Genuine Question
« on: September 20, 2016, 03:49:58 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,

geckothegeek

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 04:42:41 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,

Flat earthers do not regard photographs as proof or evidence of anything. They would just say that any photograph showing the earth was round  was photoshopped, taken with a wide angle lens, et cetera , et cetera, and so forth.

I , too, honestly didn't believe that there were people who believed the earth was flat until I came across this website quite by accident some time ago.

I can see why maybe a person who lived in a very flat "flatland" and had never been more than a few miles from home and had  never studiied geography might believe that the earth was flat. But some of us "round earthers" who have studied and observed that the earth is the globe that it is, do wonder why anyone would even think, much less believe, that the earth was flat. There are even some people who are of the opinion that these flat earth websites and The Flat Earth Society  is a  "spoof."  One source put it (Quote) " One big hoax or one big joke."
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 05:09:00 PM by geckothegeek »

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 04:52:35 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,
I did just that. Not even with a gopro, but with a open source camera (raspberry pi). I still do that a lot (hobby of mine), but those images are refuted as proof, for a number of reasons. Lens aberration, fisheye perspective (even if it's not), the edge of the disc, whatever.

Unless you can supply a unedited recent photo of the earth as a full sphere, the earth is still flat to them.

We tried with photos from the himawari project, that snaps a full earth photo every 30 minutes. It's written off as a composite image (which all digital images are). So you see, the excuses are full circle, even though I haven't seen a single effort to actually send up a balloon (cheap) has been made by a FE believer.

However, the constantly referenced dogCam video by a FE believer is regarded as a proof of flat earth, even though the video is recorded in a semi fisheye perspective. There's no winning.

I highly recommend that you read "Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe Conspiracy Theories" - You'll learn that being rational with conspiracy theorists changes nothing.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

geckothegeek

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 05:15:27 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,
I did just that. Not even with a gopro, but with a open source camera (raspberry pi). I still do that a lot (hobby of mine), but those images are refuted as proof, for a number of reasons. Lens aberration, fisheye perspective (even if it's not), the edge of the disc, whatever.

Unless you can supply a unedited recent photo of the earth as a full sphere, the earth is still flat to them.

We tried with photos from the himawari project, that snaps a full earth photo every 30 minutes. It's written off as a composite image (which all digital images are). So you see, the excuses are full circle, even though I haven't seen a single effort to actually send up a balloon (cheap) has been made by a FE believer.

However, the constantly referenced dogCam video by a FE believer is regarded as a proof of flat earth, even though the video is recorded in a semi fisheye perspective. There's no winning.

I highly recommend that you read "Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe Conspiracy Theories" - You'll learn that being rational with conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

I also read a book which had this (Quote). "Conspiracies Theories are invented because some people will not believe that 'things just happen ' ".

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 12:43:26 AM »
Shalom and welcome to the forum.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

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Offline CableDawg

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 08:02:27 AM »
I would amend GTG's comment to flat earthers do not regard photographs as evidence for or proof of anything unless the photograph supports their theory.  One prolific FE poster has even used animated GIFs to support his theory of bendy light.

Aside from that, I've asked a similar question regarding the ice wall.  Why have they never mounted an expedition to map and measure the ice wall?

The clearest, most rational answer I can come to as to why they don't pursue actual proof of their ideas is that what they would quickly be proved wrong if they ever actually tried.

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 05:43:53 PM »
.... because they don't believe in science, mathematics, logic, common sense, ...

Offline Bzz

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 05:54:40 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,

"at very reasonable prices".

Like saying: spend your money to prove I'm wrong/right. Not fair, don't you think?

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 01:05:55 AM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,

"at very reasonable prices".

Like saying: spend your money to prove I'm wrong/right. Not fair, don't you think?

Well, I do feel like when you take a position that is easily a >1% minority opinion, then the burden of proof would fall on you.  Additionally, video and photographic evidence of a round earth is widely available in abundance so what is lacking is the video/photo evidence of the flat position, again it seems the burden of proof would be on you.

