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Offline EarthIsntFlat

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Is the Earth really flat?
« on: February 16, 2016, 08:11:50 PM »
I want some good proof that the Earth is flat, I know everyone has counter evidence but I have yet to find some good hard evidence.
SS

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Offline Woody

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 09:02:57 PM »
Read the FAQ and Experimental evidence in the wiki.  Also read the existing threads.

Really depends on what you consider good proof and hard evidence if you will like the answers.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 09:30:50 PM »
Look out your window.
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 10:17:41 PM »
Look out your window.
It looks pretty hilly out my window, so that is evidence that the whole earth is hilly?
I go to the beach and I see a crisp sharp horizon that does not look far away at all.
Then I drive a couple of thousands west and all I see is rolling sand-hills that seem to go on forever.
No, looking out my window does not help much!
But, I see the sun and moon appear to rise from behind the horizon and set behind the horizon.
The sun appears to stay the same size from sunrise to sunset, though being so bright it's hard to be sure.
The moon appears to stay the same size from moonrise to moonset, even looks a big bigger near the horizon.
These latter observations don't look that consistent with a flat earth.

I am afraid my personal observations seem to fit a globe much better that a flat earth.

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 11:29:02 PM »
... But, I see the sun and moon appear to rise from behind the horizon and set behind the horizon...
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

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Offline junker

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 02:15:29 AM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 10:35:29 AM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!
The FAQ states that the sun is a spotlight shining down on the FE.
If this were true, the sun could only appear round if it were either
- Perfectly overhead
- Perfectly aimed at your observation point all the time
As the sun moves away from your observation point it would cease to be round and become oval.
I have never seen evidence of this occurring.

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2016, 03:57:36 PM »
Look out your window.
Just because you cant see something with your eyes does not mean its not their. We cant see the earth expanding but that does not mean it is not. IT IS and we know that from guess what... Evidence that you guys refuse to use (we know the universe is expanding faster then the speed of light because we can observe different galaxies and stars moving apart from each other if you backtrack that  you can see we came from one singular point a singularity.) And no that does not break the law of relativity because objects with mass cant go that fast but that does not stop space from stretching that fast.

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Offline EarthIsntFlat

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 03:59:54 PM »
Look out your window.
This argument is very invalid because from the distance that the sun is from earth, anf the size it would appear flat as would something stupid like a cup
SS

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 02:29:09 PM »
Look out your window.
This argument is very invalid because from the distance that the sun is from earth, anf the size it would appear flat as would something stupid like a cup

If there ever was someone who came to this forum trying to obscure their preconceptions and biases, it certainly isn't you. On your first post from username "EarthIsntFlat" you ask if it really is. It's obvious it would take earth shattering proof to possibly even make you consider existence on anything but a globe.

The most convincing aspect to me is fluid dynamics, the fact water always seeks it's own level, therefore it couldn't possibly exist on a sphere. That and gravity to me, by all appearances is pseudoscience, in a similar vein as evolutionary theory.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 03:48:40 PM »
Look out your window.
Just because you cant see something with your eyes does not mean its not their.

*can't, it's, there.  It helps to make sure that your writing is grammatically correct and you are using the correct words for ease of clarity.  This sentence is a jumbled mess the way you leave it.  I feel like people depend so much on spellchecker nowadays they have gotten lazy in learning the proper forms of the words they are trying to use.

Anyway, the point is that I can see with my own eyes that the Earth is flat.  You can too.  If extraordinary evidence is required it is required to show that the Earth is not flat because it is flatness that we observe.

EarthIsntFlat said in the OP:
Quote
I want some good proof that the Earth is flat, I know everyone has counter evidence but I have yet to find some good hard evidence.

