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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2016, 04:06:03 AM »
Also the moon's size is the same is the same for all viewers, so it must be a very great distance away!

Please read the Wiki on the size of the sun and moon.

http://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2016, 06:32:47 AM »
Also the moon's size is the same is the same for all viewers, so it must be a very great distance away!
Please read the Wiki on the size of the sun and moon.
http://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset
Please show some evidence that air can magnify anything something like FOUR TIMES.
And, no unless you are still stuck centuries back, the refractive index of air is around 1.000293! It does vary with wavelength, but not over 1.000305.  Kight might be bent up to 0.5° or so, but that's all!
Sometimes I think that the only thing "Zetetic" about Flat Earth beliefs is "The earth looks flat", then everything else is guessed or bent to try to explain away the differences.
This differs from the scientific method, which did start off with exactly the same conclusion, because "The earth looks flat" - it does and it was assumed to be stationary.
But, then more observations were made and some of those did not fit with the "Flat Earth" hypothesis -  well you know the rest!
It's not much point preaching to the converted, or to the unconvertable.

BTW The nearest refence in the Wiki seems to be under "Constant Speed of the Sun", where all it talks about is a completely erroneous description of perspective - unless you go back to bendy light.

Still if you want to close you society to any chance of acceptance in the "more scientific" community, just stick to these ideas that go completely against all the discoveries on light propagation and so many other well accept "theories".

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2016, 10:41:32 AM »
Neither.  It is a good question but irrelevent to the true form of the earth.
The sun is not a "source" but rather a focal point of converging rays.
So if you're saying the sun is not the "source" of daylight, what then is?
Also, the shape of the sun is totally relevant to the shape of the Earth!

It is not a mystery.  Just open your eyes, look up in the sky and see for yourself.  The models claim no more than what you can see.
I have, the sun appears round in shape all day so it must either be:
- a disc that is perfectly centered (aimed) on my specific location at all times during the day, even when I travel, or
- a sphere
If the sun is a disc close to Earth it cannot appear as a round shape from all points on a flat earth. Simple observation tells me this is not true.
If the sun is a sphere it will cast daylight on all points of a flat earth all of the time. Simple observation tells me this is not true as it is currently night outside.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2016, 04:36:36 AM »
Please show some evidence that air can magnify anything something like FOUR TIMES.
And, no unless you are still stuck centuries back, the refractive index of air is around 1.000293! It does vary with wavelength, but not over 1.000305.  Kight might be bent up to 0.5° or so, but that's all!

There are several examples that air can magnify in the article.

If the sun is a sphere it will cast daylight on all points of a flat earth all of the time. Simple observation tells me this is not true as it is currently night outside.

You apparently have not bothered to read any of our material.

Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2016, 05:33:30 AM »
Neither.  It is a good question but irrelevent to the true form of the earth.
The sun is not a "source" but rather a focal point of converging rays.
So if you're saying the sun is not the "source" of daylight, what then is?
Nobody knows. 

Also, the shape of the sun is totally relevant to the shape of the Earth!
The shape of the sun does not change the shape of the earth. 

It is not a mystery.  Just open your eyes, look up in the sky and see for yourself.  The models claim no more than what you can see.
I have, the sun appears round in shape all day so it must either be:
- a disc that is perfectly centered (aimed) on my specific location at all times during the day, even when I travel, or
- a sphere
If the sun is a disc close to Earth it cannot appear as a round shape from all points on a flat earth. Simple observation tells me this is not true.
If the sun is a sphere it will cast daylight on all points of a flat earth all of the time. Simple observation tells me this is not true as it is currently night outside.
Focal point
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2016, 09:55:28 AM »
You apparently have not bothered to read any of our material.
You apparently have not bothered to debate my point.
Instead you point to the vast material which
- contradicts itself
- makes too many assumptions
- does not grasp the basics of geometry, gravity, physics, maths, chemistry or anything else that may disprove your theory
- varies from one person to the next
- assumes that the region below the equator line cannot exist

Please answer the questions or admit that you cannot.

