behrad

About the Sun
« on: March 16, 2016, 02:42:41 PM »
Hello fellow truthseekers,

I have found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth, but what about the Sun? Do we know its origin? Its composition? And where does the light and heat come from?

Thanks! Hope this isn't a redundant post.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 05:38:16 PM »
Well there was a thread similar to this one.
Not much explanation were given from the flat Earthers, other than sandokhan's usual ramble about the faint young Sun paradox.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2016, 05:45:40 AM »
Hello fellow truthseekers,

I have found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth, but what about the Sun? Do we know its origin? Its composition? And where does the light and heat come from?

Thanks! Hope this isn't a redundant post.

The origin and interior of the sun are unknown.

behrad

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 08:33:56 AM »
Hello fellow truthseekers,

I have found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth, but what about the Sun? Do we know its origin? Its composition? And where does the light and heat come from?

Thanks! Hope this isn't a redundant post.

The origin and interior of the sun are unknown.

That's not good enough man. If you don't know the answer don't just reply saying you don't know, and stop wasting my time. Does anyone in this society actually have any information on the sun?

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 12:58:23 PM »

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 03:16:19 PM »
Hello fellow truthseekers,

I have found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth, but what about the Sun? Do we know its origin? Its composition? And where does the light and heat come from?

Thanks! Hope this isn't a redundant post.

The origin and interior of the sun are unknown.

That's not good enough man. If you don't know the answer don't just reply saying you don't know, and stop wasting my time. Does anyone in this society actually have any information on the sun?

Does anyone actually "know?" There's hypotheses, but you tell me how one could ever test them. It's not just this society, cosmologists can only make assumptions as well.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 06:39:16 PM »
You can actually tell a lot "just" by analyzing the different wavelengths emitted, and compare those results with what you can reproduce in a lab.
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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 06:55:05 PM »
You can actually tell a lot "just" by analyzing the different wavelengths emitted, and compare those results with what you can reproduce in a lab.

He asked if anyone knows it's origin, what it's made of, and what it's heat source is.

Not what can we observe about the sun. Please link me to your lab results where people in a lab reproduced a sun.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016, 07:20:42 PM »
You can actually tell a lot "just" by analyzing the different wavelengths emitted, and compare those results with what you can reproduce in a lab.

He asked if anyone knows it's origin, what it's made of, and what it's heat source is.

Not what can we observe about the sun. Please link me to your lab results where people in a lab reproduced a sun.

You can't directly observe what goes on inside a stars core, but by observing the star itself, observing other stars that are at a different stage in their lifespan, measuring the amounts of certain elements, and involve what we know about nuclear physics, you can deduce what must be happening.

Spectroscopy is a very precise means of measuring the chemical composition of a lot of things. The composition of the Sun (and all other stars for that matter) is determined from emission and absorption spectra, where each element will display their characteristic spectrum. It wont show you what generates the heat (as per above), but more what is giving off the heat. For example, helium was discovered on the Sun before it was discovered on Earth, hence the name.

Other physicists suggests observing helioseismology. I dont know much about this field though, but it's about observing the waves moving through the interior of the sun and get detailed information about pressure and density. Super computers are used today to model the outcome of set variables, based on how we know things behave under certain conditions.

EDIT: Elements from old emissions from the Sun were found in some of the soil brought back from the Moon (and here on Earth for that matter), but all of the above doesn't matter if you're set on the Moon landing was a hoax, and that the Eart is flat to begin with. Given these presumptions, asking questions is a waste of time since it requires a complete reformation of your belief-system (Read: Stop believing in misconceptions about our reality, and face the fact the Earth is a globe).

I know you're not set on flat or globe Earth, but in general, admitting you were wrong about the Earth being flat and our endeavours in space is very honourable if you ask me. Sticking with it because of pride is plain stupid. Nobody will mock you, and by moving on, you could spend your energy analyzing and fighting the myriad of problems we have as a global society because of bad leadership and lies, because these problems exists!

EDIT 2: Bonus links:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160128-how-do-we-know-what-stars-like-our-sun-are-made-of
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 07:30:54 PM by andruszkow »
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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016, 07:43:49 PM »
You can actually tell a lot "just" by analyzing the different wavelengths emitted, and compare those results with what you can reproduce in a lab.

He asked if anyone knows it's origin, what it's made of, and what it's heat source is.

Not what can we observe about the sun. Please link me to your lab results where people in a lab reproduced a sun.

