Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« on: November 17, 2016, 06:24:49 PM »
http://www.iflscience.com/space/russia-wants-to-send-people-to-the-moon-in-2031/

Interesting... That they only need 15 more years to plan the mission, and develop the technology to accomplish the mission... yet we supposedly already did this in 1960's with Sub Speak & Spell level computer technology.

If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions? I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 06:36:18 PM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

Offline CableDawg

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 02:29:26 AM »

If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it?

Why hasn't FES mounted an expedition to map and explore the ice wall?  Surely there are enough FE believers out there to overcome any type of conspiracy yet all they do is regurgitate the same 100 plus year old story and conspiracy theories and call it good.  Why not put half that effort into something which will definitively prove your theory to be correct?

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Offline Boots

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 06:38:49 AM »

If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it?

Why hasn't FES mounted an expedition to map and explore the ice wall?  Surely there are enough FE believers out there to overcome any type of conspiracy yet all they do is regurgitate the same 100 plus year old story and conspiracy theories and call it good.  Why not put half that effort into something which will definitively prove your theory to be correct?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 08:28:18 PM »
http://www.iflscience.com/space/russia-wants-to-send-people-to-the-moon-in-2031/

Interesting... That they only need 15 more years to plan the mission, and develop the technology to accomplish the mission... yet we supposedly already did this in 1960's with Sub Speak & Spell level computer technology.

If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions? I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Kennedy said they were going to the moon because it was hard, not because it was easy.  In fact, no one has ever asserted it was easy going to the moon, except ignoramuses and conspiracy theorists.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 11:55:14 AM »

 Also, it’s not as if there is nothing else going on up there.

New horizon is currently hanging around Pluto looking at possible slush oceans, Messenger data from Mercury is still being analysed (http://earthsky.org/space/great-valley-mercury-messenger-2016), Cassini is taking beautiful (and informative) images of Titan’s clouds (http://earthsky.org/space/watch-summer-clouds-on-titan ), Curiosity is trundling around on Mars I think, if it didn’t get blown up by the ESA’s Schiaparelli lander ‘s rather heavy landing, the Kepler space observatory is looking at planet transitions across giant stars, Swift is helping and looking for the birth of black holes, Rosetta has just finished a reasonable successful rendezvous with a comet, the Venus Express is coming to the end of its life after giving us valuable information on Venus and Earth, and so on.
 
Not all of these are the work of the great Satan NASA, the last two are European, India has a Mars orbiter in position, Japan has Hayabusa 2 heading for a meeting with an asteroid in an effort to find the origins of life and China are planning their own space station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiangong-2).

So don’t worry, while you have been firmly stuck in the dark ages, others have been pushing for the stars.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 12:35:22 AM »
New Horizons is not "hanging around Pluto".  It was moving WAY too fast to try for a capture orbit, flew in and out of the Pluto system in a matter of hours, barely even perturbed from the hyperbolic solar trajectory it's been on since Jupiter. 


With its limited fuel budget the most it can do is very slightly alter its orbit, which it has done to target a Kuiper Belt Object for a January 2019 flyby
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 12:41:19 AM by Rounder »
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 08:31:33 AM »

My Bad, sloppy.

Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Offline fliggs

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2016, 05:20:32 AM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

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Offline junker

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2016, 06:00:20 AM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2016, 06:47:44 AM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

1. A place to live in case an asteroid decides to blow up earth.
2. Advancement of human capabilities.
3. Fun for the whole family.

Offline fliggs

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 08:50:41 AM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

What does Mars offer? Maybe you should aquaint with the reasons so many countries and agencies want to go there. It DOES have an atmosphere albeit thin. It has gravity and a near 24hr rotational cycle. Also, it is the only planet we can reach capable of supporting life.

So what does Mars offer???  A chance to explore and increase our knowledge. it has ice caps, probable water in aquifers.

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2016, 04:44:23 PM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

What does Mars offer? Maybe you should aquaint with the reasons so many countries and agencies want to go there. It DOES have an atmosphere albeit thin. It has gravity and a near 24hr rotational cycle. Also, it is the only planet we can reach capable of supporting life.

So what does Mars offer???  A chance to explore and increase our knowledge. it has ice caps, probable water in aquifers.

Why is everyone so worried about making Mars the new Earth instead of the fact that we're making Earth the new Mars?

Wouldn't it make much more sense to build a survival camp on the moon? It's a lot closer, and don't we have a track record of landing on the moon, somehow taking back off of the moon, and returning gently to Earth? Seems like the more logical choice to me. Any system we would plan for mars should probably be tested closer to home first, wouldn't you agree?

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Offline junker

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 05:03:15 PM »
What does Mars offer? Maybe you should aquaint with the reasons so many countries and agencies want to go there. It DOES have an atmosphere albeit thin. It has gravity and a near 24hr rotational cycle. Also, it is the only planet we can reach capable of supporting life.

So what does Mars offer???  A chance to explore and increase our knowledge. it has ice caps, probable water in aquifers.