Imagine if I made the claim that elephants only walk on two legs, you would show me many pictures and videos of elephants walking on four legs and if my response was that all of that evidence was fake or tampered with, you would rightfully, demand my proof of my claim.  I think that's the same thing right?

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Offline Venus

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2016, 01:06:26 PM »
Hello all,

First, full disclosure.  I honestly didn't believe there were people that believed the Earth was flat when a friend told me so.  I came here and sure enough, apparently there are.

After reading this forum for about 2 hours, I am genuinely curious about something.  I want to be absolutely clear, I'm not being facetious or condescending, I'm genuinely asking this because I genuinely want to know the answer.  So here goes:

With the technology that's available at very reasonable prices (i.e. weather balloon and a go pro), it seems that you could simply find out for yourself with definitive certainty if the Earth was round or flat.  The red bull stratos video comes to mind.  So, the question:  Why not just do that?

I've seen a lot of posts that pose many different proofs using math and perspective, etc.  But it seems like the easiest proof would be to just send up a camera and look.

Again, I can't stress this enough.  I'm asking a serious question and I'm interested in a serious answer.  This is not any kind of troll or attempt to belittle your beliefs.

Thanks,

"at very reasonable prices".

Like saying: spend your money to prove I'm wrong/right. Not fair, don't you think?

Well, I do feel like when you take a position that is easily a >1% minority opinion, then the burden of proof would fall on you.  Additionally, video and photographic evidence of a round earth is widely available in abundance so what is lacking is the video/photo evidence of the flat position, again it seems the burden of proof would be on you.

Imagine if I made the claim that elephants only walk on two legs, you would show me many pictures and videos of elephants walking on four legs and if my response was that all of that evidence was fake or tampered with, you would rightfully, demand my proof of my claim.  I think that's the same thing right?

They don't even believe those of us in the Southern Hemisphere when we tell them we cannot see Polaris !!
An observable fact which they either ignore, or refuse to believe.



And even though the Himawari8 photos are NOT composite... one taken every 10 minutes from 22,000km above the equator and uploaded to the internet in real time, they still claim they are apparently all CGI ... which would mean thousands of CGI artists and hundreds of thousands of people all over the Asia Pacific region to call in what the cloud cover looks like every 10 minutes, cos I can look out my window at any time of the day and confirm the cloud cover on the latest Himawari photo!
http://himawari8.nict.go.jp/

And of course all those old astronomers that lived before NASA was even created in 1958 and who all knew the earth was a sphere ... Aristarchus, Eratosthenes, Aristotle, Plato, Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, etc etc etc ... well obviously NASA must have invented a Time Machine to go back in time to bribe them all to say that the earth was a sphere ... although of course they've never really landed a man on the moon.

And then there's the 14,225 photos taken during the Apollo missions which were all taken on cameras with film which had to be processed, when CGI was not possible ... yep all taken in a studio or faked or painted in some way !!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/

Then there are the flights in the Southern Hemisphere eg Sydney to Santiago or Sydney to Johannesburg ... flights which would take twice as long if the earth was flat with the north pole in the middle and the antarctic all around the edge. They deny these flights even happen.

Then there is the availability of flights, cruises and overland expeditions over Antarctica and to the South Pole, and the fact that around 40,000 tourists and researchers and support staff visit Antarctica each year ... all lies they say, Antarctica is guarded by NASA and nobody can go near the "edge". Nobody has ever seen the "ice wall" but they claim it is there !!

Then there is the fact that they can't come up with a map ... the one they have totally distorts continents and oceans the further south these countries and continents are located. This should be the easiest thing in the world to create, because IF the earth was flat then creating a map should be incredibly straightforward. The reason the Gleason Projection is so distorted is because it is a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional earth.

Then there is the sunset and sunrises at the spring and autumn equinoxes, when it is observable that every place along a particular longitude will have sunrise and sunset at the same time... but if the sun is a spotlight then it will shine a circular light on the earth, which means that the sun will NOT rise or set at the same time for any given longitude.