You can't directly observe what goes on inside a stars core, but by observing the star itself, observing other stars that are at a different stage in their lifespan, measuring the amounts of certain elements, and involve what we know about nuclear physics, you can deduce what must be happening.

Spectroscopy is a very precise means of measuring the chemical composition of a lot of things. The composition of the Sun (and all other stars for that matter) is determined from emission and absorption spectra, where each element will display their characteristic spectrum. It wont show you what generates the heat (as per above), but more what is giving off the heat. For example, helium was discovered on the Sun before it was discovered on Earth, hence the name.

Other physicists suggests observing helioseismology. I dont know much about this field though, but it's about observing the waves moving through the interior of the sun and get detailed information about pressure and density. Super computers are used today to model the outcome of set variables, based on how we know things behave under certain conditions.

EDIT: Elements from old emissions from the Sun were found in some of the soil brought back from the Moon (and here on Earth for that matter), but all of the above doesn't matter if you're set on the Moon landing was a hoax, and that the Eart is flat to begin with. Given these presumptions, asking questions is a waste of time since it requires a complete reformation of your belief-system (Read: Stop believing in misconceptions about our reality, and face the fact the Earth is a globe).

I know you're not set on flat or globe Earth, but in general, admitting you were wrong about the Earth being flat and our endeavours in space is very honourable if you ask me. Sticking with it because of pride is plain stupid. Nobody will mock you, and by moving on, you could spend your energy analyzing and fighting the myriad of problems we have as a global society because of bad leadership and lies, because these problems exists!

EDIT 2: Bonus links:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160128-how-do-we-know-what-stars-like-our-sun-are-made-of
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html


Lol...  you say that you know that I don't advocate anything about the shape of earth, but I should just admit I'm wrong about whatever my particular view is regardless.

Even if the shape of the earth is unequivocally proven, one way or the other, I will never believe that the Apollo missions happened the way they said they did. There is a glut of information out there regarding the questionable circumstances surrounding the entirety of the missions, and you'd have to be the one neck deep in your own belief system to ignore it completely. Trust me there is no pride involved, I'm not proud at all of the state of the collective human mind in that it treats ideas and beliefs unpalatable to one's own with anger, ridicule, and contempt.

If the philosophers of old existed in today's age they would be constantly harassed and mocked and censored until they either contort their views with that of the mainstream or find themselves ostracized.

And the root of this thread is still unanswered. How did the Sun come to exist.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016, 08:41:59 PM »
You can actually tell a lot "just" by analyzing the different wavelengths emitted, and compare those results with what you can reproduce in a lab.

He asked if anyone knows it's origin, what it's made of, and what it's heat source is.

Not what can we observe about the sun. Please link me to your lab results where people in a lab reproduced a sun.

You can't directly observe what goes on inside a stars core, but by observing the star itself, observing other stars that are at a different stage in their lifespan, measuring the amounts of certain elements, and involve what we know about nuclear physics, you can deduce what must be happening.

Spectroscopy is a very precise means of measuring the chemical composition of a lot of things. The composition of the Sun (and all other stars for that matter) is determined from emission and absorption spectra, where each element will display their characteristic spectrum. It wont show you what generates the heat (as per above), but more what is giving off the heat. For example, helium was discovered on the Sun before it was discovered on Earth, hence the name.

Other physicists suggests observing helioseismology. I dont know much about this field though, but it's about observing the waves moving through the interior of the sun and get detailed information about pressure and density. Super computers are used today to model the outcome of set variables, based on how we know things behave under certain conditions.

EDIT: Elements from old emissions from the Sun were found in some of the soil brought back from the Moon (and here on Earth for that matter), but all of the above doesn't matter if you're set on the Moon landing was a hoax, and that the Eart is flat to begin with. Given these presumptions, asking questions is a waste of time since it requires a complete reformation of your belief-system (Read: Stop believing in misconceptions about our reality, and face the fact the Earth is a globe).

I know you're not set on flat or globe Earth, but in general, admitting you were wrong about the Earth being flat and our endeavours in space is very honourable if you ask me. Sticking with it because of pride is plain stupid. Nobody will mock you, and by moving on, you could spend your energy analyzing and fighting the myriad of problems we have as a global society because of bad leadership and lies, because these problems exists!

