Offline Nostra

  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Private space companies
« on: August 19, 2016, 01:10:34 PM »
Firstly, I would like to apologize as my english will probably not be perfect.

I am an European engineer, working for a private company that manufactures rocket engine for Ariane 5 launcher. Every day, I wake up and go to work to help manufacturing, testing and developing rocket engines, as thousands of my coworkers. We do not only manufacture rocket engine, but we also adjust each one to be compliant with the technical specification for each mission (mainly commercial mission), based on calculation of the payload, final orbit...) to assure that the trajectory will be compliant with the requirements.
Ariane 5 launchers put into orbit many telecommunication satellites that any of you use every day when using television, GPS (or soon European Galileo), phone, weather forecast and so on... Even if this is just words written on the Internet, I can assure you that rocket engine and rocket as well as satellites are real. I see them almost everyday.
If the Earth was flat as you think, all this work, as well as all the money spent to engage so many people into this lie, would be a pure loss.

So my question is why on (round) earth would so many private companies (Engine/rocket/satellite... manufacturers) be wasting so much money (and we are talking of tens of billions of euro/dollars per year) for something that is not working?

Furthermore, I would like to react to some assessments I read about the fact that rocket technologies are secret and controlled. Do you know that NASA went public about all the researched made during the 60's and 70's? I invit you to search for "NASA SP" + "whatever rocket part you like" (for example : http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710025474.pdf?bcsi_scan_3885ef0befb2eb28=1&bcsi_scan_cb895f69027bc0de=1&bcsi_scan_023d54aa8e2e45f6=0&bcsi_scan_filename=19710025474.pdf). With all this information, you will have all the necessary information to build a rocket if you would like to (and have enough money for it). Well, OK, not maybe the last and most efficient one, but at least something comparable to the one from the 60's...
Proud to be the 1 other!

Offline Nostra

  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 02:25:16 PM »
I am a bit disappointed that no one provided me an answer. My question may have been not clear enough. I will try another approach :

We will take the example of a TV satellite :

1) A private satellite TV company think it would be profitable to have a new HD TV channels => It orders a private satellite to a satellite manufacturer with some requirements to fulfill
2) The private satellite manufacturer realize the satellite and sell it with margin
3) A private rocket launcher sell with margin a launch to place the satellite in the good trajectory (generally geostationnary transfert orbit, the satellite perform the circularisation of the orbit itself)
4) A private rocket manufacturer sell with margin a dedicated launcher to the rocket launcher company
5) A private technician come to your home with a satellite dish (bought, with margin to a dish manufacturer) and install it on your roof, pointed it in the sky, directly where the satellite is.
6) You can watch the superbowl in HD by paying the satellite TV company.

All the people involved in this chain are private, no government entities. Each one of them earn money by selling a product linked with the satellite. If the Earth was not round, then all of the above would collapse, except if tens of millions of people (at least) around the world where part of the conspiracy (and good luck to keep secret an information shared by several millions of people!), because without the round earth, the satellite would not work (because design to operate in a round earth environment), the rocket would not work because design to work in a round earth environment, the satellite dish would not work because design to receive data from the satellite, and finally, your brand-new TV channel subscription would not work and hundreds of millions of people all around the world would be very angry not to be able to watch what they are paying for. All private companies involved would bankrupt pretty fast and ten of millions of people would lose their job.

So I would like to know where is the flaw in this argument. I hope someone will indicates me my mistake!




Proud to be the 1 other!

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6519
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 10:20:24 PM »
The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles.

A contracting company building a rocket for NASA isn't evidence of anything. The rockets used are real.

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 12:11:00 AM »
So I would like to know where is the flaw in this argument. I hope someone will indicates me my mistake!
Define "private" in your "argument" and you will see your mistake yourself. 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

*

Offline Rounder

  • *
  • Posts: 779
  • What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 04:18:28 AM »
So I would like to know where is the flaw in this argument. I hope someone will indicates me my mistake!
Define "private" in your "argument" and you will see your mistake yourself.
It would be easier if you just tell us what mistake was made, rather than asking the person who made the mistake to try and figure it out on theor own.  The person who made the mistake is unlikely to suddenly un-make it, since you've provided them with no new information.
Proud member of İntikam's "Ignore List"
Ok. You proven you are unworthy to unignored. You proven it was a bad idea to unignore you. and it was for me a disgusting experience...Now you are going to place where you deserved and accustomed.
Quote from: SexWarrior
You accuse {FE} people of malice where incompetence suffice

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 07:56:22 AM »
The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles.

