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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2016, 07:26:21 PM »
There's plot holes everywhere. It's called "mystery".

Just grow up and accept that you'll never understand everything.

This is the only story type I expect gaping plot-holes is something like this where there are more holes than plot by design:

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2016, 09:01:25 PM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.

This whole line of arguing comes from me defending Rey and her ability to beat Ren, despite being less trained with a saber.
Ren was severely injured and too angry to properly concentrate. That's why he lost.

Probably hangry if truth be told.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #122 on: January 11, 2016, 05:00:06 PM »
Abrams talking about the common criticism of TFA being overly-derivative:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/awards-chatter-podcast-jj-abrams-853171

He does make some good points, mainly that the characters were different enough to make the movie feel fresh, despite its familiar plot.  It's interesting how he repeatedly downplays the importance of the dumb Starkiller thing, almost as if he agrees that it was unnecessary.  I wonder if Disney insisted that he include it.

In other news, remember this, ahem, "leak"?

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2nyd64/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_possible/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2o4hhp/rumor_potential_4chan_episode_vii_leak_part_2/

If this is legit, then there's a very good chance the film will end up being actually good.

lol@bullshit

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #123 on: January 11, 2016, 09:36:53 PM »
He does make some good points, mainly that the characters were different enough to make the movie feel fresh, despite its familiar plot.

Oh, you don't say. 

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It's interesting how he repeatedly downplays the importance of the dumb Starkiller thing, almost as if he agrees that it was unnecessary.  I wonder if Disney insisted that he include it.

Certainly possible, but unreasonable to assume.  My take on his comments on the Starkiller thing is that while it does go back to the well, it's used to further the story and the development of the characters in a fresh and invigorating way.

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'cause we all know it's gonna blow up. What you really care about is what's gonna happen in the forest between these two characters who are now alone."
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Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2016, 12:35:50 AM »
But it's not really used to further the story or develop the characters, at least not the planet-destroying part of it.  Han and Finn went there to rescue Rey, not to destroy or sabotage it.  The fact that it's about to destroy the Resistance's base is at best just peripheral to the main conflict with the characters, and at worst a distraction.  They could have taken that part out with only minor changes to the third act, and they probably should have.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 06:10:07 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2016, 12:58:00 AM »
They could have taken that part out with only minor changes to the third act, and they probably should have.

But why?  Is it bad storytelling to set what is meaningful to the main story against the backdrop of a larger conflict?  The story isn't *just* about Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren.  That there's a war going on is fairly important, and it would have been more of a mistake to just gloss over that.
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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2016, 04:17:46 PM »
Han and Finn went there to rescue Rey, not to destroy or sabotage it.
There was a scene where the Resistance was detailing how to destroy the base and they needed to findicate a way to drop the shields to allow the X-wings to attack the oscillator.  The only reason Finn was sent was the fact that he was previously stationed at the base and said he could drop the shields, Han flew him there because no one else is crazy enough to drop out of hyperspace within the atmosphere of a planet to get through the sub-light shields. Han doesn't even know Finn is exaggerating his story until they are about ready to enter the base and drop the shields.  He even makes a comment that people are counting their lives on Finn being able to do what he said he could. This is evidenced by them handling the shield before going after Rey. To say they had no intention of sabotaging Starkiller Base is absolutely wrong.  That was the main reason for them to go there.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2016, 04:18:54 PM »
Gah Saddam, did you even watch the movie?!

Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2016, 04:24:11 AM »
But why?  Is it bad storytelling to set what is meaningful to the main story against the backdrop of a larger conflict?  The story isn't *just* about Finn and Rey and Kylo Ren.  That there's a war going on is fairly important, and it would have been more of a mistake to just gloss over that.

The war itself is fine, but they didn't need to cram yet another planet-destroying superweapon into the series, especially when there wasn't enough time to really do it justice.  The base that the final battle was set in could have been used for, well, anything else.  Training and indoctrinating stormtroopers.  Manufacturing weapons.  Spying on the Resistance.  The threat of planetary destruction has been done to death by now, and I'm concerned that they'll cheapen it if they rely on it too much.

There was a scene where the Resistance was detailing how to destroy the base and they needed to findicate a way to drop the shields to allow the X-wings to attack the oscillator.  The only reason Finn was sent was the fact that he was previously stationed at the base and said he could drop the shields, Han flew him there because no one else is crazy enough to drop out of hyperspace within the atmosphere of a planet to get through the sub-light shields. Han doesn't even know Finn is exaggerating his story until they are about ready to enter the base and drop the shields.  He even makes a comment that people are counting their lives on Finn being able to do what he said he could. This is evidenced by them handling the shield before going after Rey. To say they had no intention of sabotaging Starkiller Base is absolutely wrong.  That was the main reason for them to go there.

