[xasop]

Our Federal Parliament has brought itself to new heights of abhorrence. In a shocking twist after the Government and Opposition joined forces to censor the Internet earlier this week, they've now passed a bill in response to a High Court challenge which gives them unlimited power to detain refugees offshore indefinitely in squalid conditions. Of course, they've already been doing this for years (it was a policy instituted by the previous government), but now they're concerned that the High Court might rule the practice as illegal, so they're rushing to cover their arses.

What really takes the cake is that not only the government, but also the Labor opposition voted down various amendments from the Greens and the Liberal Democrats to reduce the scope of the legislation, including blocking a stipulation that would impose mandatory reporting of child abuse in these facilities. This is something I would have expected from the Abbott government, but not from Labor.

It's hard to express the horrific profundity of this legislation, so here's a speech from Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young on the subject, which is well worth watching:



If this is the way the major parties want to play ball, we need big change, and fast.

[Ghost Spaghetti]

Unfortunately, your country seems to be a being used as a model by various right-wing parties in Britain and the EU. Even one of the front-runners for the Labour party leadership, Liz Kendell, has said that she'd back an Australian-style immigration system.

[xasop]

Unfortunately, your country seems to be a being used as a model by various right-wing parties in Britain and the EU. Even one of the front-runners for the Labour party leadership, Liz Kendell, has said that she'd back an Australian-style immigration system.

It's not our immigration strategy that disgusts me most (although I do disagree with the system in place), it's the implementation details. They could work it a lot better than they are now by imposing time limits on incarceration, allowing free media access, imposing mandatory reporting of child abuse, and ensuring that the offshore facilities are run in accordance with Australian law. All of these things were proposed as amendments to yesterday's bill by either the Greens or the Liberal Democrats, and all were voted down by the big parties. That's what I really find shocking.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I've got nothing against detention of illegal type immigrants. In fact, my approach at the Mexican border would be to militarise it, and shoot every illegal adult attempting to cross. But to abuse children is unconscionable, even someone with extreme views like me agrees with that. Children cannot be blamed for the actions of idiot parents. And they should not be abused by others whilst in detention. That part is NOT fucking cool at all. 

[Vindictus]

I've got nothing against detention of illegal type immigrants. In fact, my approach at the Mexican border would be to militarise it, and shoot every illegal adult attempting to cross. But to abuse children is unconscionable, even someone with extreme views like me agrees with that. Children cannot be blamed for the actions of idiot parents. And they should not be abused by others whilst in detention. That part is NOT fucking cool at all. 

I'm hardly surprised by your position on this, but seeking refuge is not illegal. Australia has an obligation to grant asylum to these people if their situation warrants it. The only reason such a simple thing has become a huge shit show is due to the intense politicization of the issue on behalf of both major political parties, the media, and the intense lack of critical thinking on behalf of the populace.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

The key words being, "if their situation warrants it". What you define as warranting it, and what I define as warranting it, and what the Abbott Government defines as warranting it, are very possibly three different things.

You will likely find this extreme as well. I think the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to this country. Until then, the USA was like most countries. We encouraged immigration from countries most like ourselves, who would assimilate, and discouraged it from countries who were least likely to do so. The IRA 1965 reversed all that. Now we encourage immigration from countries least likely to assimilate well into our culture. Fucking stupid if you ask me. You don't see countries like Japan doing that, or even Mexico doing that. Costa Rica certainly didn't, when I lived there, and they had the most liberal immigration laws of any Spanish speaking country in the world.

We need to throw out that Act forthwith. We need to remove all illegal immigrants immediately. All Muslims need to be removed from the United States forthwith. Anybody that's already here legally can't be removed, of course. Australia should return to the White Australia policy forthwith, although its own Indigenous People should be treated with respect and dignity.

[Vindictus]

We need to throw out that Act forthwith. We need to remove all illegal immigrants immediately. All Muslims need to be removed from the United States forthwith. Anybody that's already here legally can't be removed, of course. Australia should return to the White Australia policy forthwith, although its own Indigenous People should be treated with respect and dignity.

How do you transition from "immigrants are bad" to "all brown people are bad"? There is effectively zero support for a white Australia policy among any political group that holds sway.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

And that is due completely to a lack of critical thinking among the  White voting population of the Realm. The same is true here, of course. Any culture  who, being the majority culture, voluntarily opts to become a minority culture, or at the very least, a severely weakened majority, is severely fucked up in their collective head, and basically deserves whatever happens to them.

That is why Israel is not stupid enough to let "Palestinians" vote. Who wants a bunch of Arabs being equal citizens of the Jewish State? Until such time as they can be removed from Greater Israel, it will be necessary to maintain the Occupation, and forcibly rule them, preferably with a harsh hand, until they learn to accept who is Large and In Charge. Once that lesson is learned, then the true learning can begin.

