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« on: November 01, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:51:13 PM by FE-Experiments »

Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 05:15:08 PM »
Polaris is very, very far away, so the effect of parallax is tiny.
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 05:18:56 PM »
No, Polaris is 390 (ish) light years away, the tilt of the earth always points in its direction on its trip around the sun (giving us our seasons), as 1 light year is the equivilent to 5.88 Trillion miles the 180 million miles diameter circle is virtually nothing in comparison.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 04:42:48 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2015, 07:17:18 PM »
Did you understand the part:

The movement of the dark side of the spinning and flying earth to the other side of the sun every six months (pointing to a different part of the night sky/universe)

They did.  They are saying that the distance to polaris is too great for an change in position of 2AU to matter.  The Greeks also couldn't see any stellar parallax, that's what led them to believe the earth was stationary, the common belief being that nothing could be so far away as to demonstrate no observable parallax.

I support FET, but the lack of parallax of polaris isn't a good angle, because the RET math works here as well.  Now, if one could prove that the stars are closer than RET says they are (as the Greeks believed) then we'd have something. 

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2015, 09:04:06 PM »

Because it's directly above the plane in which you are moving, imagine the planets including us revolving around the sun, whilst an imaginary line running through the equator would point to the opposite part of the universe at 6 monthly intervals (giving us the different constellations at these times) another line from the south pole through the north, given the distances (thousands of trillions of miles)  would to those in the northern hemisphere look relatively the same, if you look at the star charts, those constellations closest to polaris rotate around it during the year but many (the plough, Cassiopeia) remain visible, the further away are only available at certain times for the reasons above, this can be verified by observation through the year.
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2015, 09:23:36 PM »
Did you understand the part:

The movement of the dark side of the spinning and flying earth to the other side of the sun every six months (pointing to a different part of the night sky/universe)

They did.  They are saying that the distance to polaris is too great for an change in position of 2AU to matter.  The Greeks also couldn't see any stellar parallax, that's what led them to believe the earth was stationary, the common belief being that nothing could be so far away as to demonstrate no observable parallax.

I support FET, but the lack of parallax of polaris isn't a good angle, because the RET math works here as well.  Now, if one could prove that the stars are closer than RET says they are (as the Greeks believed) then we'd have something.

How is it possible that you can see a star (polaris) at the same position if the night side of earth is facing a completely different part of the universe every six months?

Polaris is situated over the North Pole.  It is always visible because it is aligned with the axis of rotation.  Both on a flat and round earth, this is always true.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2015, 10:28:29 PM »

Hmm.. You do.

In the plane that runs say from the sun through the earth and beyond you get what is called the processionary, So if you go out now and look to the East you will probably see the seven sisters (pleiades) rising, then taurus with the big red star Aldebaran and then later orion, these you don't see in summer, all through the year the stars that inhabit the same part of the sky where the sun & moon rise and fall, change, but above the plane less so, think about it.
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2015, 12:49:40 AM »
Did you understand the part:

The movement of the dark side of the spinning and flying earth to the other side of the sun every six months (pointing to a different part of the night sky/universe)

They did.  They are saying that the distance to polaris is too great for an change in position of 2AU to matter.  The Greeks also couldn't see any stellar parallax, that's what led them to believe the earth was stationary, the common belief being that nothing could be so far away as to demonstrate no observable parallax.

I support FET, but the lack of parallax of polaris isn't a good angle, because the RET math works here as well.  Now, if one could prove that the stars are closer than RET says they are (as the Greeks believed) then we'd have something.

How is it possible that you can see a star (polaris) at the same position if the night side of earth is facing a completely different part of the universe every six months?

Polaris is situated over the North Pole.  It is always visible because it is aligned with the axis of rotation.  Both on a flat and round earth, this is always true.

You are not answering the question. Do you understand that during the night you should be seeing other stars than six months earlier as the earth travelled to the other side of the sun?

How is it possible that you can see a star (polaris) at the same position if the night side of earth is facing a completely different part of the universe every six months?

Other stars should be visible as well which were not visible six months earlier.

