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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2016, 04:07:05 PM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2016, 08:53:42 PM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.
So you will now omit all reference to the Bedford Canal experiment!

Not all of the Bedford Canal experiments were wagers for a year's pay. Only one of them was.

Quote
You do realise that even an atmospheric refraction of 0.5° can make an object at sea-level visible at 30 miles.
The only way to check this sort of thing is to do repeated measurements at various times of the day.
The images in this reference show what can happen http://www.atoptics.co.uk/fz904.htm.

So this effect happens whenever the experiment is performed and places the object into the air at the exact height it would need to be, no higher and no lower, to simulate the experience of a Flat Earth?

That's amazing, if so.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2016, 08:55:31 PM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.

Both Hampden and Wallace had referees. Their referees looked into the telescope and sided with their clients.

The experiment is out the window because it was a wager. It is not really permissible as evidence to either side of the argument.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2016, 09:42:39 PM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.

Both Hampden and Wallace had referees. Their referees looked into the telescope and sided with their clients.

Actually Hampden's referee signed off on a picture demonstrating that the middle marker was higher than the outside markers, indicated the Earth is round.

Quote
The experiment is out the window because it was a wager. It is not really permissible as evidence to either side of the argument.

So then I assume you will amend the wiki to say as much, in the interest of completeness?  Also, the wiki should be amended because it says that Wallace cheated, which is patently untrue.  He was forced to give the winnings back because those types of wagers were not permitted and nothing to do with cheating.


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Offline Woody

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2016, 01:55:34 AM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.

Both Hampden and Wallace had referees. Their referees looked into the telescope and sided with their clients.

Actually Hampden's referee signed off on a picture demonstrating that the middle marker was higher than the outside markers, indicated the Earth is round.

Quote
The experiment is out the window because it was a wager. It is not really permissible as evidence to either side of the argument.

So then I assume you will amend the wiki to say as much, in the interest of completeness?  Also, the wiki should be amended because it says that Wallace cheated, which is patently untrue.  He was forced to give the winnings back because those types of wagers were not permitted and nothing to do with cheating.

They will not change it.  I have pointed it in the past and showed where they can read the court transcripts.  Similar to the Bishop Experiment having an error in the stated distance of 10 miles.

"Throughout the years it has become a duty of each Flat Earth Society member, to meet the common round earther in the open, avowed, and unyielding rebellion; to declare that his reign of error and confusion is over; and that henceforth, like a falling dynasty, he must shrink and disappear, leaving the throne and the kingdom of science and philosophy to those awakening intellects whose numbers are constantly increasing, and whose march is rapid and irresistible. The soldiers of truth and reason of the Flat Earth Society have drawn the sword, and ere another generation has been educated and grown to maturity, will have forced the usurpers to abdicate. Like the decayed and crumbling trees of an ancient forest, rent and shattered by wind and storm, the hypothetical philosophies, which have hitherto cumbered the civilized world, are unable to resist the elements of experimental and logical criticism; and sooner or later must succumb to their assaults. The axe is uplifted for a final stroke - it is about to fall upon the primitive sphere of the earth, and the blow will surely "cut the cumberer down!"

Seems if that above does really happen what the people on the throne and part of the kingdom of science say should not be trusted.   

These soldiers of truth, I guess means the truth that is not always right or correct and may be fudged a little if it supports their belief.

I guess the elements of experimental and logical criticism include misrepresenting distances and other things.

Funny how I see FE's say science is lies, yet I can find rather easy to verify evidence that there wiki at the very least seems an attempt to mislead people.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2016, 02:46:32 AM »
Quote from: rabinoz
You do realise that even an atmospheric refraction of 0.5° can make an object at sea-level visible at 30 miles.
The only way to check this sort of thing is to do repeated measurements at various times of the day.
The images in this reference show what can happen http://www.atoptics.co.uk/fz904.htm.

So this effect happens whenever the experiment is performed and places the object into the air at the exact height it would need to be, no higher and no lower, to simulate the experience of a Flat Earth?

That's amazing, if so.
That is not what I said at all! Objects can appear higher or lower than the curvature on a globe would predict.
You did bother to read "The only way to check this sort of thing is to do repeated measurements at various times of the day."
And you did take a look at http://www.atoptics.co.uk/fz904.htm.

Also remember that ships lookout for centuries have used the visible horizon distance to estimate the range of other ships and land. This is from a USN Handbook ( ;D  Sorry, but I guess they are part of the conspiracy!   ;D)

Quote from: Lookout Training Handbook NAVEDTRA 12968-D
RANGE ESTIMATION
Question CIC concerning the radar ranges to visual contacts and compare them
with your estimated range. 
HEIGHT OF EYE
     RANGE TO   HORIZON
FEET
YARDS
MILES
20
10,200
5.1
40
14,400
7.2
60
17,800
8.9
80
20,600
10.3
Figure 5-5: Range – Height Table
The only readily available reference point you can use when estimating ranges is the
horizon.  Knowing your height above the waterline will help you estimate ranges because
the distance to the horizon varies with the height of the eye (Figure 5-5).

At a height of 50 feet, for example, the distance to the horizon is about 16,000 yards (8 miles); at a height of 100 feet, the distance is about 23,000 yards (11-1/2 miles).  Practice estimating ranges to other vessels in company whose distances are known or can be easily determined. 
 
::) Do you think those poor sailors got confused when they found that the Navy had lied to them?  ::)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2016, 03:34:49 AM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.

Both Hampden and Wallace had referees. Their referees looked into the telescope and sided with their clients.

Actually Hampden's referee signed off on a picture demonstrating that the middle marker was higher than the outside markers, indicated the Earth is round.

Quote
The experiment is out the window because it was a wager. It is not really permissible as evidence to either side of the argument.

