*

Offline Hoppy

  • *
  • Posts: 1149
  • Posts 6892
    • View Profile
Gyroscopes
« on: February 11, 2016, 03:24:20 PM »
It seems that gyroscopes should be studied more.
Pro flat earth gyro video



I don't quite know this guy's point.



« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 03:26:00 PM by Hoppy »
God is real.

Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 07:01:00 PM »
These are elementary issues concerning gyroscope theory.

Here is the total demolition of the UAFE theory, using RING LASER GYROSCOPES:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50860.0#.VgUGQ9Kqqko

No UAFE was able to explain this one: it was one of the most devastating threads ever posted by a RE.


As usual, even though my AFET is not included in the official faq, I had to save the day for the FES:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1255899#msg1255899


I challenge the UAFE present here and now to explain the ring laser gyroscope: it cannot be done, unless one resorts to ether physics.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 11:03:24 PM »
It seems that gyroscopes should be studied more.
Pro flat earth gyro video
I don't quite know this guy's point.
I'll answer these in detail later, but aircraft AI gyros do NOT do "prove flat earth"! All they do is give a short term (10 minute or so vertical reference). They have a built in mechanism to gradually reset themselves to this.

One the other hand, just look up how marine Gyro-compasses work. These rely on the rotating earth to set themselves to true north and not magnetic north.

But, unless you like lots of egg on you face, don't try pushing gyros as "proof of flat earth". Small mechanical gyros (as in aircraft) simply do not have the long term stability to do this.

*

Offline Hoppy

  • *
  • Posts: 1149
  • Posts 6892
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 01:09:58 AM »
It seems that gyroscopes should be studied more.
Pro flat earth gyro video
I don't quite know this guy's point.
I'll answer these in detail later, but aircraft AI gyros do NOT do "prove flat earth"! All they do is give a short term (10 minute or so vertical reference). They have a built in mechanism to gradually reset themselves to this.

One the other hand, just look up how marine Gyro-compasses work. These rely on the rotating earth to set themselves to true north and not magnetic north.

But, unless you like lots of egg on you face, don't try pushing gyros as "proof of flat earth". Small mechanical gyros (as in aircraft) simply do not have the long term stability to do this.
It seems if you had one running on your table for an hour it would show the earths' movement of 15degrees. Why wouldn't it?
God is real.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 09:07:44 AM »
It seems that gyroscopes should be studied more.
Pro flat earth gyro video
I don't quite know this guy's point.
I'll answer these in detail later, but aircraft AI gyros do NOT do "prove flat earth"! All they do is give a short term (10 minute or so vertical reference). They have a built in mechanism to gradually reset themselves to this.

One the other hand, just look up how marine Gyro-compasses work. These rely on the rotating earth to set themselves to true north and not magnetic north.

But, unless you like lots of egg on you face, don't try pushing gyros as "proof of flat earth". Small mechanical gyros (as in aircraft) simply do not have the long term stability to do this.
It seems if you had one running on your table for an hour it would show the earths' movement of 15degrees. Why wouldn't it?
Yes, it most certainly would! But (there's always one of those - in legal documents we call them "fine print") , no low cost gyroscope has the stability to manage this.
Here is a fairly down-to-earth document on practical gyroscopes https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-696.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiavsfq5PHKAhWDg6YKHYjaAOQQFggkMAI&usg=AFQjCNElXyqvtDKP97LL1sKVKlA-yLEmGQ  Sorry about the massive link.
The earth rotates at only (about) 15°/hr and low cost gyros have much more drift than that. Low drift ones are available, but!
Quote
Commercially Available Mechanical Gyroscopes
Numerous mechanical gyroscopes are available on the market. Typically, these precision machined
gyros can cost between $10,000 and $100,000. Lower cost mechanical gyros are usually of lesser
quality in terms of drift rate and accuracy.
There are much lower cost ones for model helicopters, etc, but their stability is far lower than needed.
Quote
Futaba Model Helicopter Gyro
The Futaba FP-G154 [FUTABA] is a low-cost low-accuracy mechanical rate gyrogyro designed for use in radio-controlled model helicopters and model airplanes. The Futuna FP-G154 costs less than $150 and is available at hobby stores,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