I am answering the question.  It doesn't matter which direction the earth is rotated, no matter if it's flat or round.  Polaris is always over the north pole.  This never changes.  The earth may be facing a different direction, but the axis of rotation is not.  The axis of rotation does not move, so polaris is always situated above it, so polaris is always visible.  So are the stars surrounding polaris, like Ursa Major and Ursa Minor.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 12:52:48 AM by Tintagel »

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2015, 09:06:31 AM »
I saw a demonstration of a program called Stellarium.
The user took a position in the western U.S. and a point in Russia.
He demonstrated the sky from each point at 6 month intervals.
The same constellations were visible from each point, with only a minor counter clockwise position variation.
He called it the "Death of the globe" demonstration.
He never mentioned Polaris, but, I think that is what this poster noticed.
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2015, 10:34:37 AM »
Visualize it this way;
Imagine you have a circular field, 2 miles in diameter with a hedge round it, one end of the field is the gate, to the right over the hedge there is a storm on the horizon, to the left over the hedge there are some trees and behind you there is a shed with a basketball and a traffic cone in it. You have a trained ant. (bear with me here)

Take the cone and put it in the centre of the field to represent the sun, take the ball (the earth) and walk to the gate, put your ant at the 45 degree point, i.e. half way up from the horizontal plane and the top of the ball, looking towards the gate and tell it to stay put, but tell it also that north, is the top of the ball.

It is mid-day and imagine we are on the equator, so the sun is directly overhead, this represents Polaris.

Ask the ant what he sees when he looks at the southern sky, he will see the gate with the hedge spreading out both ways, looking to the west, because he is on a ball and north is at the top he will see the hedge & part of the incoming storm and to the east he will be able to see some of the trees, now ask him what he sees when he looks north, he will see the sun. He will not be able to see the cone in the centre of the field because we are emulating night.

Now take the ball and walk round the edge of the field, always keeping the ant towards the hedge, until you are at the shed, ask it the same questions, looking south he will now see the shed, the storm is now reversed and is to the east with the trees now to the west, when he looks north however the sun (Polaris) hasn’t moved, at any time on its trip around the cone, looking south his view will change but looking north the sun/Polaris stays in the same position. Simple.

To be true, the perspective is a little out in the above example. Because we have set the distance of the circle at 2 miles one AU equals 1 mile, therefore the distance to Polaris/sun is 92 million AU instead of the 25 million Au it should be, however the ball should probably be about 3mm diameter and the ant a bacteria, but do you get my point?   

« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 01:57:55 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 12:07:32 PM »

If you mean have I worked it all out for myself, then god no.

If you mean have I been a night sky watcher for 30 odd years and has everything been where it is supposed to be then yes.

Now!Did you get my point. (above)
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 12:35:09 PM »
As usual with you people the question you originally ask is answered (comprehensibly and quite brilliantly in this case) so you start shifting goalposts and looking shifty, I suppose I will be called a shill soon, shame.
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 04:52:28 PM »


Second, They are my questions and not yours. Are you so arrogant that your so called answer should end my questions?



Quite frankly, yes!

The question being, is the position of Polaris proof of a flat earth? Absolutely not as three people have explained, but you can't work out what we are saying so you keep asking the same question, I am overcome with weariness.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 04:56:19 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Is the position of Polaris proof for a flat earth?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 08:41:49 PM »
Perhaps this will help you visualize what is going on:


This is a star finder.  The white part is a disc of paper printed with all the stars visible in the northern hemisphere.  The blue paper on top of it has an oval-shaped hole representing the night sky.

To use it, you align the date and time that you are observing, and the part visible through the oval is your sky on that day and time.  It accounts for the face that the night sky in July is different from the night sky in January.  To see how, see where "January" is on the outer dial?  imagine turning the disc until July is in its position.  This will show you the corresponding sky six months later. 

Here's the important part: see the little brass thing in the center?  That's the pin that the whole chart rotates on.  It holds the chart together.  It is also the position of polaris.  Notice how no matter how far you spin the dial, that brass pin is always there.  Polaris is always visible. 

This chart works no matter what the earth's shape is.