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Offline rabinoz

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"TFES Wiki" contains the following claims:
Quote
Sinking Ship Effect
It is proven that the ship does not sink behind a hill of water, but that it is actually perspective which hides it. This demonstrates that the earth is not a globe. There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes, showing that they are not actually hiding behind "hills of water".

This is presented in two parts:
  • The claim " that the ship does not sink behind a hill of water"
    The first claim is "It is proven that the ship does not sink behind a hill of water, but that it is actually perspective which hides it."

    I can find claims to this effect, but no proof, simply the statement
              "that it is actually perspective which hides it.", followed by Rowbotham''s explanation on his "proof",
               which pre-supposes that the earth is flat. In other words, all we have is "If the earth were flat, this might explain the 'sinking ship' phenomenon."
    Then the statement "This demonstrates that the earth is not a globe."
    I do not regard any of this as proof, as it pre-supposes that the earth is flat.

  • Then the claim "half-sunken ships have been restored"
    Then simply a bald statement "There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".
    The statement "There have been experiments" is exactly the thing that globe supporters are criticised for! Where are always told to show "the evidence"!

So, please publish the evidence that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes"

And boats that are simply too small to see on the horizon "restored" by a long zoom lens will not be considered as evidence.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 06:00:48 AM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect

Had you bothered to read my post it would be obvious that I had read that material and was definitely not asking for an explanation of "Sinking Ship Effect".

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This is presented in two parts:
  • The claim " that the ship does not sink behind a hill of water"
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  • Then the claim "half-sunken ships have been restored"
    Then simply a bald statement "There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".
    The statement "There have been experiments" is exactly the thing that globe supporters are criticised for! Where are always told to show "the evidence"!

So, please publish the evidence that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes"

And boats that are simply too small to see on the horizon "restored" by a long zoom lens will not be considered as evidence.


So, I repeat the question:
Then simply a bald statement
"There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".

So, please publish the evidence that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes"

I am asking for the evidence that is referred to in "the Wiki".

And as I said before a ship not visible because it is too small in the photo or video is useless. You posted this:
Ships which seem to be half sunken can be restored with a telescope, proving that it is not really hidden behind a "hill of water":
Some video of the above effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev_dw3GrEr0
That very video shows a ship too far away to see at wide-angle becoming visible at a long zoom. That is NOT a ship hidden by the horizon being restored.
Exactly that same effect could be observed in a video of a car a few miles away being "restored" by a telescope and is completely irrelevant.

So, please publish the existing evidence claimed in "the Wiki" that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2016, 04:35:19 AM »
I think somebody in the FES should talk to somebody in the Navy about this subject.
But that is probably against their rules....or against their nature.
After all the Navy is just one more member of The Conspiracy anyway. Most sailors have some degree of security clearance and they would get court martialed if they said they were hiding the fact that the earth is flat. That is probably part of Classified Information.

I have a theory for this part of the flat earth wiki.
Rowbotham was eiither short sighted ..... or had cataracts......or both.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 04:49:57 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2016, 08:18:12 AM »
. . . . . . . . .
I have a theory for this part of the flat earth wiki.
Rowbotham was eiither short sighted ..... or had cataracts......or both.
Could we say
Quote
There are none so blind as those who will not see. . . . , ,
            John Heywood, 1546
Some real evidence could possiby change our minds.

Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2016, 12:59:47 AM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect

Hey, he is alive!

I think rabinoz is referring to the suspicious lack of modern, visual evidence. Not the written account of a single person 100+ years ago.

(Also, shameless plug for this thread)

Offline truth

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 07:11:42 AM »
I heard about a guy who was sitting every day in a dock and watching the crossing by ships and had never seen any sunken ship,
Yet I do not say it doesn't happen, I truly say it happen but in certain times when the earth is changing phases and ground formation.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 05:52:30 PM »
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect

Had you bothered to read my post it would be obvious that I had read that material and was definitely not asking for an explanation of "Sinking Ship Effect".

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This is presented in two parts:
  • The claim " that the ship does not sink behind a hill of water"
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  • Then the claim "half-sunken ships have been restored"
    Then simply a bald statement "There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".
    The statement "There have been experiments" is exactly the thing that globe supporters are criticised for! Where are always told to show "the evidence"!