And then there is the outright misunderstanding that you would even expect to see curvature at sea level if you are on a massive sphere ...  I have posed the question "if you were on a sphere what would you expect to see if you could see the horizon in all directions and you rotated a 360 degree circle... would you expect it to go down each side and then come back up again as you finished your 360 degree rotation? If you did you would probably be on a massive cylinder ... none of them apparently can think in 3 dimensions, or imagine the vastness of our earth.

Plus no gravity, the earth is apparently flying "up" at 9.8 m/s (not even their unit is correct as gravity is measure on the surface of the earth as 9.8 m/s2
But obviously they need some way to explain why apples fall off trees and don't fly off into the atmosphere (which they call the atmoplane!)

Then their is the total lack of predictions that can be made using the flat earth model ! As you are no doubt aware every scientific theory should be able to make predictions, but I've yet to see the flat earthers' calculations for predictions of the next total solar eclipse for any particular place on earth eg Northern America, or the transits of Venus, Mars or Mercury, or the alignment of the visible planets. They claim that we can only predict eclipses because they occur at regular intervals, but in reality they are calculated using the fact that our earth is spherical in a heliocentric solar system http://www.eclipse2017.org/2017/path_through_the_US.htm

It has been pointed out to them that they could write a paper outlining the observations, experiments, and predictions made using calculations derived from the flat earth model and their proposed theory of a flat earth and have it peer reviewed, published in a respectable scientific journal and probably win a Nobel Prize... but no... claims of "all the scientists in the world are in on the conspiracy and would not allow the paper to be published"

Then there is the big question ... why are "they" trying to "hide" the flat earth reality from us, and how many millions of people would be needed to keep the spherical earth "lie" alive ???

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head ...

Welcome to the craziness !! I largely blame the free availability of an "education" from the UToob College of Conspiracy and the Diplomas of Ignorance that it hands out to anyone who is gullible enough !!!!

But none of them will ever change their mind ... because that would mean admitting you were wrong... plus two "science" books - one written 2000 years ago and another written in 1881 just have to be more accurate than our current knowledge of astrophysics, much of which has been discovered using technologies which were not even invented in 1881 !!
Because I live on the 'bottom' of a spinning spherical earth ...
*I cannot see Polaris, but I can see the Southern Cross
*When I look at the stars they appear to rotate clockwise, not anti-clockwise
*I see the moon 'upside down'
I've travelled to the Northern Hemisphere numerous times ... and seen how different the stars and the moon are 'up' there!
Come on down and check it out FE believers... !!

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2016, 02:25:50 PM »
They don't even believe those of us in the Southern Hemisphere when we tell them we cannot see Polaris !!
Who is this "they" of which you speak? Could I see some quotes? I can't say I've seen any of us deny such basic facts before.

Then there are the flights in the Southern Hemisphere eg Sydney to Santiago or Sydney to Johannesburg ... flights which would take twice as long if the earth was flat with the north pole in the middle and the antarctic all around the edge. They deny these flights even happen.
Sorry, that's completely untrue. Again, I doubt you've met anyone here who denied that these flights happen.

Then there is the sunset and sunrises at the spring and autumn equinoxes, when it is observable that every place along a particular longitude will have sunrise and sunset at the same time... but if the sun is a spotlight then it will shine a circular light on the earth, which means that the sun will NOT rise or set at the same time for any given longitude.
Please learn at least the very basics of FET before trying to discuss them. Making your own version of the Flat Earth and then debunking it is what we usually call a "straw man".

Plus no gravity, the earth is apparently flying "up" at 9.8 m/s (not even their unit is correct as gravity is measure on the surface of the earth as 9.8 m/s2
So, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, allow me to reiterate: you're making shit up. No FES member has ever suggested that the Earth is moving upwards at a constant speed of 9.8m/s. It's in our FAQ. Read it.

