disdain for anyone who opposed his base.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5555 on: June 03, 2020, 08:14:00 PM »
Anyone else see a similarity ...?



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Re: Trump
« Reply #5556 on: June 03, 2020, 08:22:50 PM »
Anyone else see a similarity ...?



- - -



Obviously Trump should be Kayser Soze, since just about everything he says is a lie he made up on the spot, but still pretty close.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5557 on: June 03, 2020, 08:30:18 PM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-supporters-might-demand-that-he-serve-more-than-two-terms-as-president/ar-AACXSMW

Poor Donald. He really doesn't want to break the law, but the people might just DEMAND that he does.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5558 on: June 04, 2020, 02:56:48 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-supporters-might-demand-that-he-serve-more-than-two-terms-as-president/ar-AACXSMW

Poor Donald. He really doesn't want to break the law, but the people might just DEMAND that he does.

Only in Trump's diluted mind would that happen. Imagine the revolution that would ensue if the most authoritarian president in history swindled his way into more than a constitutionally allowed two-term limit....
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5559 on: June 04, 2020, 03:27:32 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-supporters-might-demand-that-he-serve-more-than-two-terms-as-president/ar-AACXSMW

Poor Donald. He really doesn't want to break the law, but the people might just DEMAND that he does.

Old article.  But yeah, his supporters would love it despite the absolute disregard for the constitution.