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Offline Tom Bishop

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Is Satan really all that bad?
« on: July 07, 2015, 08:13:03 PM »
Has Satan really done that much evil? Turning into a snake and convincing people to take part in shenanigans doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. In the Bible Satan questions the status quo of an unquestionable tyrant, and is cast out into exile for his dissent.

In fact, Satan appears to be God's right-hand man behind the scenes that helps scope out the malevolent. Furthermore, it appears from the Bible that God is the questionable one. In the Bible God is responsible for the killing the first born of Egypt as a show of strength (Exodus_12:29), an untold number of Israelites for complaining against God (Numbers_11:1), and murdering a king who sought medical advice from a rival God (Kings_1:16).

What evil has Satan wrought in comparison?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2015, 08:15:52 PM »
Well, on the face of Christian dogma, he is responsible for original sin and therefore the fall of man which gave rise to every subsequent sin. So he literally spawned every human sin ever committed.
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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2015, 08:17:42 PM »
Has Satan really done that much evil? Turning into a snake and convincing people to take part in shenanigans doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. In the Bible Satan questions the status quo of an unquestionable tyrant, and is cast out into exile for his dissent.

In fact, Satan appears to be God's right-hand man behind the scenes that helps scope out the malevolent. Furthermore, it appears from the Bible that God is the questionable one. In the Bible God is responsible for the killing the first born of Egypt as a show of strength (Exodus_12:29), an untold number of Israelites for complaining against God (Numbers_11:1), and murdering a king who sought medical advice from a rival God (Kings_1:16).

What evil has Satan wrought in comparison?

Very interesting question. From a Jewish perspective, the Serpent, was, well, a serpent. Nowhere in Genesis does it say that the Serpent was Satan. In fact, according to Jewish understanding, Satan is not a Devil per se, and does not rule over a place of eternal torment. Hell does not exist. Satan is the Prosecuting Attorney of G-d's Heavenly Court, actually. He is an Angel and does what G-d tells him to do. Angels have no free will, and therefore cannot rebel in Judaic thought. Very interesting question, that.

Tom

Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2015, 08:22:05 PM »
This God incites/commands the Israelites to kill men, women and children who refuse to make room for the Israelites to live in their homes.

Deuteronomy 2:34-35; 3:6; 20:16-18 and 1 Samuel 15:2-3

If this War God exists, he is the same as the 'Devil'.

I think the story in the Garden of Eden is a metaphor.
Knowing good and evil is the duality that came into the mind. You cannot know what evil is unless you have an idea (concept) of 'good'. You always create the opposite.

We don't really know what is 'good'.  If you are not caught up with the good and the bad, you cannot do anything wrong.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 09:33:30 PM by Tom »

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Offline junker

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 09:10:15 PM »
This may be Tom Bishop's most reasonable post outside of FET.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 12:46:08 AM »
Satan actually convinced humans to become more than mindless creatures.  The fruit of knowledge allowed us to understand and learn, rather than simply follow orders like machine.

We owe him much.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 02:13:36 AM »
Satan actually convinced humans to become more than mindless creatures.  The fruit of knowledge allowed us to understand and learn, rather than simply follow orders like machine.

We owe him much.

But like the resident Jewish folk have already pointed out, the bible never indicates that the serpent tempting Eve was Satan/Lucifer/Devilman/what-have-you. Most of people's modern ideas of Lucifer come from Dante's Inferno, not the bible.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 02:15:08 AM by Rushy »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 03:17:21 AM »
Satan actually convinced humans to become more than mindless creatures.  The fruit of knowledge allowed us to understand and learn, rather than simply follow orders like machine.

We owe him much.

But like the resident Jewish folk have already pointed out, the bible never indicates that the serpent tempting Eve was Satan/Lucifer/Devilman/what-have-you. Most of people's modern ideas of Lucifer come from Dante's Inferno, not the bible.
Point.  But then what's the point of the serpent?  Just to say "Oh hey, snakes are bad"?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 10:38:38 AM »
If Satan got Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit then he should be revered as a hero of humanity, much like Prometheus who stole fire from the gods.