I am fully aware of the reasons people are interested. "Supporting life" is a bit of a misnomer. I am sure you are aware of the numerous difficulties that would be encountered for humans to try to colonize Mars (assuming you were implying humans when you mentioned supporting life).

Offline fliggs

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2016, 10:22:58 PM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

What does Mars offer? Maybe you should aquaint with the reasons so many countries and agencies want to go there. It DOES have an atmosphere albeit thin. It has gravity and a near 24hr rotational cycle. Also, it is the only planet we can reach capable of supporting life.

So what does Mars offer???  A chance to explore and increase our knowledge. it has ice caps, probable water in aquifers.

Why is everyone so worried about making Mars the new Earth instead of the fact that we're making Earth the new Mars?

Wouldn't it make much more sense to build a survival camp on the moon? It's a lot closer, and don't we have a track record of landing on the moon, somehow taking back off of the moon, and returning gently to Earth? Seems like the more logical choice to me. Any system we would plan for mars should probably be tested closer to home first, wouldn't you agree?

Mars has the potential for being self-sustaining no matter how difficult that would be. The moon has zero potential for that.

Offline Rekt

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 12:51:56 PM »
If manned lunar landings were so easy in the 60's and 70's why has no one else done it? Or why haven't we done it since Apollo Missions?

No one claimed that it was easy. In fact, it was really, really expensive, which is why no one else has done it since, including us.

Quote
I can imagine many different scientific benefits to experimenting technology or developing it on the moon.

Like what? We already have the ISS for zero-g experiments.

The other problem was that the success of the moonlandings was getting there and getting back safely. UNfortunately, the moon offers little else beyond a place to plant a flag. Mars however...

What does Mars offer? Besides no atmosphere and no magnetic field...

What does Mars offer? Maybe you should aquaint with the reasons so many countries and agencies want to go there. It DOES have an atmosphere albeit thin. It has gravity and a near 24hr rotational cycle. Also, it is the only planet we can reach capable of supporting life.

So what does Mars offer???  A chance to explore and increase our knowledge. it has ice caps, probable water in aquifers.

Why is everyone so worried about making Mars the new Earth instead of the fact that we're making Earth the new Mars?

Wouldn't it make much more sense to build a survival camp on the moon? It's a lot closer, and don't we have a track record of landing on the moon, somehow taking back off of the moon, and returning gently to Earth? Seems like the more logical choice to me. Any system we would plan for mars should probably be tested closer to home first, wouldn't you agree?
"Should be tested closer to home first"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System#SLS_mission_schedule
EM-1
Send Orion capsule on trip around the Moon, deploy 6 other small cubesats
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
It's almost as if... they ARE doing that!

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 05:16:18 PM »
1. A place to live in case an asteroid decides to blow up earth.
A society advanced enough to form a colony on another planet is advanced enough to alter course of the asteroid suspected of colliding with the Earth.

Honestly, the fiction never ceases here.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 06:23:28 PM »
1. A place to live in case an asteroid decides to blow up earth.
A society advanced enough to form a colony on another planet is advanced enough to alter course of the asteroid suspected of colliding with the Earth.

Honestly, the fiction never ceases here.
That really depends on the size doesn't it? I figure it's a lot easier to settle on, say Mars, than to redirect a mass-extinction event asteroid. The chicxulub crater was done by an object estimated to be about 6 miles in diameter. That's a whole lot of mass.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 06:48:01 PM »
1. A place to live in case an asteroid decides to blow up earth.
A society advanced enough to form a colony on another planet is advanced enough to alter course of the asteroid suspected of colliding with the Earth.

Honestly, the fiction never ceases here.

That's not necessarily true. The amount of energy required to move relatively lightweight materials from Earth to Mars would be several orders of magnitude smaller than the amount of energy required to move even a small asteroid.

Poseidon

Re: Russia Wants To Send People Back To The Moon In 2031
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 08:30:30 PM »
Asteroids can often be HUGE. Even a moderately sized one would prove very difficult, even theoretically  impossible, to move compared to our ability to move stuff to and from and around ON Mars.

Why does Russia say technology will be better in a few years? Simple. The last time we went to the Moon we had no intention of doing ANYTHING there besides landing, looking around, posting a few flags, and leaving.

Russia wants to DO STUFF this time around. You have to have more than the technology to just get off the ground, get there, get back OFF the Lunar ground, and get back. That cost so much damn money and effort it was un-effing-believable back in the '60's and '70's.

As to the above comments regarding the utility of the Moon as a place to live, that is debatable. It is not terraformable per se, no. But we could conceivably live there, yes. Under domes,or what-have-you.

Mars IS more Earthlike than the Moon. It is a better option for larger numbers of people. As for the remarks about turning Mars into Earth v. turning Earth into Mars, they are quite apropos, and something to seriously contemplate.

But to make an argument, as the OP does, that Russia doesn't mean what they are saying based on the technology we supposedly had "pre-Speak-and-Spell", just shows how lacking in knowledge the average FEer is in logic and basic human progress.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 08:33:33 PM by Poseidon »