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2016, 09:56:30 AM »
Focal point
So the sun is a giant magnifying glass??
That certainly explains the summers in Australia!

Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2016, 08:30:12 PM »
So the sun is a giant magnifying glass??
No. 

I believe the reflective surface of the firmament acts as a parabolic mirror of which the sun is the focal point.  The sun's rays are converging down from the firmament. 
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2016, 11:19:53 PM »
So the sun is a giant magnifying glass??
No. 
I believe the reflective surface of the firmament acts as a parabolic mirror of which the sun is the focal point.  The sun's rays are converging down from the firmament.
I thought you followed "Zetetic Cosmology". I supposed you have observed this mirror and if the sun is the focal point please explain how we see the sun not as a "point" but as a disc around 0.5° in diameter. And, where is the energy source that this "mirror" is focusing?
Also if "reflective surface of the firmament acts as a parabolic mirror" what makes the sun appear to move?
I am terribly confused trying to follow this, maybe a sketch would help.
This flat earth movement has been around for over 200 years, so how is it that even in glaringly obvious things like the sun, everybody seems to have their own ideas.
Yes, I know you are the Anarchist! What else would we expect?

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2016, 01:21:53 AM »
You apparently have not bothered to read any of our material.
You apparently have not bothered to debate my point.
Instead you point to the vast material which
- contradicts itself
- makes too many assumptions
- does not grasp the basics of geometry, gravity, physics, maths, chemistry or anything else that may disprove your theory
- varies from one person to the next
- assumes that the region below the equator line cannot exist

Please answer the questions or admit that you cannot.

Still waiting...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2016, 01:40:54 AM »
You apparently have not bothered to read any of our material.
You apparently have not bothered to debate my point.
Instead you point to the vast material which
- contradicts itself
- makes too many assumptions
- does not grasp the basics of geometry, gravity, physics, maths, chemistry or anything else that may disprove your theory
- varies from one person to the next
- assumes that the region below the equator line cannot exist

Please answer the questions or admit that you cannot.

Still waiting...

Please keep the discussion related to the topic.

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2016, 02:04:56 AM »
You apparently have not bothered to read any of our material.
You apparently have not bothered to debate my point.
Instead you point to the vast material which
- contradicts itself
- makes too many assumptions
- does not grasp the basics of geometry, gravity, physics, maths, chemistry or anything else that may disprove your theory
- varies from one person to the next
- assumes that the region below the equator line cannot exist

Please answer the questions or admit that you cannot.

Still waiting...

Please keep the discussion related to the topic.
The topic is debating the Sun and Moon shape.
I have asked several questions of which none you have bothered to answer, instead you point to the vast material which
- contradicts itself
- makes too many assumptions
- does not grasp the basics of geometry, gravity, physics, maths, chemistry or anything else that may disprove your theory
- varies from one person to the next
- assumes that the region below the equator line cannot exist

Please answer the questions or admit that you cannot.

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Offline junker

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2016, 02:14:26 AM »
Still waiting...

Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora, consider this a warning.

 It is quite possible that no one wants to reply to you because of the smug sense of superiority you are exhibiting.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2016, 03:07:07 AM »
Please show some evidence that air can magnify anything something like FOUR TIMES.
And, no unless you are still stuck centuries back, the refractive index of air is around 1.000293! It does vary with wavelength, but not over 1.000305.  Might might be bent up to 0.5° or so, but that's all!
There are several examples that air can magnify in the article.
This?
Quote
Distinctness of the Sun
Q. Shouldn't the sun get blurrier if it is being magnified?
A. The sun actually does get a bit fuzzier when it is at the horizon compared to overhead at noonday.
Q. But shouldn't the sun get 4x blurrier if it is increasing its diameter by 4x, for example?
A. No. You are assuming that the sun is being magnified in a similar method as a magnifying glass, where blurriness occurs as a ratio with distance. This is incorrect. The magnification of the sun occurs through a projection. A projection of light is occurring upon the atmolayer between the sun and observer.
I cannot see anything justifying "increasing its diameter by 4x"!