So, please publish the evidence that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes"

And boats that are simply too small to see on the horizon "restored" by a long zoom lens will not be considered as evidence.


So, I repeat the question:
Then simply a bald statement
"There have been experiments where half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".

So, please publish the evidence that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes"

I am asking for the evidence that is referred to in "the Wiki".

And as I said before a ship not visible because it is too small in the photo or video is useless. You posted this:
Ships which seem to be half sunken can be restored with a telescope, proving that it is not really hidden behind a "hill of water":
Some video of the above effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev_dw3GrEr0
That very video shows a ship too far away to see at wide-angle becoming visible at a long zoom. That is NOT a ship hidden by the horizon being restored.
Exactly that same effect could be observed in a video of a car a few miles away being "restored" by a telescope and is completely irrelevant.

So, please publish the existing evidence claimed in "the Wiki" that "half-sunken ships have been restored by simply looking at them through telescopes".

The article references accounts in two books of the effect. First hand observations are evidence.

Offline truth

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 05:39:02 AM »
The sinking ship is a absolutely a mirage - when hot air and cold water meets together the ship and its exhaust make it to seems dropping and go downwards.
The image is distorted according to the ability of the air portraying in such depths(most of the ships got the image in certain depths).

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Offline junker

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 05:51:27 AM »
The sinking ship is a absolutely a mirage - when hot air and cold water meets together the ship and its exhaust make it to seems dropping and go downwards.
The image is distorted according to the ability of the air portraying in such depths(most of the ships got the image in certain depths).

Wait a sec, you are telling me that this boat isn't actually floating?



Something something Eratosthenes...
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

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You're doing God's work, junker.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 08:06:20 AM »

Wait a sec, you are telling me that this boat isn't actually floating?



Something something Eratosthenes...
I don't know where Eratosthenes comes into the argument, even I can recognise a  ;D Flying Boat  ;D when I see one.

And Planoterrestrialists (as Leo Ferrari called himself) doubt  ;) refraction and mirages  ;).

Offline truth

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 07:39:07 PM »
The sinking ship is a absolutely a mirage - when hot air and cold water meets together the ship and its exhaust make it to seems dropping and go downwards.
The image is distorted according to the ability of the air portraying in such depths(most of the ships got the image in certain depths).

Wait a sec, you are telling me that this boat isn't actually floating?



Something something Eratosthenes...
it is the result of the air trying to portrait accurately the forces press on it.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Half-sunken ships Restored by simply looking at them through a Telescope
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 12:20:12 PM »
The sinking ship is a absolutely a mirage - when hot air and cold water meets together the ship and its exhaust make it to seems dropping and go downwards.
The image is distorted according to the ability of the air portraying in such depths(most of the ships got the image in certain depths).

Wait a sec, you are telling me that this boat isn't actually floating?



Something something Eratosthenes...
it is the result of the air trying to portrait accurately the forces press on it.
I really have no idea what you mean.

This is nothing more than a superior mirage, sometimes called (probably not quite correctly) a "Fata Morgana".

See False wall of water created by 'Fata Morgana' mirage may have hidden iceberg from Titanic lookouts until it was too late.

Here is a recent video showing a ship that is partially hidden behind the horizon. Zooming in does not bring the hull back into view. The relevant portion starts at about 0:40:



Further on there is a ship where the hull is visible both before and after zooming starting at about 4:10.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:21:13 PM by Nirmala »

I think somebody in the FES should talk to somebody in the Navy about this subject.
But that is probably against their rules....or against their nature.
After all the Navy is just one more member of The Conspiracy anyway. Most sailors have some degree of security clearance and they would get court martialed if they said they were hiding the fact that the earth is flat. That is probably part of Classified Information.

I have a theory for this part of the flat earth wiki.
Rowbotham was eiither short sighted ..... or had cataracts......or both.