EDIT 2: Bonus links:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160128-how-do-we-know-what-stars-like-our-sun-are-made-of
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html


Lol...  you say that you know that I don't advocate anything about the shape of earth, but I should just admit I'm wrong about whatever my particular view is regardless.

Even if the shape of the earth is unequivocally proven, one way or the other, I will never believe that the Apollo missions happened the way they said they did. There is a glut of information out there regarding the questionable circumstances surrounding the entirety of the missions, and you'd have to be the one neck deep in your own belief system to ignore it completely. Trust me there is no pride involved, I'm not proud at all of the state of the collective human mind in that it treats ideas and beliefs unpalatable to one's own with anger, ridicule, and contempt.

If the philosophers of old existed in today's age they would be constantly harassed and mocked and censored until they either contort their views with that of the mainstream or find themselves ostracized.

And the root of this thread is still unanswered. How did the Sun come to exist.

I ment "you" in a general sense, not you personally :) Don't be so feisty, it'll only show that you're here for the sake of debate rather than for educational purposes.

The theory revolves around big bang. There's a lot of evidence in favor, yet still some against, mostly because it involves knowledge we just don't have yet.

So in a more philosophical sense, the answer is simply, we don't know. Given the composition of the stars, and the most common elements in everything (hydrogen, carbon, oxygen) including living organisms, we can at this point deduce that everything originates from a single event, which at this point is theorized as the big bang.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2016, 08:55:06 PM »
In this thread, we observe that it's perfectly fine for REers to not have all the answers, but still expected (by REers, of course) that FEers have a valid answer for every little aspect of the theory, or else we are "wasting time", and it's a severe blow against our theory.

Ladies and gentlemen, yet more evidence of the general hypocrisy of the RE mindset. Thanks for the demonstration, fellas!
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2016, 10:03:03 PM »
In this thread, we observe that it's perfectly fine for REers to not have all the answers, but still expected (by REers, of course) that FEers have a valid answer for every little aspect of the theory, or else we are "wasting time", and it's a severe blow against our theory.

Ladies and gentlemen, yet more evidence of the general hypocrisy of the RE mindset. Thanks for the demonstration, fellas!

I see your point, but I don't entirely agree. For the most part, the admittance to the fact that we don't know everything there is to know and probably never will (this goes for both RE'ers and FE'ers), RE'ers in here generally rely on evidence tested again and again through decades, even centuries, and are continuously being confirmed. Furthermore, the mindset of what you define as RE'ers is in general, that if there's something we don't know, we investigate.

FE'ers rely heavily on Rowbotham, and I'll even leave some credit for sandokhan here: He's 100% right when he states that the classic FE theory, including the one in the wiki, is shot down again and again even by RE'ers with a high-school level of RE understanding. His AFET seeks to address most of the issues. The problem is that sandokhan, and ONLY sandokhan, measure the success of his AFET in how many debates he has "won" on this site. The real issue is that it relies heavily on science that has been disproved ages ago. That his AFET is in line with the thought lines of the likes of Tesla, even brilliant men can be wrong, and aether physics as it is used in sandokhans AFET has no evidence to back it up. Sandokhans AFET itself only has the "numerous of victorious debates" in this very forum to brush off it's shoulders.

So, even if we agree that we're being stubborn on both sides, and even if we pretend that there's grounds for an actual debate about the shape of the Earth, the main difference is that RE'ers rely on evidence. FE'ers, as Tom Bishop has mentioned plenty of times, relies on Rowbotham, mixed with out-of-context citation of modern scientists and asserting that every single photo from space is fake. It doesnt help when people like Tom Bishop defends zetetic science by saying that it's based on reproducible tests and observational confirmation, only including what's directly in front of you, ignoring what we know this day.

Zetetic science in this regard reminds me a bit of the dress-gate: Is the dress gold and white, or blue and black? Nearly half the people saw a white and gold dress, so that's evidence that it is white and gold, according to Tom Bishop. The dress was indeed blue and black. Source
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 10:47:45 PM by andruszkow »
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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2016, 11:41:05 PM »
When was aetheric physics ever disproven? Links please.

Im on mobile or I would give you many quotes from Einstein and Newton themselves about how a medium exists, and even modern physicists admit that the field exists but they don't call it ether because the stigma behind it.

Don't believe me google it, or just go to wikipedia aether page.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2016, 12:01:16 AM »
When was aetheric physics ever disproven? Links please.