A lot said about the sun claims it is because it is so bright etc, etc. However, exactly the same happens with the moon.
With a clear horizon, the moon (much easier to see when full) seems to rise quite sharp and crisp and stays the same size as over the whole sky till it sets, still the same size and looking crisp and sharp!
The arguments about bright lights looking bigger in the distance do not apply to the moon.
So how does the moon stay the same size as it moves across the sky?
Wiki did not seem a lot of help.

Then I went on and read:
Quote
Why does the moon look the same to everyone?
Q: Why does the moon and the phases look the same to everyone one earth regardless of where they are?
A: It doesn't. The phase you see varies depending on your location on earth. In FET this is explained by the different observers standing on either side of the moon. On one side it is right-side up, and on the other side it is upside down.

The phase of the moon simply does not depend on your location on earth. True, the moon looks the upside down in one hemisphere compared to the other, but the phase of the moon is exactly the same[1] at every location (where the moon can be seen).

[1] Parallax does allow us to see a slightly different face of the spherical moon at various locations.

Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2016, 05:15:33 AM »
Neither.  It is a good question but irrelevent to the true form of the earth.
The sun is not a "source" but rather a focal point of converging rays.
So if you're saying the sun is not the "source" of daylight, what then is?
Also, the shape of the sun is totally relevant to the shape of the Earth!

It is not a mystery.  Just open your eyes, look up in the sky and see for yourself.  The models claim no more than what you can see.
I have, the sun appears round in shape all day so it must either be:
- a disc that is perfectly centered (aimed) on my specific location at all times during the day, even when I travel, or
- a sphere
If the sun is a disc close to Earth it cannot appear as a round shape from all points on a flat earth. Simple observation tells me this is not true.
If the sun is a sphere it will cast daylight on all points of a flat earth all of the time. Simple observation tells me this is not true as it is currently night outside.

Quick question... Isnt the moon conveniently aimed at us at all times? What would lead you to believe the sun is any different in that regard?

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2016, 09:41:06 AM »
Still waiting...

Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora, consider this a warning.

 It is quite possible that no one wants to reply to you because of the smug sense of superiority you are exhibiting.
Please explain which of the rules this post violated?

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2016, 10:11:28 AM »
Neither.  It is a good question but irrelevent to the true form of the earth.
The sun is not a "source" but rather a focal point of converging rays.
So if you're saying the sun is not the "source" of daylight, what then is?
Also, the shape of the sun is totally relevant to the shape of the Earth!

It is not a mystery.  Just open your eyes, look up in the sky and see for yourself.  The models claim no more than what you can see.
I have, the sun appears round in shape all day so it must either be:
- a disc that is perfectly centered (aimed) on my specific location at all times during the day, even when I travel, or
- a sphere
If the sun is a disc close to Earth it cannot appear as a round shape from all points on a flat earth. Simple observation tells me this is not true.
If the sun is a sphere it will cast daylight on all points of a flat earth all of the time. Simple observation tells me this is not true as it is currently night outside.

Quick question... Isnt the moon conveniently aimed at us at all times? What would lead you to believe the sun is any different in that regard?
If the sun is a disk (and not a focal point) and is aimed us us the entire time, there should be light all over a FE model at all times.

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Offline junker

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2016, 03:15:51 PM »

Still waiting...

Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora, consider this a warning.

 It is quite possible that no one wants to reply to you because of the smug sense of superiority you are exhibiting.
Please explain which of the rules this post violated?

Rules 3 and 6. Also, please do not argue moderation in the same thread which you were warned. We have a forum dedicated for those topics.

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2016, 08:53:40 AM »
my apologies.

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Offline EarthIsntFlat

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Re: Sun and Moon shape
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2016, 03:56:44 PM »
the problem with this theory is that if the sun and moon are flat like some of the youtube videos say they are then we wouldn't get the crescent moon we get sometimes
SS