My conclusion.
« on: September 23, 2016, 05:00:01 PM »
Hello All,

I've spent the better part of four days on this site and the wiki.  I'm what here is referred to as a "round earther".  But, I'm also an objective thinker and will always entertain opposing views, so I find myself here.

My conclusion relating to the flat earth theory is that it is some form of complete denial of reality.  Although I'm certainly no scientist, I am very well educated and excel in thinking critically so I've had no problems understanding the proofs submitted by those supporting the flat earth theory.  At best, they're flawed science and in most cases are intentionally obtuse and/or blatantly fabricated.  Conversely, there are innumerable methods and proofs that can easily be used to support the fact that the earth is round.  These are commonly dismissed as conspiratorial while the simplest of tests (just walking up to a telescope and looking around) are explained away with pseudo-scientific responses that are completely unsupported by any true scientific method (the heavily leaned on perspective argument is laughable at best and the dime and elephant analogy actually made me laugh out loud at one point).

I've spent a good deal of time wondering what motivation would cause someone to deny a reality that is incontrovertibly proven, and I must admit that I'm baffled by this.  There doesn't appear to be any personal gain in claiming a flat earth yet it is held by some with a fervor that I can only compare to religious zeal.

On the wiki there is a section called Occam's Razor, I'm sure everyone here knows the principle.  In that section there is a question: "What's the simplest explanation; that when I look up and see the sun slowly move across the sky over the course of the day, that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration, or is the simplest explanation that the sun itself is just moving across the sky exactly as I have observed?"

I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 05:02:34 PM by grepico »

*

Offline Luke 22:35-38

  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • The earth is round. Prove I'm wrong.
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2016, 11:31:18 PM »
Shalom and welcome to the forum.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

George

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2016, 11:59:25 PM »
Occam's Razor can be twisted in all kinds of ways to make one of two options sound hopelessly convoluted and the alternative sound perfectly simple, no matter the subject, so I'm not in favor of using it as an argument.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6519
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 03:09:56 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?

Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 03:46:45 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?

Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Yeah, just the government. And airline companies. And shipping companies. And broadcast network companies. And probably most geologists, astronomers, and meteorologists. Quite a few aerospace companies. And, and, and...

I almost wish it was true just based of how impressive it would be.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2016, 04:21:06 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation:
Oh, I get it! 
Simple explanations for simpletons! 

NEXT QUESTION: 
Are you simple? 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2016, 05:54:28 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?

Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.
Yup, they did well with the whole Snowden thing.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6519
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2016, 09:00:21 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?

Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Yeah, just the government. And airline companies. And shipping companies. And broadcast network companies. And probably most geologists, astronomers, and meteorologists. Quite a few aerospace companies. And, and, and...

I almost wish it was true just based of how impressive it would be.

They are merely mistaken.

Yup, they did well with the whole Snowden thing.

The Obama administration is allowing it to happen, for whatever agenda. The government reached out to the media and asked them not to talk about certain subjects, or talk about certain countries by name. Anyone who publishes something by Snowden is breaking the law. The government has plenty of people with guns and gravels willing to enforce that law. They could have easily raided the offices of the journalists and arrested them for breaking the law and seized the assets of the news organization if they really wanted to. In fact, they could legally assassinate Snowden and anyone who talked about it under some of the old timey treason laws.

If it wasn't for the subject matter that the liberal administration agreed with, a whistleblow against a rogue agency, the matter would have been enforced. The NSA complained loudly that they felt Obama turned his back on them when it happened. If the subject were instead, NAVY Rail Gun blueprints, the government wouldn't just let people publish that.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 10:17:32 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1436
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2016, 10:51:14 AM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?

Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Yeah, just the government. And airline companies. And shipping companies. And broadcast network companies. And probably most geologists, astronomers, and meteorologists. Quite a few aerospace companies. And, and, and...

I almost wish it was true just based of how impressive it would be.

They are merely mistaken.

Yup, they did well with the whole Snowden thing.

The Obama administration is allowing it to happen, for whatever agenda. The government reached out to the media and asked them not to talk about certain subjects, or talk about certain countries by name. Anyone who publishes something by Snowden is breaking the law. The government has plenty of people with guns and gravels willing to enforce that law. They could have easily raided the offices of the journalists and arrested them for breaking the law and seized the assets of the news organization if they really wanted to. In fact, they could legally assassinate Snowden and anyone who talked about it under some of the old timey treason laws.

If it wasn't for the subject matter that the liberal administration agreed with, a whistleblow against a rogue agency, the matter would have been enforced. The NSA complained loudly that they felt Obama turned his back on them when it happened. If the subject were instead, NAVY Rail Gun blueprints, the government wouldn't just let people publish that.

Sure, sure, but the shape of the earth has been known for many centuries.
Sure, I know it was the terrible Illuminati,  Freemasons, Zionists, the Brotherhood or . . Who have I left out?

But, there are an almost innumerable number of jobs that implicitly depend of the Globe. Many jobs that would not exist, or would at least be very different if the earth were flat.

These go all the way from
those directly involved in the space industry
aircraft who most certainly know the earth's shape, especially as it drastically affects the lengths of many routes,
ships navigators who use marine gyrocompasses  (which rely on a rotating earth), and whose length of routes would be greatly changed,
surveyors who use gyro-theodolites for underground direction determination,
all those in the satellite TV and satellite communication industry, etc
down to those using satellite data which simply could not be feasibly collected any other way.