I'm in the Navy.  In fact, I'm a submarine officer with 9 years in the Navy who has traveled over 50,000 miles at sea.  Believe me, if the earth was flat I'd know lol.  I've literally observed thousands of ships through a periscope either come over the horizon or go over the horizon.  Because our periscope is only a few feet out of the water our distance to the horizon is only about 5,000 yards so ships coming over or going over the horizon is very commonplace.  The phenomena is so well documented that we can actually calculate the distance to ships based on the known distance to the horizon and how much of the ship we can see over the horizon.  Its also an easy trick to approximate the range of ships near the horizon.  Furthermore, if we see the mast of a ship we can't identify we often stick our periscope more out of the water (by changing our depth) which changes our height of eye and therefore changes our distance to the horizon.  Sure enough, when we do this more of the ship comes into view.  We also have far more powerful magnification on our periscopes (along with night vision and infrared vision) then people have access to in the civilian sector and I can assure you that zooming does not bring the ship back into view if it goes over the horizon.  Likewise, if a ship goes over the horizon you can't pick it up with night vision on infrared.  If the earth was flat then we would be able to pick them up on infrared from pretty much any distance.  Helicopters with infrared can easily pick up contacts from a hundred miles away if they are high enough.

And the final nail in the coffin is radar.  The effective range of your radar is dependent on how high the radar is above the water line.  This is because the curvature of the earth limits your radar.  This is why ships always place their radar as high as possible.  You can even test this out if you have your own boat and you buy a portable radar.

However, no flat earther will ever believe my testimony.  I guess I'm a liar in their eyes lol.

Offline Flatout

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I would like to see some cities that are over the horizon get restored through magnification.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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I would like to see some cities that are over the horizon get restored through magnification.


Apparently you have not read Earth Not a Globe: http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Offline Flatout

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I would like to see some cities that are over the horizon get restored through magnification.


Apparently you have not read Earth Not a Globe: http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm
Tom, please show me some objects that appear to be over horizon and are brought back over the horizon with greater magnification.   In the video that I just posted the ship didn't rise up over the horizon when the magnification was increased.   It just got bigger.

Better yet, I'd like a video of you wearing a frock.  Id like to see your feet disappear via the law of perspective.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 06:48:41 AM by Flatout »

Offline simba

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I would like to see some cities that are over the horizon get restored through magnification.


Apparently you have not read Earth Not a Globe: http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Interesting, would reading that book make him or the telescope able to see through the horizon?

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Offline Boots

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I think somebody in the FES should talk to somebody in the Navy about this subject.
But that is probably against their rules....or against their nature.
After all the Navy is just one more member of The Conspiracy anyway. Most sailors have some degree of security clearance and they would get court martialed if they said they were hiding the fact that the earth is flat. That is probably part of Classified Information.

I have a theory for this part of the flat earth wiki.
Rowbotham was eiither short sighted ..... or had cataracts......or both.

I'm in the Navy.  In fact, I'm a submarine officer with 9 years in the Navy who has traveled over 50,000 miles at sea.  Believe me, if the earth was flat I'd know lol.  I've literally observed thousands of ships through a periscope either come over the horizon or go over the horizon.  Because our periscope is only a few feet out of the water our distance to the horizon is only about 5,000 yards so ships coming over or going over the horizon is very commonplace.  The phenomena is so well documented that we can actually calculate the distance to ships based on the known distance to the horizon and how much of the ship we can see over the horizon.  Its also an easy trick to approximate the range of ships near the horizon.  Furthermore, if we see the mast of a ship we can't identify we often stick our periscope more out of the water (by changing our depth) which changes our height of eye and therefore changes our distance to the horizon.  Sure enough, when we do this more of the ship comes into view.  We also have far more powerful magnification on our periscopes (along with night vision and infrared vision) then people have access to in the civilian sector and I can assure you that zooming does not bring the ship back into view if it goes over the horizon.  Likewise, if a ship goes over the horizon you can't pick it up with night vision on infrared.  If the earth was flat then we would be able to pick them up on infrared from pretty much any distance.  Helicopters with infrared can easily pick up contacts from a hundred miles away if they are high enough.

And the final nail in the coffin is radar.  The effective range of your radar is dependent on how high the radar is above the water line.  This is because the curvature of the earth limits your radar.  This is why ships always place their radar as high as possible.  You can even test this out if you have your own boat and you buy a portable radar.

However, no flat earther will ever believe my testimony.  I guess I'm a liar in their eyes lol.

Well there you have it!

First hand observations are evidence.
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei