[rabinoz]

I am curious! The previous post has been here over 2 weeks, and claims to be "The Ultimate Proof" - what gives - no-one cares?

Have a look here: http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4311.msg89215#msg89215.

It would be an exaggeration to claim it is the "proof of a Globe". How do you "prove" something? but to my mind at least it is proof that the earth cannot be flat. Just possibly this video might picture it better than I can! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievzGLRaSj4

Clip from Flat Earth Myth Disproved

Maybe my figures were wrong, but nobody queried them and I believe they are well justified!
The 10,000 km from equator to north pole is quite close the figure given a number of times in the Wiki.
See http://wiki.tfes.org/Finding_your_Latitude_and_Longitude.

The equator diameter can by found from:

from: http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzdistancedegree.htm
A degree of longitude is widest at the equator at 69.172 miles (111.321 km).

Where we get the width of a degree of latitude at the equator, making 360° x 111.3 km/deg = 40,068 km(close enough to 40,000 km).
The same figures can be found from numerous sources, or just get someone that lives on the equator to measure it!

[Edit: added link]

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

I don't even understand why anyone would come here attempting to "prove" the earth is round. Obviously 12+ years of public indoctrination and however many photos from NASA hasn't convinced the skeptics of a globe earth, it's surprising people like rabinoz even try. There's obviously enough reasonable doubt to at the very least say: we can not be sure. You can pull numbers and hypotheses up all day but you can not one way or another prove it either way. It is well accepted that even things we take for granted like heliocentricity is just a "model" and the motions of heavens, eclipses etc can all be charted, mapped, and predicted just as well on a geocentric model. So to me I remain agnostic, until something does come along and remove all reasonable doubt one way or the other.

[rabinoz]

I don't even understand why anyone would come here attempting to "prove" the earth is round. Obviously 12+ years of public indoctrination and however many photos from NASA hasn't convinced the skeptics of a globe earth, it's surprising people like rabinoz even try. There's obviously enough reasonable doubt to at the very least say: we can not be sure. You can pull numbers and hypotheses up all day but you can not one way or another prove it either way. It is well accepted that even things we take for granted like heliocentricity is just a "model" and the motions of heavens, eclipses etc can all be charted, mapped, and predicted just as well on a geocentric model. So to me I remain agnostic, until something does come along and remove all reasonable doubt one way or the other.

I hate to disillusion you, but NASA had nothing to do with deciding that the earth is a Globe! You are simply stuck in your NASA delusion!

The Globe has been well accepted for over 2,500 years.

It is you NASAphobics who have been brainwashed!

No! the numbers I am using are not pulled out of the air, or "hypothesised", they are well accepted

Latitude
To locate your latitude on the flat earth, it's important to know the following fact: The degrees of the earth's latitude are based upon the angle of the sun in the sky at noon equinox.
That's why 0° N/S sits on the equator where the sun is directly overhead, and why 90° N/S sits at the poles where the sun is at a right angle to the observer. At 45 North or South from the equator, the sun will sit at an angle 45° in the sky. The angle of the sun past zenith is our latitude.
Knowing that as you recede North or South from the equator at equinox, the sun will descend at a pace of one degree per 69.5 miles, we can even derive our distance from the equator based upon the position of the sun in the sky.

The distance from the Equator to the North Pole is the 90° (from above) times the 69.5 miles per degree!  (convinced? - no I guess not!)
As I put in the previous post the degree of longitude at the equator is (almost exactly) the same as the degree of latitude. Sailors and all other navigators have used this for centuries! If you, in your wisdom, wish to dispute this you will need some good evidence!

Yes, there is no doubt that the measurements of the real earth simply will not fit on a plane surface.

These distances are comparatively easy to verify!

[Unsure101]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

[rabinoz]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:

. . . . . (two hour flat earth hard sell video) . . . . .

I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.
You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

As you have probably found out, I don't think there are flights "West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ." - you found the Santiago one!
Below are the shortest distance routes from Sydney(Australia) to Santiago (Chile) on the Gleason's Map[1] and on Google Earth (for the Globe).
Note that the actual routes used on long distant flights will usually be chosen to fit in with the current winds. The return flight from Chile to Sydney often would be routed further south, sometimes within sight of Antarctica.

Shortest Sydney to Santiago on "Gleason Map"     about 25,400 km

Great Circle Sydney to Santiago on "Google Earth"     about 11,400 km

I'll leave it up to you to see which fits the actual flight information!

Mind you I don't know of any large passenger that can fly non-stop for over 25,000 km!

[1] Note that while the Gleason's map is often used by Flat Earthers, it is not the "Official Map"!

[geckothegeek]

(1)Note that Gleason's Map is simply a  copy  of the well know Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.....Of the globe.
(2)Note also the distortion south of the equator and especially the size and shape of Australia.
(3)Note also that using this map, part of the flight would take place over the Northwest to the Southwest of the United States.
(4)Note also that there is no accurate flat earth map of the entire world...."As It Is"....."Official"....Or Unofficial.
(5)Note also that this map shows Antarctica as the "Ice Ring" due to the nature of the extreme distortion south of the equator.

[geckothegeek]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

Typical Flat Earth Answer would be :"QF28 does not exist."

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

Typical Flat Earth Answer would be :"QF28 does not exist."

I dont think the fact that it exists is the question, what I'd be more interested in finding is a flight that actually goes over antartica, from south america to australia. That would be the nail in the coffin per se, if it was something that ever existed.

[rockworldwide]

Ultimate proof? Fly across Antarctica. Better yet. Fly south from anywhere on the planet until you are actually flying north, crossing the Arctic North Pole only to return from where you took off. East to west flight would prove nothing, but South to North I think would. What say you?

[rabinoz]

(1)Note that Gleason's Map is simply a  copy  of the well know Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.....Of the globe.
(2)Note also the distortion south of the equator and especially the size and shape of Australia.
(3)Note also that using this map, part of the flight would take place over the Northwest to the Southwest of the United States.
(4)Note also that there is no accurate flat earth map of the entire world...."As It Is"....."Official"....Or Unofficial.
(5)Note also that this map shows Antarctica as the "Ice Ring" due to the nature of the extreme distortion south of the equator.

(1) Yes!!!   (2) Yes!!!   (3) Yes!!!   (4) Yes!!!   (5) Yes!!!

[rabinoz]

Ultimate proof? Fly across Antarctica. Better yet. Fly south from anywhere on the planet until you are actually flying north, crossing the Arctic North Pole only to return from where you took off. East to west flight would prove nothing, but South to North I think would. What say you?

There have been quite a number of Polar Circumnavigations (some by air):

• Sir Ranulph Fiennes with 'Transglobe' (1982): first polar circumnavigation by surface travel taking 10-years http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/.
  
• TAG Global claims record for polar circumnavigation

  From: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigationTAG Group vice president Aziz Ojjeh and a team of four other pilots broke a 31-year-old speed record for a pole-to-pole circumnavigation of the globe in late November. The TransPolar08 crew circled the globe over the North and South Poles in a Bombardier Global Express, chopping 95 minutes off the record previously held by a Pan Am Boeing 747SP that made the trip in October 1977

• From http://www.dommagazine.com/article/earthrounders-first-aerial-circumnavigation-globe
  In 1971, Elgen Long piloted his single-engine Piper Navajo over both poles. “As if that achievement weren’t enough,” says Glines, “Captain Long added four firsts: the first to fly around the world and land on all seven continents, the first to cross the equator at both the prime meridian and the 180th meridian, the first to fly across the Antarctic solo, and the first to solo from Antartica to Australia.”

As well as those trekking to the South Pole.

[Unsure101]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

Typical Flat Earth Answer would be :"QF28 does not exist."

I dont think the fact that it exists is the question, what I'd be more interested in finding is a flight that actually goes over antartica, from south america to australia. That would be the nail in the coffin per se, if it was something that ever existed.

My friend recently caught a flight from Santiago to Auckland, non-stop. I asked her if she could see Antarctica, but she said the flight path was too to high (in latitude).
Regardless, the flight time was about 13hrs. I know because I spoke to her when the was boarding in Santiago and she texted me when she got to Auckland.

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

Typical Flat Earth Answer would be :"QF28 does not exist."

I dont think the fact that it exists is the question, what I'd be more interested in finding is a flight that actually goes over antartica, from south america to australia. That would be the nail in the coffin per se, if it was something that ever existed.

My friend recently caught a flight from Santiago to Auckland, non-stop. I asked her if she could see Antarctica, but she said the flight path was too to high (in latitude).
Regardless, the flight time was about 13hrs. I know because I spoke to her when the was boarding in Santiago and she texted me when she got to Auckland.

Convenient

[rabinoz]

My friend recently caught a flight from Santiago to Auckland, non-stop. I asked her if she could see Antarctica, but she said the flight path was too to high (in latitude).
Regardless, the flight time was about 13hrs. I know because I spoke to her when the was boarding in Santiago and she texted me when she got to Auckland.

Convenient

Just what is an inane comment like that supposed to convey?

Are you doubting these flights New Zealand to/from South America, Australia to/from South America and Australia to/from South Africa?

Maybe a bit of evidence! I live in Australia and know how simply ridiculous any FE maps of this part or the world.

The most accepted maps can't even get the E-W dimensions of Australia (and South Africa, South America and New Zealand) anywhere near correct.

Start talking when you have something to offer, in the meantime the Heliocentric Globe explains everything we observe far better.

[Unsure101]

If you are at all interested in the nature of our reality and the existence of a creator, you have two hours to spare to watch this video:



I was a sceptic and an atheist until I watched this yesterday, but I am currently reconsidering this. I am having to come to terms with the magnitude of what this all means.

You can test for proof yourself like he says in the video: Try searching for flights that will head directly West from Buenos Aires to Wellington, NZ. You will find none, because the globe is not real.

I stopped watching when he got to the flights between Australia and South America.
Then looked up QF28, non stop from Sydney to Santiago, 14hrs.
Is this aircraft able to travel much faster or something?

Typical Flat Earth Answer would be :"QF28 does not exist."

I dont think the fact that it exists is the question, what I'd be more interested in finding is a flight that actually goes over antartica, from south america to australia. That would be the nail in the coffin per se, if it was something that ever existed.

My friend recently caught a flight from Santiago to Auckland, non-stop. I asked her if she could see Antarctica, but she said the flight path was too to high (in latitude).
Regardless, the flight time was about 13hrs. I know because I spoke to her when the was boarding in Santiago and she texted me when she got to Auckland.

Convenient

Yeah, it is convenient. I would say that the flight time basically rips the FE map to pieces.
Time for a new map?

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

If youre talking about the azimuthal equidistant map the only thing accurate on it is the longitude. I assume someone with enough skill could also make one that is accurate laterally but then again that still would be a projection, not a map.

I'm guessing the reason there isn't a flat map is because cartographers haven't been paid to make them for over 500 years. But there is absolutely no reason why the earth can't be accurately depicted on a flat surface, it's just a matter of funding, research, and competing with a model with 500 years of energy behind it.

[rabinoz]

If youre talking about the azimuthal equidistant map the only thing accurate on it is the longitude. I assume someone with enough skill could also make one that is accurate laterally but then again that still would be a projection, not a map.

I'm guessing the reason there isn't a flat map is because cartographers haven't been paid to make them for over 500 years. But there is absolutely no reason why the earth can't be accurately depicted on a flat surface, it's just a matter of funding, research, and competing with a model with 500 years of energy behind it.

There is every reason! The measurements of the real earth simply will not fit on a plane surface.

We ask Flat Earthers to come with their measurements of the obvious things like equator to north pole and equatorial circumference and we get ignored.
We make suggestions of measurements that can be done and we get ignored.
We point out that surveyors have made these measurements on the actual earth, so the measurements are available and we get ignored.

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

There, will that prompt some action or just more words?

[juner]

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

What you are convinced of is literally irrelevant. Not only is your opinion objectively false, but it is bordering on nonsensical. If that is the best you can come up with, then it is no wonder you are a round earther.

[rabinoz]

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

What you are convinced of is literally irrelevant. Not only is your opinion objectively false, but it is bordering on nonsensical. If that is the best you can come up with, then it is no wonder you are a round earther.

So, just words dismissing the idea of a map.
Look you don't have the slightest chance of getting wide acceptance without an accurate represention of your Flat Earth. Unless you have a map that people in general and navigators in particular can use to find their way around, with accurate distances, no-one that matters will take you seriously!
Some say, but you can always use GPS. Of course, but who developed it? Yes, your arch enemy, NASA!

But still, there will always be the need for celestial navigation, with a map that gives accurate distances.

You, just don't get the message! I guess it's easier to be a little fringe group. It doesn't really bother me, other than to stop the idea damaging career prospects of young people who may not have had the correct type of education.

Yes, I agree education should teach people to think for themselves and should not "indoctrinate".

Students should not be given just "facts", but the reasoning behind those facts.

So, if I have it all wrong, just what is the equatorial circumference of the earth? No-one else seems to know or care!

[andruszkow]

I am convinced that the reason the Flat Earth Movement will not put any effort into making a map is that so many appreciate that it can't be done!

What you are convinced of is literally irrelevant. Not only is your opinion objectively false, but it is bordering on nonsensical. If that is the best you can come up with, then it is no wonder you are a round earther.

That's just yet another portion of Teflon. There's nothing nonsensical in what you quoted at all, your response was pretty much standard though. Do you guys have a repository for standard comments to insert into your posts where everything else would fail?

He's actually asking simple questions. If FET had an ounce of seriousness to it, answering these questions should be trivial, with something else than the usual "if that's the best", "you make no sense" or "being eloquent hides the fact that we're delusional"-esk answers FE'ers seems to give, just by habbit.