A contracting company building a rocket for NASA isn't evidence of anything. The rockets used are real.
Please explain how the angle of satellite dishes proves the location of satellites.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1436
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 10:52:09 PM »
The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles.

A contracting company building a rocket for NASA isn't evidence of anything. The rockets used are real.

You claim "The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles."

To make such a categorical statement you must show solid evidence.

Or is "Tom Bishop said so!" now to be regarded as unchallengeable?

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 08:42:00 PM »
The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles.

A contracting company building a rocket for NASA isn't evidence of anything. The rockets used are real.

GPS does not come from ground based antennas, that would be satellites. I can provide plenty of sources, can you?

Offline Nostra

  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 10:41:38 AM »
The signals are deployed through an assortment of terrestrial methods, such as ground based antennas and stratellite dirigibles.

The way you said it seems like a certitude for you... Can you proove it?

A contracting company building a rocket for NASA isn't evidence of anything. The rockets used are real.

First of all I am not working for NASA. But I think it can be easy for you to tell that any space organization is lying to us. Be they Russian, European, Indian, Brazilian, Japanese, Israelian or Chinese... This is obviously a profound flaw in the understanding of the global geopolitics, but whatever...

You didn't answer by question. Why would private companies spent billions of dollars per year to build something useless that can be achieved by making ground tower?
Proud to be the 1 other!

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 07:55:01 AM »
Tell me how you'd achieve this with ground towers, please.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 11:13:16 PM »
Even if this is just words written on the Internet, I can assure you that rocket engine and rocket as well as satellites are real. I see them almost everyday.
Who are the clients of this "private" company?   

If the Earth was flat as you think, all this work, as well as all the money spent to engage so many people into this lie, would be a pure loss.
Oh, I get it! 
No "private" company benefits from lost money! 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

*

Offline Rounder

  • *
  • Posts: 779
  • What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 11:38:31 PM »
Oh, I get it! 
No "private" company benefits from lost money!

Some hypothetical company might benefit from the lost money of another company, maybe one who trades in security derivatives for example.  The real point here, which I think you are smart enough to have understood (correct me if I'm wrong and you're simply too stupid) is that the company claiming/pretending to launch and operate satellites would not benefit from continuing to throw money into the ocean.  I mean, if all satellite launches are fake, that must be what's happening: actual physical rockets are being built (people see them), actual engine burns at ground level are occurring (again, witnesses), actual physical hardware is leaving the launch pad and flying out of sight, and from there they must be blowing up or splashing down intact. 
Take Intelsat for example.  They are currently claimed to have 50+ satellites in orbit, 8 more on order, and satellite operations centers in eight locations with more than 300 dishes pointed at geosynchronous orbit.  Why would Intelsat do that, if space flight is fake?
Proud member of İntikam's "Ignore List"
Ok. You proven you are unworthy to unignored. You proven it was a bad idea to unignore you. and it was for me a disgusting experience...Now you are going to place where you deserved and accustomed.
Quote from: SexWarrior
You accuse {FE} people of malice where incompetence suffice

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2016, 02:00:07 PM »
Pretty soon space tourism will be widespread, what will your argument be then? Some people have already paid to go to space and the Space Station with a Russian company, here's a link:

http://www.spaceadventures.com/about-us/

A man named Dennis Tito paid $20 million for his trip, I seriously doubt he spent millions of dollars to pretend that he went to space.

Here's a couple links to other companies pretty close:

https://www.abqjournal.com/843457/bezos-new-rocket-built-for-space-tourism.html
https://www.manufacturing.net/news/2016/09/virgin-galactic-returns-skies-space-tourism-test

One day, maybe 10 to 20 years, going to space may be a similar price to flying across the world, I hope so anyway. Then anyone with doubts can just go up and look for themselves. I have also read articles stating some companies want to build "space hotels" that are in orbit, like the space station. 


