Offline Blanko

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2015, 09:29:43 PM »
For a seemingly anti establishment “free thinking” lot, the conditioning sure does click in with a resounding kill-switch clunk when ever your authorities decide to brutalise it's own people, way to go.

Yes, anyone that disagrees is clearly just brainwashed. Nevermind the fact that the anti-police crowd is doing a lot more conditioning than the pro-police crowd. After all, the people who exclusively read biased liberal media are the ones that are truly "free thinking".


Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM »
I don't think Casebolt really interpreted the teen fidgeting with his pants loops as reaching for a weapon.  It seems more like he didn't want them coming up on them, and so he pulled out his gun to scare them off.  Which might be fine with some of you, but virtually every police department in the country has rules against that kind of thing.  Cops are only supposed to draw their guns if they're prepared to use deadly force.  It's not a tool for casual intimidation.

As to the rest of it, Casebolt was clearly flipping out, and that alone is enough to say that he did an awful job.  Throwing a temper tantrum and doing good police work are pretty much mutually exclusive.  Being able to deal well with people and defuse tensions are just as much the job of a cop as physically restraining criminals and taking them to jail - arguably more so, because they end up doing much more of the former than the latter.  There were at least two other cops at the scene, and their behavior was markedly different to Casebolt's.  They didn't feel the need to yell and swear at bystanders.  They didn't feel the need to start making arrests.  And they didn't feel the need to whip their guns out - in fact, you can see one of them put his hands on Casebolt when he drew his gun, probably worried (as the poor teen no doubt was) that he was going to blast him away right then and there in his fury.  Chances are the entire thing would have gone a lot more smoothly if Casebolt had just stepped back and let his calmer colleagues take charge, rather than continue to aggravate the situation himself.

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Offline rooster

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2015, 11:05:19 PM »
What would you do in a situation where the girl will not sit down, will not leave, and will not calm down, Jura?

Just ignore her when you have a bunch of other people to deal with? Yeah, that's a possibility. She could have been agitating other people who are cooperating though.

So let's say you are trying to sit everyone down or disperse the crowd, but you have one person who will do neither and is ruining the calm you've already created. What do you do? She's trying to start a fight, what do you do?

Just a theoretical question, I can't be sure what happened since the guy with the camera wasn't very close. But you seem to completely disregard his previous attempts at getting her to cooperate and think he went straight into attack mode. So let's move away from him and just play a theoretical question game.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 11:42:24 PM by rooster »

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Offline rooster

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2015, 11:10:08 PM »
Saddam, a lot of cops usually step back and let the more assertive one handle things. So just saying that they're not doing what he's doing doesn't mean they disagree with what he's doing.

Also, let's try to refrain from reading Casebolt's mind. You have no idea if he did or did not think the teen was going for a gun. But it's totally reasonable to think that the teen did have a gun. Casebolt even sent another officer after that kid which further suggests he thought he was armed.

Casebolt didn't react in the best way, but I don't believe he should be getting as much hate as he is. Cops are humans and overreact, but no one was seriously harmed.

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Offline beardo

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2015, 11:39:33 PM »
He tried to talk them down. But some of them wouldn't comply.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2015, 02:16:45 AM »
Saddam, a lot of cops usually step back and let the more assertive one handle things. So just saying that they're not doing what he's doing doesn't mean they disagree with what he's doing.

But they weren't "stepping back" at all.  Casebolt just happened to be the focus of the video, for obvious reasons.  In fact, you can best see the contrasts between their approaches right around the one minute mark.  One cop is calmly warning an attentive and respectful audience not to go running from the police, until all of a sudden Casebolt barges into the frame, shoving people to the ground, sticking his flashlight in their faces, and screaming "Get your ass on the ground!"  It's hard to get more clear-cut than that.  Good cop and bad cop; Goofus and Gallant.

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Also, let's try to refrain from reading Casebolt's mind. You have no idea if he did or did not think the teen was going for a gun. But it's totally reasonable to think that the teen did have a gun. Casebolt even sent another officer after that kid which further suggests he thought he was armed.

I can't read his mind, no, but I doubt that an experienced cop wouldn't be able to tell the difference between ordinary fidgeting and reaching for a weapon.  That, and his body language felt a little off to me, like the way he was walking towards them while slowly drawing his gun with only one hand.  It seemed more like he was posing or trying to make an impression than genuinely responding to an armed threat.  Also, they went after him because it's illegal to run from the police.

Quote
Casebolt didn't react in the best way, but I don't believe he should be getting as much hate as he is. Cops are humans and overreact, but no one was seriously harmed.

I essentially agree with this.

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Offline rooster

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2015, 02:43:38 AM »
It's not illegal to run from the police.

Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2015, 02:46:50 AM »
Okay, well, it is when you're being detained.  So there. :P

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2015, 09:31:28 AM »
I don't think Casebolt really interpreted the teen fidgeting with his pants loops as reaching for a weapon.
Well, he directly and immediately responded to him reaching back to his waist. We can't know what he thought, but we sure know what he did.

It seems more like he didn't want them coming up on them, and so he pulled out his gun to scare them off.  Which might be fine with some of you, but virtually every police department in the country has rules against that kind of thing.
What the fuck are you talking about? He takes his gun out of the holster and toggles safety off. He never even points it at anyone. All he's done is he prepared himself for a potential threat, then understood there's no threat, and proceeded to put the gun back in.

Cops are only supposed to draw their guns if they're prepared to use deadly force.  It's not a tool for casual intimidation.
Yes, which is why he didn't pull the gun when he was just surrounded, but reacted immediately when the kid started reaching for the exact area where anyone would be concealing their weapons. And then he immediately put it back in his holster once the threat was clearly gone.