However, sensitivity and accuracy are orders of magnitude lower than “professional” mechanical gyroscopes. The drift of radio-control type gyroscopes is on the order of tens of degrees per minute.
There are various solid-state gyros and ring laser gyros, but nothing low in cost with adequate stability that I know of, but I'm no gyro expert! I'd love to here if there was!
I'll leave aircraft Al's to another post, but they do not use large gyros with sufficient long term stability either.
Of course, when you start talking about military grade inertial navigation systems you will get the stability, but cost - don't ask!




*

Offline Rayzor

  • *
  • Posts: 198
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 06:24:01 AM »
I'm currently working on a project that uses the Ti CC2650 BLE chip,   and there is a sensor tag  available for $29 that has incorporated a 9 axis accelerometer/gyroscope,  you connect via blutooth to your mobile phone and you can read the various sensors,   light level, temperature, humidity, pressure, magnetic sensor,  x,y,z accelerometers,  x,y,z gyroscopes,  x,y,x magnetometers and microphone,  runs for a year on a lithium coin cell.

http://www.ti.com/ww/en/wireless_connectivity/sensortag2015/index.html

Android and IOS code is free download. 

I doubt that the gyro specs are good enough for this application,  refer to the data for the 9 axis chip MPU9250  http://store.invensense.com/datasheets/invensense/MPU9250REV1.0.pdf

The first problem, I see is that the gyro's will drift with temperature,  so the experiment will need to be conducted in a temperature controlled environment,   second is the noise in the gyro output,  so some external software to average the gyro outputs over time.   The data is 16 bit  degrees/sec,   and we are looking for something less than 15 degrees per hour,  or 0.00417 deg/s,  while the noise is 0.1 deg/s rms. 

With a bit of careful temperature control ( and correction ) together with some clever averaging, it just might work,  but I think it will be borderline.




*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16146
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 11:51:39 AM »
You're going to need some better kit. The MPU9250 is just barely good enough for your mobile phone to figure out if it's horizontal or vertical.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2016, 01:22:18 AM »
You're going to need some better kit. The MPU9250 is just barely good enough for your mobile phone to figure out if it's horizontal or vertical.
Given up on the Gyroscope idea - scared it might prove that we live on a rotating globe?

*

Offline Hoppy

  • *
  • Posts: 1149
  • Posts 6892
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2016, 05:48:24 PM »
You're going to need some better kit. The MPU9250 is just barely good enough for your mobile phone to figure out if it's horizontal or vertical.
Given up on the Gyroscope idea - scared it might prove that we live on a rotating globe?
No, I'm just having trouble buying the gyroscopes that I want.
God is real.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2016, 09:28:59 AM »
You're going to need some better kit. The MPU9250 is just barely good enough for your mobile phone to figure out if it's horizontal or vertical.
Given up on the Gyroscope idea - scared it might prove that we live on a rotating globe?
No, I'm just having trouble buying the gyroscopes that I want.
Your biggest problem is that a gyroscope with too much drift will make it seem that the earth is rotating too fast.

*

Offline rabinoz

  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Just look South at the Stars
    • View Profile
Re: Gyroscopes
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 05:36:22 AM »
If you really want a gyroscope to do the job, here is one! Mind you if you don't have a Bill Gates budget, forget it!
https://aerospace.honeywell.com/en/products/navigation-and-sensors/gg1320an-digital-ring-laser-gyroscope

This one has a "drift" that would do very well: Angular Random Walk (ARW) 0.0035 deg/hour (typical).
 Angular Random Walk means that in the absence of any movement,  after an hour it will typically show 0.0035°.
Don't worry I really think this is a bit up-market!
But, the point is that there are ring laser gyroscopes that far more stable than needed to measure the Earth's rotation.