George

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2016, 02:29:19 PM »
Yes, space tourism is right around the corner.  That's what they've been saying since the 1960s.  Any day now...any day now...

The small handful of civilians who have supposedly already been to space are an easily-controllable number.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9922
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2016, 03:00:22 PM »
Yes, space tourism is right around the corner.  That's what they've been saying since the 1960s.  Any day now...any day now...
But this time it's totally for real!
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

*

Offline markjo

  • Purgatory
  • *
  • Posts: 3840
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 03:11:01 PM »
Yes, space tourism is right around the corner.  That's what they've been saying since the 1960s.  Any day now...any day now...
But this time it's totally for real!
Yes, it was totally for real for the 7 tourists who (claim to) have gone to space already.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

George

Re: Private space companies
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2016, 06:35:27 PM »
Seven is a small, controllable number.  It's certainly not what most people think of when "tourism" is mentioned.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 9922
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2016, 08:52:58 AM »
(claim to)
You pretty much wrote my response for me.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

*

Offline markjo

  • Purgatory
  • *
  • Posts: 3840
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2016, 06:41:36 PM »
(claim to)
You pretty much wrote my response for me.
Yes, in much the same way you claim to be an FE'er.  :P
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1436
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Private space companies
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2016, 11:17:18 PM »
Private Company Satellite Launches

Quote from: Wikipedia

Launch contract competitive results
Before 2014
Arianespace has dominated the commercial launch market for many years. "In 2004, for example, they held over 50% of the world market."

  • 2010: 26 geostationary commercial satellites were ordered under long-term launch contracts.

  • 2011: Only 17 geostationary commercial satellites went under contract during 2011 as an "historically large capital spending surge by the biggest satellite fleet operators" began to tail off, something that had been anticipated to follow the various satellite fleets being substantially upgraded.

  • 2012: As of September 2012, the major launch providers globally were Arianespace (France), International Launch Services (United States) which markets the Russian Proton launch vehicle, and Sea Launch of Switzerland which markets the Russian-Ukrainian Zenit rocket. In late 2012, each of them had manifests that were "full or nearly so for both 2012 and 2013."

  • 23 geostationary orbit communications satellites were placed under firm contract during 2013.

2014
A total of 20 launches were booked in 2014 for commercial launch service providers. 19 were for flights to geostationary orbit (GEO), one was for a low-Earth orbit (LEO) launch.
Arianespace and SpaceX each signed nine contracts for geostationary launches, while Mitsubishi Heavy Industries was awarded one. United Launch Alliance signed one commercial contract to launch an Orbital Sciences Corporation Cygnus spacecraft to the LEO-orbiting International Space Station following the destruction over the pad of an Orbital Antares vehicle in October 2014. This was the first year in some time that no commercial launches were booked on the Russian (Proton-M) and Russian-Ukrainian (Zenit) launch service providers.
For perspective, eight additional satellites in 2014 were booked "by national launch providers in deals for which no competitive bids were sought."
Overall in 2014 Arianespace took 60% of commercial launch market share.


2015
Overall in 2015, Arianespace signed 14 commercial-order launch contracts for geosynchronous-orbit commsats, while SpaceX received only 9, with International Launch Services (Proton) and United Launch Alliance signing one contract each. In addition, Arianespace signed their largest launch contract ever—for 21 LEO launches for OneWeb using the Europeanized Russian Soyuz launch vehicle launching from the ESA spaceport—and two Vega smallsat launches.
In a 2015 US competition for a (no earlier than 2017 but possibly planned for 2018 as of November 2015) US military launch to loft the first of the third-generation GPS III satellites into orbit, ULA—after having held a government-sanctioned monopoly on US military launches for the previous decade—declined to even submit a bid, thereby leaving the likely contract award winner to be SpaceX, the only other domestic US-provider of launch services to be certified as usable by the US military.

From: Space launch market competition.

Some were for military purposes and paid for by the US Government (or maybe other governments), but many are for purely commercial purposes - mainly DBS TV services. A group of satellite TV companies  form a consortium to launch satellites for use by the members of the consortium, thus sharing the launch costs - and risks.