I must have forgotten about that, but in my defense, there isn't much screentime devoted to showing them sabotaging the base, as the movie (wisely) focused on Rey's escape and the confrontation with Ren instead.  It really just goes to show how tacked-on that subplot was.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2016, 01:17:33 PM »
There was a scene where the Resistance was detailing how to destroy the base and they needed to findicate a way to drop the shields to allow the X-wings to attack the oscillator.  The only reason Finn was sent was the fact that he was previously stationed at the base and said he could drop the shields, Han flew him there because no one else is crazy enough to drop out of hyperspace within the atmosphere of a planet to get through the sub-light shields. Han doesn't even know Finn is exaggerating his story until they are about ready to enter the base and drop the shields.  He even makes a comment that people are counting their lives on Finn being able to do what he said he could. This is evidenced by them handling the shield before going after Rey. To say they had no intention of sabotaging Starkiller Base is absolutely wrong.  That was the main reason for them to go there.

I must have forgotten about that, but in my defense, there isn't much screentime devoted to showing them sabotaging the base, as the movie (wisely) focused on Rey's escape and the confrontation with Ren instead.  It really just goes to show how tacked-on that subplot was.
So you don't remember Chewie and Han sticking all those explosives to the base? This would have been before Rey and Ren left the base.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2016, 02:31:26 PM »
Saddam only remembers the parts he needs to remember in order to complain about it.
The Mastery.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2016, 02:53:19 PM »
I must have forgotten about that, but in my defense, there isn't much screentime devoted to showing them sabotaging the base, as the movie (wisely) focused on Rey's escape and the confrontation with Ren instead.  It really just goes to show how tacked-on that subplot was.

If I forgot the part of Forest Gump where he was in Vietnam, could I rightfully use my forgetting as a reason to justify that, that part of the movie was, "tacked-on?"

Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2016, 03:33:15 PM »
So you don't remember Chewie and Han sticking all those explosives to the base? This would have been before Rey and Ren left the base.

I do, but like I said, the movie doesn't spend much time dwelling on that, because it knows that what we care about are the characters, not the mission to destroy the base.

If I forgot the part of Forest Gump where he was in Vietnam, could I rightfully use my forgetting as a reason to justify that, that part of the movie was, "tacked-on?"

This isn't even remotely comparable to what I said.

Saddam only remembers the parts he needs to remember in order to complain about it.

Thanks for this.  It really added a lot to the discussion.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #133 on: January 13, 2016, 03:35:13 PM »
I do, but like I said, the movie doesn't spend much time dwelling on that, because it knows that what we care about are the characters, not the mission to destroy the base.
So in your mind, not dwelling on something is the equivalent of it being tacked on?
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #134 on: January 13, 2016, 10:13:51 PM »
I think it was convenient that they just happen to blow up every planet in the solar system except for the one Leia was on.
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I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2016, 10:43:01 PM »
What I think is weird is that this movie shows Han fire Chewies bowcaster for his first time. They've been partners for more than half his life and they've never been in a situation where he might have needed to use it up until now?
The Mastery.

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2016, 11:30:20 PM »
I think it was convenient that they just happen to blow up every planet in the solar system except for the one Leia was on.

I think she was in a different system.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2016, 02:28:05 AM »
On the notion of Snoke - I remember being really excited when I saw how huge he was, and then disappointed when I realized that it was just a hologram.  I'd love for him to turn out to actually be that size when we finally see him in person, although I sadly doubt it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 11:52:42 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2016, 02:39:54 AM »
On the notion of Snoke - I remember being really excited when I saw huge he was, and then disappointed when I realized that it was just a hologram.  I'd love for him to turn out to actually be that size when we finally see him in person, although I sadly doubt it.

I liked it at first, then thought it was a bit much and was relieved when it was a hologram.  I thought it would have been a little too absurd for me to suspend my disbelief.  But I think they could make him like 12ft tall in person and it would be very impressive too.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2016, 02:41:18 AM »
On the notion of Snoke - I remember being really excited when I saw huge he was, and then disappointed when I realized that it was just a hologram.  I'd love for him to turn out to actually be that size when we finally see him in person, although I sadly doubt it.

I'm afraid he's going to turn out to be, like, a dwarf when we see him in person.  It would be so cliched if they go that way.
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