Then there is the big question ... why are "they" trying to "hide" the flat earth reality from us, and how many millions of people would be needed to keep the spherical earth "lie" alive
Have you tried reading the Wiki? There's a whole article about this, you know. You pose some of the most frequently asked, boring, tired questions, except you pose them up as "the big question!!1!"

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head ...
Yes, now if you substitute "the top of your head" with some actual literature, you might be able to ask better questions.

two "science" books - one written 2000 years ago
Nice Bible reference, but we're not a religious organisation.

It sounds like you're either:
  • making shit up, or
  • confusing random YouTubers (many of which consider the Flat Earth Society to be a bunch of no-good heretics) with the Flat Earth Society

In either case, you're being very presumptuous. Not a single thing you've said here has anything to do with what this Society believes. If you have an issue with what someone else has said, why don't you raise it with them instead of wasting everyone's time here?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2016, 03:06:00 PM »
They don't even believe those of us in the Southern Hemisphere when we tell them we cannot see Polaris !!
Who is this "they" of which you speak? Could I see some quotes? I can't say I've seen any of us deny such basic facts before.

Then there are the flights in the Southern Hemisphere eg Sydney to Santiago or Sydney to Johannesburg ... flights which would take twice as long if the earth was flat with the north pole in the middle and the antarctic all around the edge. They deny these flights even happen.
Sorry, that's completely untrue. Again, I doubt you've met anyone here who denied that these flights happen.

Then there is the sunset and sunrises at the spring and autumn equinoxes, when it is observable that every place along a particular longitude will have sunrise and sunset at the same time... but if the sun is a spotlight then it will shine a circular light on the earth, which means that the sun will NOT rise or set at the same time for any given longitude.
Please learn at least the very basics of FET before trying to discuss them. Making your own version of the Flat Earth and then debunking it is what we usually call a "straw man".

Plus no gravity, the earth is apparently flying "up" at 9.8 m/s (not even their unit is correct as gravity is measure on the surface of the earth as 9.8 m/s2
So, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, allow me to reiterate: you're making shit up. No FES member has ever suggested that the Earth is moving upwards at a constant speed of 9.8m/s. It's in our FAQ. Read it.

Then there is the big question ... why are "they" trying to "hide" the flat earth reality from us, and how many millions of people would be needed to keep the spherical earth "lie" alive
Have you tried reading the Wiki? There's a whole article about this, you know. You pose some of the most frequently asked, boring, tired questions, except you pose them up as "the big question!!1!"

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head ...
Yes, now if you substitute "the top of your head" with some actual literature, you might be able to ask better questions.

two "science" books - one written 2000 years ago
Nice Bible reference, but we're not a religious organisation.

It sounds like you're either:
  • making shit up, or
  • confusing random YouTubers (many of which consider the Flat Earth Society to be a bunch of no-good heretics) with the Flat Earth Society

In either case, you're being very presumptuous. Not a single thing you've said here has anything to do with what this Society believes. If you have an issue with what someone else has said, why don't you raise it with them instead of wasting everyone's time here?
Why don't you, as a flat earth believer and an admin, answer the OP instead of attacking those who actually replied?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2016, 03:41:59 PM »
Why don't you, as a flat earth believer and an admin
I'm not an admin. What is it with you RE'ers never getting things right?

And even if I were an admin, how on Earth would that matter? Answering people's questions is not an admin task.

answer the OP instead of attacking those who actually replied?
Two reasons:
  • Priorities. Fighting back against slanderous remarks is much more important to me than answering the same question multiple times.
  • The question has already been answered pretty well by somebody else. What good would it do if I said the same thing?

"at very reasonable prices".

Like saying: spend your money to prove I'm wrong/right. Not fair, don't you think?

Besides, you know very well that I personally supported and encouraged people to support a similar initiative. I'm sure you remember it well because you took a lot of your time to try and troll that specific thread.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2016, 03:47:05 PM »
Why don't you, as a flat earth believer and an admin
I'm not an admin. What is it with you RE'ers never getting things right?