"Good proof" and "hard evidence" are hardly necessary to prove what we are all able to observe for ourselves.  It's nonsensical to demand such.  I demand good proof and hard evidence that the Earth is a whirling ball!
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 11:32:21 PM »
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
If there ever was someone who came to this forum trying to obscure their preconceptions and biases, it certainly isn't you. On your first post from username "EarthIsntFlat" you ask if it really is. It's obvious it would take earth shattering proof to possibly even make you consider existence on anything but a globe.
The most convincing aspect to me is fluid dynamics, the fact water always seeks it's own level, therefore it couldn't possibly exist on a sphere. That and gravity to me, by all appearances is pseudoscience, in a similar vein as evolutionary theory.
And I could just as well say "If there ever was someone who came to this forum" convinced that they and they alone have "The Truth" it must be you, "TheTruthIsOnHere". When someone claims that they have "The Truth", immediately my instinct is to look carefully into what they claim.

Then you say your "most convincing aspect to me is fluid dynamics, the fact water always seeks it's own level, therefore it couldn't possibly exist on a sphere."
But given some sound reason for water to "stick" to that ball there is no problem at all.
To you it might seem trivial, but if you wet a tennis ball you will find that a lot or the water does not drain away. Why? Simply because there IS a force keeping it there. In this case it is surface tension. Now I know that this only acts on a small scale, but if there is some other force that acts on a large scale then water can "stick" to the globe. This needs to be an attractive force, and there are not many of those that act at a distance.
Water in an eddy or rotating tub does not stay level, in this case from inertial forces due to the rotation.

But the important force that does act a distance you blithely dismiss! It is caused by gravitation.

On another thread I asked you what Cavendish (and numerous others) actually measured in there experiments. As yet you have not yet bothered to comment, so I will ask you again!

You claimed!
Quote from: TheTruthIsOnHere
The issue with the Cavendish experiment is essentially the same as with any experiment involving the "scientific" method. You approach it with a conclusion, or "hypothesis" in mind, and seek to prove it. Let me get make this clear though, a guy with led balls hanging in his shed in the 18th century is the sole proof of a force we base all of modern astronomical science upon[1].
Cavendish never set out to "prove gravity". His aim was to "weigh the earth" and find its density. And he did not approach it "with a conclusion, or 'hypothesis' in mind, and seek to prove it." Before Cavendish the density of the earth was expected to be similar to that of the surface rocks - around 2,500 to 3,000 kg/m3 and Newton used this sort of figure to estimate the mass of the earth.
Cavendish, however, found that the density of the earth was much higher at 5,448 kg/m3 - a little lower than the current figure.

So you are completely wrong in this!
Cavendish did not set out with a conclusion, or 'hypothesis' in mind, and seek to prove it.
Cavendish had no idea that his density of the earth would turn out so high.
From the Cavendish result we can calculate the Universal Gravitational Constant G, and his result is within about 1% of the accepted value. Cavendish could hardly have achieved these result by accident or guesswork!

Once you accept gravitation there is no problem with the water surface conforming to the shape of the globe. The mean sea level is what is used to define the shape of the earth - the geoid. The water simply sets it own level as you say.


[1] Saying that "a guy with led balls hanging in his shed in the 18th century is the sole proof of a force we base all of modern astronomical science upon" is simply unfounded. Since Cavendish's time numerous experiments to find the value of the Universal Gravitational Constant G
have been performed. It has been repeated so often for two reasons. The first is simply that the forces are so small that experimental error is difficult to avoid. The second reason is that there are still very small, but so far unexplained, apparent variations in the values of G determined. Making these more mysterious is that the "Gm product" that controls g and the periods of satellites, the moon etc is perfectly stable. Yes, even in science there are still (many) unanswered questions.

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 06:36:39 PM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!

False. Please adjust the FAQ to reflect facts. Thanks!

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 07:43:15 PM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!

False. Please adjust the FAQ to reflect facts. Thanks!

Please watch the low-content posting.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 03:51:33 AM by Pongo »

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 10:33:22 PM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!

Please watch the low-content posting.

False. Please adjust the FAQ to reflect facts. Thanks!

Does that go for me AND Junker? Or are you discriminating against me because I know the Earth is not flat?