So then I assume you will amend the wiki to say as much, in the interest of completeness?  Also, the wiki should be amended because it says that Wallace cheated, which is patently untrue.  He was forced to give the winnings back because those types of wagers were not permitted and nothing to do with cheating.

Perhaps Pizza Planet or Thork will look over the subject matter. It's not an article I wrote or really have an interest in.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2016, 07:13:26 AM »
Perhaps Pizza Planet or Thork will look over the subject matter. It's not an article I wrote or really have an interest in.
It does seem interesting the neither you nor any other FE supporter will comment on things that seem to be evidence against a flat earth:
Yes, I suppose my posts are boring, but with the response I (don't) you can see why I have no respect for the FE. No-one seems able to support their own model, other than "Look up the Wiki" or read "Earth not a Globe".
Even the guess at the sun's height is based on little more than an ancient Greek getting his slave to pace out distances, when all the time he thought he was measuring the earth's diameter!
I would even like some critical response to say where I have gone wrong! But simply nothing! What is this FE based on?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2016, 04:21:02 PM »
Here are my comments I made in another thread about the video in the OP:

That person in the video needs to refute Earth Not a Globe, the authority on the subject, not some random youtuber. The author mentions Spherical Excess as a proof of the earth's rotundity, but has not refuted the Earth Not a Globe chapter on the topic.
You never explained why anyone should consider either Rowboham or ENaG to be an authority on surveying.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline model 29

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2016, 05:13:11 PM »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/planetrick/487755017/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/planetrick/487726854/in/photostream





(both photographs taken right on the beach, as can be seen in the captions, and in the rest of the photos)

DISTANCE: 65 KM

VISUAL OBSTACLE: OVER 200 METERS, YET THE OTHER SHORELINE IS IN PLAIN SIGHT
Upon closer inspection, the bottom photo looks to be a series of buildings between Burlington and Oakville (area called Elizabeth Gardens), and are only about 12km away from the photographer's position which, as it turns out, is easily determined based on their other photos taken at that beach.

I can't quite determine the location of the building in the top picture, but I'm sure it's not 65 km away.

Offline model 29

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2016, 06:11:17 PM »
I could care less.

You should, because now I will bring back the photograph taken in Rochester NY:




http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehuston/124639197/
Now let's take a look at this picture.  The description on flickr states, "View of Toronto Skyline taken as we were coming in from Rochester NY."  What does that mean exactly?  A good portion of the distance between Rochester and Toronto is land, but if one looks at the photorealistic buildings on google earth while angling for a view as Toronto would appear from the direction of Rochester, the buildings don't match that picture.  If one moves North from that line of sight, the buildings come to match what is seen in the photo.  That combined with "coming in from" leads me to believe the picture was taken from a ferry that was running between the two cities at the time, which means the picture most likely was taken from somewhere along the ferry route and the distance would be a lot less than 150km.

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Offline Woody

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2016, 08:32:50 PM »
It was a wager for money. The experiment is invalid for that reason alone. End of story.

Correlation does not equal causation, Tom.  There were checks in place to deal with this source of bias.

Both Hampden and Wallace had referees. Their referees looked into the telescope and sided with their clients.

Actually Hampden's referee signed off on a picture demonstrating that the middle marker was higher than the outside markers, indicated the Earth is round.

Quote
The experiment is out the window because it was a wager. It is not really permissible as evidence to either side of the argument.

So then I assume you will amend the wiki to say as much, in the interest of completeness?  Also, the wiki should be amended because it says that Wallace cheated, which is patently untrue.  He was forced to give the winnings back because those types of wagers were not permitted and nothing to do with cheating.

Perhaps Pizza Planet or Thork will look over the subject matter. It's not an article I wrote or really have an interest in.

What about what is written as the distance for the Bishop Experiment?  I believe you have access to edit the wiki now.

Are you going to at the very least provide a visible link to an addendum making the correction? I would suggest insert it right next to where it says 33 miles.

Since you know the distance is 10 miles off if you do not make an attempt within your means to make people aware of your error you are being dishonest.

If you do not your credibility as a researcher of FE should be questioned.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2016, 06:00:19 AM »
The bipolar map has made it through seven years of debate, using every conceivable distance (even Santiago de Chile to Juneau): it works very well, the only FE map that can be used.

By the way rabinoz... you still owe us an answer to the most basic argument which destroys RE once and for all:

THE FAINT YOUNG SUN PARADOX

So far you have refused to answer it: as I told you before, unless you can explain the faint young sun paradox, your words amount to nothing at all.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1707290#msg1707290
1: THE FAINT YOUNG SUN PARADOX has nothing to to do with whether the earth is flat or a globe.
2: Your ridiculous "bipolar map" has nefer been seriously considered by any sane person - that is how it survived!

Just get the message neither I nor anyone else here is the slightest bit interested in your "FAINT YOUNG SUN PARADOX" and I have no intention of wasting my time of it!

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2016, 06:45:32 AM »
Add to the list of "Posts the FE crowd won't address":

My contribution on infrared radiation from the sun

My question about the sun's distance from the earth as reportd by Rowbotham himself or the Wiki
Proud member of İntikam's "Ignore List"
Ok. You proven you are unworthy to unignored. You proven it was a bad idea to unignore you. and it was for me a disgusting experience...Now you are going to place where you deserved and accustomed.
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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2016, 12:00:18 AM »
Add to the list of "Posts the FE crowd won't address":

My contribution on infrared radiation from the sun

My question about the sun's distance from the earth as reportd by Rowbotham himself or the Wiki
I have started a new topic How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone?.
It is essentially the same as I have asked on other threads and elsewhere, but never had an answer to the specific question as to how a person with a full moon overhead (it would be at midnight) can ever see any better that a half moon.
See what happens this time!