Fair enough, my mistake. That rethorical question does smell a bit like sweet irony though. :)
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Offline cel

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2016, 02:32:36 AM »
As you asked "genuine question", well, let me give "genuine answer", how's that? Fair enough. After watching some FEs' videos, you're now as curious as other inquisitive people on topics about FE (or GE?). Well, keep it up! It's a good way to know what's going on and find the truth out there someday. Let me give you a simple analogy. These FEs and GEs debates now going on and becoming viral are all wanting to prove their own claims about earth, but some of them are just too narrow-minded and stubborn not to see that their opponents also have a valid point. The very reason why they keep on fighting, insulting, disrespecting, cursing, etc... You know, people behave badly under fictitious names. Dare them their true identity, and they'll curse no more... :)  Anyway, these FEs actually started it all long ago, decades or even centuries perhaps, and of course, GEs, including you and me in a way as we're taught or grew with GE science since we're young, could not just accept their claims, proofs, etc. as they don't conform to what GEs were made to believe eversince. So that's where the arguments and debates started.

Now, if you ask me if these FEs have a point. I would not be telling the truth if I say they don't. They have a point. But there those who are not really that serious as FEs, beware of them, they'll just confuse you more. Better be selective in getting your info about FE / GE issues. Of course, GEs are also like that, some of them. Well, we can really verify as we know also how science and GE work. If you watch FE videos and websites, you'll really ask questions because of their valid observations and supporting data for their claims, and we, or GEs, don't have all the convincing explanations plus the fact that there are fake or fraud incidents perpetrated by science or political people of the modern world. You know, this world is full of hidden agenda and political maneuvering that we just could not get to the truth in a silver platter. In fact, I see these GEs and FEs as both correct in their respective claims, only that they could not see that such that they insist that their claims are the only correct one, where in fact, both of them might have been right. You know, seeing the truth from different perspective or vantage point. The very reason why I encourage them to elevate their debates to a higher level to see the forest that they're looking at the same thing. This is the only way by which they can arrive at what's really the truth about earth. Keep asking questions about FE wrt to GE. As we know already about GE, know more about FE. We'll eventually arrive at the real truth out there someday... be one of the truth seekers then... :)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:37:31 AM by cel »
You may wish to decipher how many squares are there in the 4x4 matrix of my profile image. If you do, tell me! That way I can tell if you really have an imaginative/creative mind that knows how to think out of the box. If you got it right, you've got great potential of becoming a genuine Truth Seeker! Welcome then to the Truth Seeker's group!

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2016, 12:15:31 AM »
As you asked "genuine question", well, let me give "genuine answer", how's that? Fair enough. After watching some FEs' videos, you're now as curious as other inquisitive people on topics about FE (or GE?). Well, keep it up! It's a good way to know what's going on and find the truth out there someday. Let me give you a simple analogy. These FEs and GEs debates now going on and becoming viral are all wanting to prove their own claims about earth, but some of them are just too narrow-minded and stubborn not to see that their opponents also have a valid point. The very reason why they keep on fighting, insulting, disrespecting, cursing, etc... You know, people behave badly under fictitious names. Dare them their true identity, and they'll curse no more... :)  Anyway, these FEs actually started it all long ago, decades or even centuries perhaps, and of course, GEs, including you and me in a way as we're taught or grew with GE science since we're young, could not just accept their claims, proofs, etc. as they don't conform to what GEs were made to believe eversince. So that's where the arguments and debates started.