Edit: REALLY?? HAHA! You sent me a warning message for 'low content posting' after you JUST POSTED a reply with 2/3 the amount of words that I used!! What is the definition of 'low content posting'? And who is your superior?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:55:36 PM by atmoSPHERE »

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 11:16:26 PM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.

False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!

Please watch the low-content posting.

False. Please adjust the FAQ to reflect facts. Thanks!

Does that go for me AND Junker? Or are you discriminating against me because I know the Earth is not flat?

Edit: REALLY?? HAHA! You sent me a warning message for 'low content posting' after you JUST POSTED a reply with 2/3 the amount of words that I used!! What is the definition of 'low content posting'? And who is your superior?

You don't know shit peasant, except what you've been told to know. 

There's some low content posting I'd gladly receive a warning for.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 11:22:49 PM »
This cannot occur on a flat earth. To lose visibility of the Sun on a FE model it must become obscured by either
1) Sinking below the flat plane
2) Switching off
Either of these would result in the entire earth becoming shrouded in darkness simultaneously.
False. Please review the FAQ. Thanks!
Please watch the low-content posting.
False. Please adjust the FAQ to reflect facts. Thanks!
We have read the Wiki and a lot of the FAQ! But what we see with our own eyes seems to conflict with any explanations given.

When the sky is perfectly clear at sunrise I see the sun's disk going being completely hidden to fully visible over a period of only about 2 minutes, and at sunset going from fully visible to completely hidden over same period.

Now a
Quote from: the Wiki
How do you explain day/night cycles and seasons?
Day and night cycles are easily explained on a flat earth. The sun moves in circles around the North Pole. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night. The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
It unequivocally says The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
This might sort of explain the "sudden disappearance" (I'm not convinced, but who am I?).
But, it does not explain how the moon is illuminated, especially when full! In this post,
Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat? « Reply #81 on: March 17, 2016, 11:11:50 AM », I got nowhere trying to discuss this with Tom Bishop.

Tom Bishop seems to speak as though he has some authority in TFES and he says:
The sun shines light from all directions on its surface. It's not a lamp. It's light is limited in its duration across the earth's surface because of the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere, and its decent(sic?) into the surface is an illusion of perspective.
The sun and moon at a level of about 3000 miles above the earth are not within the atmosphere of the earth, and so the light between those two objects is unimpeded.
This explanation can never explain the sharp transition we see as the sun rises and sets! On top of that, before sunrise and after sunset we often see sunlight shining on the underside of clouds near the horizon!
In addition "the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere" simply cannot explain the quite precise predictions we can make of sunrise and sunset times (certainly within a couple of minutes at the most)!.
The obvious explanation of this that the sun is indeed below the horizon.

We are all waiting for explanations of these everyday events.

geckothegeek

Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 11:49:45 PM »
I want some good proof that the Earth is flat, I know everyone has counter evidence but I have yet to find some good hard evidence.

I could give you a list of many  good evidences that the earth is a globe but I don't know of any for a flat earth.
Unless if you believe that everthing that Samuel Birley Rowbotham wrote is The Gospel Truth.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2016, 12:48:43 PM »
I want some good proof that the Earth is flat, I know everyone has counter evidence but I have yet to find some good hard evidence.

I could give you a list of many  good evidences that the earth is a globe but I don't know of any for a flat earth.
Unless if you believe that everthing that Samuel Birley Rowbotham wrote is The Gospel Truth.
Still no good proof that the earth is flat?
And I thought there were at least a hundred of them in A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Go look them up and start quoting them, so we can demolish them one by one!

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Is the Earth really flat?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2016, 05:38:36 PM »
I want some good proof that the Earth is flat, I know everyone has counter evidence but I have yet to find some good hard evidence.

I could give you a list of many  good evidences that the earth is a globe but I don't know of any for a flat earth.
Unless if you believe that everthing that Samuel Birley Rowbotham wrote is The Gospel Truth.
Still no good proof that the earth is flat?
And I thought there were at least a hundred of them in A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Go look them up and start quoting them, so we can demolish them one by one!

Why not open a thread to demolish them one by one yourself?  It could be fun!
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.