Yes, this conspiracy would have to be far wider than are prepared to admit.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 05:01:19 PM »
Quote
Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Yes, but the big picture you seem to be missing is every government around the world would have to be in on it too. Russia and China are literally threatening a war with the United States at this moment, but yeah they're still down to hide the true shape of the earth... That's not a completely insane argument at all...

Not to mention the various private companies others have already mentioned, also in very many countries.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 06:26:29 PM »
Quote
Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.

Yes, but the big picture you seem to be missing is every government around the world would have to be in on it too. Russia and China are literally threatening a war with the United States at this moment, but yeah they're still down to hide the true shape of the earth... That's not a completely insane argument at all...

Not to mention the various private companies others have already mentioned, also in very many countries.
And all of that only to ask a simple question:

Why?

This supposed cover up serves no purpose. "Guys, we need to spend all these money to be the most powerful actor in the war" - People wouldn't mind.

Theres literally 0 points in making up a globe earth.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 08:20:07 PM »
I would ask: What's the simplest explanation: That all of the governments and now most of the private corporations of the world are spending trillions of dollars to maintain a hoax and of the hundreds of thousands of people involved in this cover up, not a single person has leaked so much as a single document/photo/video outing the conspiracy, or that the earth really is round as almost all of our technology, science and day to day function relies on?
Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to. They sure seem perfectly capable of conducting large compartmentalized projects involving tens of thousands of people without everyone needing Top Secret clearance, and also keeping said Top Secret technologies off of the internet. Try to find some designs for the stealth bombers sometime.
Yeah, just the government. And airline companies. And shipping companies. And broadcast network companies. And probably most geologists, astronomers, and meteorologists. Quite a few aerospace companies. And, and, and...

They are merely mistaken.

Yup, they did well with the whole Snowden thing.

The Obama administration is allowing it to happen, for whatever agenda...

I like how Tom argues that it is a massive global conspiracy orchestrated by the government, and that they are "merely mistaken" about the shape of the world in the same post.

George

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 08:29:30 PM »
What the conspiracy is doing is faking space travel and exploration, not pretending that the earth is round.  There's a huge difference.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 08:34:52 PM »
What the conspiracy is doing is faking space travel and exploration, not pretending that the earth is round.  There's a huge difference.
Fine, let's attack that angle for a second then (because looking at FET, space travel and exploration, and the shape of the earth is tightly connected) :

What's the purpose of faking space travel then? Am I to assume that you're referring to military budgets?
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 11:28:51 PM »
What the conspiracy is doing is faking space travel and exploration, not pretending that the earth is round.  There's a huge difference.

If you go back to grepico's comment, Tom was defending the idea of a massive cover up of the shape of the earth. But I understand your point. Honestly though, as implausible as the idea of a global cover-up conspiracy is, I find it waaay more plausible than Tom's theory that everyone is "merely mistaken".

Seriously, how on earth is it possible to run an international airline without realizing that all your maps are wrong? Do they just reach their destination by blind luck? Thousands of times per day?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 11:30:42 PM by TotesNotReptilian »

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2016, 12:57:45 AM »
Actually the simplest explanation is that the government could keep a secret if it really wanted to.

whoops, it happened again

it's amazing that no one ever uncovers any documents related to nasa's frauds.  it's almost unbelievable...
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

George

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2016, 01:01:19 AM »
Why would they document their own fraud?  They've been at this a while.  It stands to reason they're good at keeping it all a secret.

Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2016, 01:34:58 AM »
Why would they document their own fraud?

a reasonable question, but one that would apply to any criminal conspiracy.  it's especially difficult to see how a conspiracy of this scale could take place without some communication about the conspiracy between its members.

Quote
They've been at this a while.  It stands to reason they're good at keeping it all a secret.

this assumes the truth of the conclusion: whether or not they've been at this awhile, or at all, is what we're after.  that's fine if the assumption has great explanatory power, but in this case it hasn't.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Offline Nostra

  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2016, 05:30:34 AM »
Why would they document their own fraud?  They've been at this a while.  It stands to reason they're good at keeping it all a secret.

OK! You guys are always telling about how the NASA is keeping secret and all. But what is your opinion about the other space agencies? I know that many of you believe that NASA is the only space agency in the world, but, well... Do you know that there are more than 70 of them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

NASA was not even the first space agency founded...

Let's accept for a second that NASA is lying to the whole world  ::) . Could you please explain how is it possible that all the others do the same? Don't you think, in the present geopolitic, that many countries (including, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea among many others) would be soooooo happy to prove the world that the USA are mistaken, or worst, are hidding global secret? Because all of these countries have the launch capability to send rocket in space and to put satellite on orbit... So many of them should have discovered yet that the Earth eventually is not a globe. But guess what? No one have, and guess why? Well, it's quite easy, the Earth is a globe!

Thinking that only NASA is worthy to discredit, is really a proof that you guys are 1) Americans and 2) completely unaware of the real world you are living in (but this may be linked to the first point, idk)
Proud to be the 1 other!

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1436
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: My conclusion.
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2016, 10:20:40 PM »
I have two words on the "conspiracy" Snowden and Assange.