Of course, the whole thing could be poppycock.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 09:19:00 PM »

And don't forget that near the end of the year he makes an anagram of his name, disguises himself with a beard and gives all the children of the world presents.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 12:28:34 PM »
If Satan got Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit then he should be revered as a hero of humanity, much like Prometheus who stole fire from the gods.

Why?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 04:27:19 PM »
Because they brought us knowledge of good and evil thereby giving us free will over a dictator who would deny it to us.

Thork

Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 06:23:58 PM »
I really like Milton's depiction of Satan in Paradise Lost. It explains how God's most cherished angel was cast from heaven and the motivations of Lucifer for pitting himself against God. Formerly called Lucifer, he was the most beautiful of all angels in Heaven, and is a tragic figure who describes himself with the now-famous quote "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Satan is the anti-hero and it is difficult not to empathise with his position. It amounts to Lucifer (means light bringer in Latin) is the most beautiful of all the angels, has the most power and is closest to God. But it goes to his head. He knows how beautiful he is and starts comparing himself to God. When God casts him out of heaven, Lucifer is absolutely gutted about it because he loves god so much and can't believe god would do that to him. So he vows to destroy everything good that god creates.

You can read online. Its a poem and will take a bit of patience to fully understand but once you get into it, its a gripping tale. It has a sequel called Paradise Regained which is much easier to read.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58

Good description of the story on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 06:26:15 PM by Dr David Thork »

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Offline mister bickles

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2015, 10:32:02 AM »
die without Jesus Christ, go to HELL and you'll find out what he's really like!


*note*
it is, how-ever, a common mis-conception and fallacy that Satan resides in Hell;
@ the moment, he does not!
he resides some-where in "the second Heaven".....above the Earth's atmosphere or above the 'dome' that covers the Earth if you accept that model;
Hell (specifically: the Lake of Fire) is Satan's final destination after the Great White Throne Judgement as per the Book of Revelation;
before that, how-ever, he will be cast down to Earth from "the heavenlies", there to afflict humanity for seven years of Tribulation and, also, a short period after the millenial reign of Jesus Christ on Earth;
thus, the Scriptures say: Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (the Revelation of St John)
nisi Dominus frustra

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2015, 12:55:57 PM »

If you are truly representative of those headed for heaven, then Satan's got a new disciple in me.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline mister bickles

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2015, 01:34:06 AM »

If you are truly representative of those headed for heaven, then Satan's got a new disciple in me.

what's yr problem, eh?!?   ???

first off: you know exactly nothing abt me personally;

secondly: i'm only saying what the Bible (a book written in elementary school English/language-level) says;
nisi Dominus frustra

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2015, 07:53:05 AM »
Satan's got a new disciple in me.

This is the first album that Randy Newman released after he moved into black metal.

Satan’s got a disciple in me
Satan’s got a disciple in me
When the road looks straight and narrow ahead
And you're miles and miles from your burning bed
You just remember what your unworthy acolyte said
Lord, you've got a disciple in me
Yeah you've got a disciple in me

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Offline mister bickles

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2015, 09:40:15 AM »
oh.....BTW....speaking of musicians & such.....



(a bit of a pity abt John Lennon because, from what i have read of him, he just might have been on the verge of "waking up"...@ least to the New World Order......but....as the Scriptures say: now is the acceptable day of salvation; don't put off "getting right with Almighty God" through the shed blood of Jesus Christ....tomorrow might well be too late for you....)

nisi Dominus frustra

Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 06:43:59 PM »
I'm curious. If God is all knowing, then God knew what Satan would do, long before he made man or angels. And if God didn't want man to eat from the tree of knowledge, why put the tree in the garden? Why make a tree at all?
Reading the scriptures, God doesn't actually forbid man from eating the fruit. He tells them not to, cause WHEN they do, they will no longer be innocents. God says when, not if. God knew man eventually would. He created Satan to ensure they did.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Is Satan really all that bad?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 11:20:13 PM »
Because they brought us knowledge of good and evil thereby giving us free will over a dictator who would deny it to us.

Actually, if they didn't have free will to begin with they would have just obeyed God without question and not eaten the fruit.