Im on mobile or I would give you many quotes from Einstein and Newton themselves about how a medium exists, and even modern physicists admit that the field exists but they don't call it ether because the stigma behind it.

Don't believe me google it, or just go to wikipedia aether page.

The Michelson-Morley experiment, for example.

"If for there to be aether, there must be aether wind, then the absence of aether wind disproves aether."

It's how aether theory fails to explain what special relativity succeeds to do. Besides, in this regard, special relativity is a much simpler explanation. (Pun intended, hi zetetic science). Aether doesn't get relevant before you start talking about quantum vacuum, but that's really far off topic and honestly something I don't know much about.

So far, aether theory has led to and explained absolutely nothing.

EDIT: There's a bunch of quotes from Einstein about the aether. Quoting to prove a point would be a case of cherry-picking, if you at the same time leave out that he actually abandoned the idea. Like Newton. And every other scientist at that time.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 12:05:48 AM by andruszkow »
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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2016, 01:31:31 AM »
Michelson Morley only proved that the earth isn't rotating. Einstein resigned to the fact that if the earth is moving, there's no way to measure it, by relegating physics to "inertial frames". He only changed his tune to come up with special relativity because otherwise the consequences of M-M were unfathomable.


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Offline rabinoz

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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 05:43:40 AM »
Michelson Morley only proved that the earth isn't rotating. Einstein resigned to the fact that if the earth is moving, there's no way to measure it, by relegating physics to "inertial frames". He only changed his tune to come up with special relativity because otherwise the consequences of M-M were unfathomable.
Since you so convinced M-M "proved the earth is not rotating", you wouldn't be even slightest bit interested that there are plenty of of gyroscopes that can measure the Earth's rotation.
The better ring-laser-gyros can measure details of the "wobble" - the minute movement of the axis on the Earth's surface due to the motion of the oceans and atmosphere.
There are numerous references, here is one:
Quote
Ring laser
From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_laser
Ring lasers are composed of two beams of light of the same polarization traveling in opposite directions ("counter-rotating") in a closed loop.
Currently ring lasers are used most frequently as gyroscopes (ring laser gyroscope); in moving vessels like cars, ships, planes, and missiles. The world's largest ring lasers can detect details of the Earth's rotation. Such large rings are also capable of extending scientific research in many new directions, including the detection of gravitational waves, Fresnel drag, Lense-Thirring effect, and quantum-electrodynamic effects (see Ring Lasers for Research).

All fake and part of the NASA conspiracy "of course". So, none of this would be of the slightest interest to you!




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Offline rabinoz

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Re: About the Sun
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2016, 06:03:04 AM »
Hello fellow truthseekers,

I have found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth, but what about the Sun? Do we know its origin? Its composition? And where does the light and heat come from?

Thanks! Hope this isn't a redundant post.
You "found the wiki to be of adequate explanations regarding the Earth". Clearly you don't live in the Southern Hemisphere!
There is no Flat Earth map that shows anything like reality down here. The width of Australia and the distance to South America are over twice what they should be!
The star rotation about the South Celestial Pole simply does not fit the Flat Earth map - no South Pole!

Sunrise and sunset directions are massively wrong. At this time of the year the sun rises almost due East - the Flat Earth sun would rise even more North than NE! By the way, just check yourself where the sun rises and sets on the 20th March. It should rise almost exactly due east, and set  almost exactly due West - wherever you live.  Try fitting that with the Flat Earth sun movement.
No wonder TFES has so many Globe supporters from the Southern Hemisphere.

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2016, 06:11:39 AM »
No one can use the ring laser gyroscope as proof of the supposed rotation of the earth; on the contrary, it becomes one of the most beautiful proofs for the existence of ether:

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4656.msg89578#msg89578

Re: About the Sun
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2016, 03:32:20 PM »
The problem with measuring the earth apparent rotation while on earth is like trying to guess your speed while a passenger on an airplane, with your eyes closed.

Even the search for gravitational waves using interferometers would've been entirely more suited to do so far from earths mass, as was the goal of LISA, a project scrapped because I believe it couldve caused some hard to account for revelations. The official reason for ending the project was budget concerns. Instead they opted for LIGO which is infinitely more prone to interference, and if there was a pervading rotating field, it would be undetectable for the fact it remained enclosed within it. Oh and the budget for project was in the billions. Compared to launching a satellite with a ring laser (discovr supposedly only cost 100 million) it doesnt seem like a budget based decision.