[xasop]

Australia should return to the White Australia policy forthwith

I strongly disagree with this. I view immigration as an economic matter, not a cultural or political one. Anyone who wants to come to Australia, regardless of ethnicity, religion, political views or country of origin, is okay by me provided that they are a net asset to our economy and that they peacefully respect the differing views of others. I would much rather we take in five hard-working, well-educated Muslims who are willing and able to support themselves than a single caucasian who is going to bum around and take advantage of our welfare system.

[Thork]

Immigrants harm an economy badly. They vampire it. It is the very reason countries like Poland in the EU are always so keen to enforce free movement of people. Its a revenue stream for them.

Here's how it works. Let's use England as an example. An English man, goes to work and supports his family and spends all the money he has back into the economy which allows other people to use the money and the economy works as people exchange goods and services.

Then you bring in an immigrant. Who works all week and then sends two thirds of his money back to his family in his homeland. That wealth is then spent into the immigrants economy. It is lost to England. Its gone. Now once you have several million people queuing at Weston Union to send £billions around the world every year, you can see the devastating effect it has on an economy. Great for the parasitic country providing the immigrants. Utterly destructive for the host nation.

You'll hear a lot of left-wing twaddle about how much immigrants contribute and how its a net positive figure. What that figure doesn't account for is the outflow of wealth and the huge infrastructure burden associated with the huge influx of people. The extra hospitals they need, places of worship, the public amenities, more roads, more schools, police, fire crews etc etc. All of that has to be found. When you bring these figures in, you can see why nations like Britain now say they can't afford services like the NHS and police and have to cut them back.

You do not have the right to work anywhere in the world. To use other people's roads, to take wealth from their economies, to demand changes to their law to accommodate you etc etc. Those people and their forefathers invested in that civilisation to make their lives and that of their children better. Not the lives of anyone on earth who fancies rocking up in a boat with a sob story.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

THORK, this could make history. I've actually agreed with twice. Wow. Very well said.

[xasop]

Immigrants harm an economy badly. They vampire it.

Um, no. Not every immigrant is the same. That's my whole point, actually.

Yes, some immigrants will come to a country just to leech off its economy, but that's exactly the kind of immigrant I'm saying we don't want. There are plenty of immigrants who move to Australia with their families simply to live a better life; we have quite a large Turkish population who are largely self-sufficient, for instance.

Indeed, I am an immigrant to Australia. How exactly am I "vampiring" its economy?

[Thork]

Have a wash. You stink of white guilt.

You are not an immigrant. You are descended from the men who founded a nation. Built its roads, its businesses, irrigated it, turned it into a first world country and brought prosperity. The people who were already there added nothing. They were running around naked, trying to hit enormous rodents with tummy pouches, in the head with bent sticks. They have benefitted enormously from the things your descendants brought. Healthcare, electricity, clean water, education and international trade and services. It is your people whose sweat, toil and work turned a wasteland into a fine nation. You don't have to roll over and allow anyone else to ask for a bit of the prosperity your ancestors built for you. Without your forefathers, Australia was just a squandered opportunity, wasted on the natives.

[xasop]

Without your forefathers, Australia was just a squandered opportunity, wasted on the natives.

That's interesting, given that none of my forefathers ever lived in Australia.

[Vindictus]

All those white people that came to Australia in the first fleet really ruined the country.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm with THORK on the fact that the Whites who went to Australia benefited the country. I don't know Parsifal's personal situation, and its not my business to know. I do agree there are two different types of immigrants. There are the kind who forsake their native land, go to another, and stay there, and contribute to the upkeep thereof. Then there are the type that he is referring to.

I oppose the latter type as much as he does. I am up with him on that, completely. As far as Caucasians going to Australia and forging a nation, he's right. Now, were the Natives mistreated? Yes, they were, and that IS unfortunate. But he is right when he says their culture was not exactly something to be admired. They were basically just naked savages running through the outback trying to sick kangaroos with spears.

[Rama Set]

They were basically just naked savages running through the outback trying to sick kangaroos with spears.

This is true if you are small-minded enough to only see that, ignorant enough to know nothing more and close-minded enough to be satisfied with that.

Your ability to take a reasonable stance and then support it with nonsense like the above is truly amazing.

[Thork]

Without your forefathers, Australia was just a squandered opportunity, wasted on the natives.

That's interesting, given that none of my forefathers ever lived in Australia.

Well some of mine did. You're welcome.

[xasop]

Well some of mine did. You're welcome.

Irrelevant. Are you going to tell me how I'm "vampiring" the Australian economy?

[Thork]

You or your parents arrived via the Australian points system - a system envied the world over. In other words the same system you earlier derided, assessed that you would not be a drain on the economy. You aren't a refugee who arrived on a boat and was allowed to stay by political pressure from bleeding-heart liberals and economically illiterate students who believe we should all be holding hands and singing kumbayah.