Now, if you ask me if these FEs have a point. I would not be telling the truth if I say they don't. They have a point. But there those who are not really that serious as FEs, beware of them, they'll just confuse you more. Better be selective in getting your info about FE / GE issues. Of course, GEs are also like that, some of them. Well, we can really verify as we know also how science and GE work. If you watch FE videos and websites, you'll really ask questions because of their valid observations and supporting data for their claims, and we, or GEs, don't have all the convincing explanations plus the fact that there are fake or fraud incidents perpetrated by science or political people of the modern world. You know, this world is full of hidden agenda and political maneuvering that we just could not get to the truth in a silver platter. In fact, I see these GEs and FEs as both correct in their respective claims, only that they could not see that such that they insist that their claims are the only correct one, where in fact, both of them might have been right. You know, seeing the truth from different perspective or vantage point. The very reason why I encourage them to elevate their debates to a higher level to see the forest that they're looking at the same thing. This is the only way by which they can arrive at what's really the truth about earth. Keep asking questions about FE wrt to GE. As we know already about GE, know more about FE. We'll eventually arrive at the real truth out there someday... be one of the truth seekers then... :)

You long paragraphs are very hard to read, especially on the screen of a tablet.

Especially as you seem to ramble on ( ;) I thought that was my prerogative  ;)) without ever seeming to get anywhere.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2016, 02:50:39 AM »
Well, I do feel like when you take a position that is easily a >1% minority opinion, then the burden of proof would fall on you.  Additionally, video and photographic evidence of a round earth is widely available in abundance so what is lacking is the video/photo evidence of the flat position, again it seems the burden of proof would be on you.

Imagine if I made the claim that elephants only walk on two legs, you would show me many pictures and videos of elephants walking on four legs and if my response was that all of that evidence was fake or tampered with, you would rightfully, demand my proof of my claim.  I think that's the same thing right?

Most people in the world also believe that there is a magical fairy in the sky that grants wishes... should the existence of this fairy be taken for granted as fact until proven otherwise simply because most people believe it?

In actuality if you want evidence of a Flat Earth you simply need to look out your window. If you want evidence of a Round Earth you need to take the military's word for it. Our evidence is very real and direct, while the RE evidence requires a leap of trust and a leap of faith. Just because most people share this faith does not put the burden of proof on us. The claim of a Round Earth is a positive claim in the face of contradicting evidence, and therefore the burden is on the Round Earther to prove that position.

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2016, 04:13:12 AM »
In actuality if you want evidence of a Flat Earth you simply need to look out your window. If you want evidence of a Round Earth you need to take the military's word for it.

How do you even say this with a straight face? (In my mind I picture you exactly like your profile picture, so I just assume you have a perpetually straight face with a slightly raised eyebrow.) I have personally posted quite a bit of very straightforward evidence that requires absolutely no trust in the military. Others have posted tons of evidence as well that requires no trust in the military. Have you not browsed the forums recently?

On the other hand, the evidence for a flat earth begins and ends with "look out your window". The fact that you even consider this evidence is just evidence of your own personal bias. Any rational person would realize that the earth is way too big to notice any horizontal curvature at ground level, regardless of whether it is round or flat.

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2016, 04:18:01 AM »
So, the question:  Why not just do that?
--- because it is unnecessary. 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

Re: Genuine Question
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2016, 06:47:18 AM »
Well, I do feel like when you take a position that is easily a >1% minority opinion, then the burden of proof would fall on you.  Additionally, video and photographic evidence of a round earth is widely available in abundance so what is lacking is the video/photo evidence of the flat position, again it seems the burden of proof would be on you.

Imagine if I made the claim that elephants only walk on two legs, you would show me many pictures and videos of elephants walking on four legs and if my response was that all of that evidence was fake or tampered with, you would rightfully, demand my proof of my claim.  I think that's the same thing right?

Most people in the world also believe that there is a magical fairy in the sky that grants wishes... should the existence of this fairy be taken for granted as fact until proven otherwise simply because most people believe it?

In actuality if you want evidence of a Flat Earth you simply need to look out your window. If you want evidence of a Round Earth you need to take the military's word for it. Our evidence is very real and direct, while the RE evidence requires a leap of trust and a leap of faith. Just because most people share this faith does not put the burden of proof on us. The claim of a Round Earth is a positive claim in the face of contradicting evidence, and therefore the burden is on the Round Earther to prove that position.
I look out the window each day and see the sun setting and know someone further to the east sees it occuring later.  Measuring the angle of the sun from different locations at different times proves a round earth, as you know.