Throwing a temper tantrum and doing good police work are pretty much mutually exclusive.
What temper tantrum?

There were at least two other cops at the scene, and their behavior was markedly different to Casebolt's.
And in the next episode of "Saddam Says Irrelevant Shit", Saddam will analyse the behaviour of the kids who complied with the cops and sat down like they were supposed to! Stay tuned!

They didn't feel the need to yell and swear at bystanders.
What bystanders?

They didn't feel the need to start making arrests.
Yes, they did. You do realise we have a video which shows them cuffing multiple people, right?

And they didn't feel the need to whip their guns out
Do you think that might have something to do with them not being surrounded by a number of people and one of them reaching for what could have been a gun?

in fact, you can see one of them put his hands on Casebolt when he drew his gun
Yes, they were behind the kid at the time, they saw he has nothing there. Casebolt didn't, so they ran up all like "nah mate, shit's safe".

probably worried (as the poor teen no doubt was) that he was going to blast him away right then and there in his fury.
What fury? You're fabricating this so hard. I don't understand why. He's forceful, yes, but not angry.

Chances are the entire thing would have gone a lot more smoothly if Casebolt had just stepped back and let his calmer colleagues take charge, rather than continue to aggravate the situation himself.
Depends on your definition of "smoothly". Before he toughened up, something like half of the crowd ran away from the scene prior to being identified. If your definition of a smooth police intervention is "welp, the criminals got away, but at least we didn't roughen up a black girl", then... well, I hope that will be resolved in your police training.
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Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2015, 03:06:37 PM »
I'm not going to respond to each and every broken-down point there, but first of all, yes, Casebolt was angry.  That is not a man in control.  He was raging and fuming all over the place.  Being forceful or assertive is fine, but he was just plain mad.  If we don't agree on that, then I don't know what to say, because it seems like a pretty obvious point to me.  Only one person was actually  being arrested (the guy who took off running when the gun was drawn) - the others were just being temporarily detained while being warned not to go showing up to parties they weren't invited to and not to go running when the police show up.  That was what the calmer cops were doing before Casebolt barged in and pissed all over their efforts, apparently thinking that the warning would be better received if it was yelled at them while they cowered on the ground.

Not even Casebolt's lawyer is trying to claim that he did his job well:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/10/us/mckinney-texas-pool-party-video/

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 05:36:42 PM »
Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree, then. He's blatantly far from angry, and all I can do is question whether or not you've seen an angry person before. However, I do have to point out the absurdity of claiming that only one person got arrested in the video, when the video shows multiple people getting cuffed. That's just not a matter of interpretation.

Also, I don't find it all that surprising or relevant that the defence attorney claimed emotional toll being a factor. The defence in literally every single case in America does that. Also, given that this article contradicts the video on several points of fact (mostly as far as the girl's testimony is concerned), I don't think it deserves much attention.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:48:02 PM by SexWarrior »
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Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2015, 05:53:03 PM »
They were being detained, like I said, because ultimately crashing a party isn't the kind of crime that police typically throw the book at offenders for.  The article that I linked points that out:

Quote
Only one person was arrested after Friday's incident, and the charges against him were later dropped, police said Tuesday.

As for whether or not he was angry, I'd like to see other people weigh in on that, because I honestly think that you're the only person in the world who would judge our yelling, swearing cop to be anything less than flipping out.  And the reason I brought up what his lawyer said is because it's incompatible with your argument.  She's saying that he was upset and that's why he acted wrongly, whereas you're saying that he didn't act wrongly to begin with.

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Offline rooster

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2015, 06:12:31 PM »
I don't think yelling = anger. And I don't think this cop seemed particularly angry cause he wasn't always yelling or running. Maybe just frustrated.

My cop yelled at a few drunk homeless people when he was all "I'm the man in charge, mothafuckas" but he wasn't angry at all.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2015, 06:14:25 PM »
As for whether or not he was angry, I'd like to see other people weigh in on that, because I honestly think that I'm right because yes.
All right.

And the reason I brought up what his lawyer said is because it's incompatible with your argument.  She's saying that he was upset and that's why he acted wrongly, whereas you're saying that he didn't act wrongly to begin with.
See, this is where we differ. To me, it matters very little what someone said, unless it's backed by some evidence or logical reasoning. You seem to think that just because someone said something in an official capacity, it should be regarded as true. That simply doesn't work for me. If your argument is correct, you should be able to back it up with something verifiable instead of (or at least in addition to) resorting to "other people are saying what I think!"
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 06:18:43 PM by SexWarrior »
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Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2015, 06:44:20 PM »
Of course.  What was I thinking, trying to go up against the wunderkind extraordinaire pizaaplanet?  You who know more about law than lawyers, about law enforcement than law enforcement agents, about what it's like to be black than black people...silly me, I'll go now.  Don't let me hold up your confident swagger of knowing righteousness as you tell everyone what's what.





(pizaaplanet and I have hopefully made peace on IRC.  Don't read too much into this post.)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 07:17:34 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Lemon

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2015, 07:21:04 PM »
The state needs to use the police to enforce its will upon the people so that the national will may be obtained.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2015, 07:26:38 PM »
A poor effort. On a more serious note: I'm not sure why you keep making this mistake. Me asking for you to back up your claims doesn't mean I'm claiming to be superior, nor does it mean I know it all. It means exactly what it reads as: if you make a claim, and others find it hard to believe, the way to convince them is to substantiate it with reasoning or evidence. It's not something that I am (or anyone else is) perfect at, but some of us at least try.

You often assert things without backup (or with backup along the lines of "another person said so, and so it is true") and get offended when people disagree or question you. It would be so much more productive if you, say, highlighted something that, in your view, breaches police protocol, and then highlighted a piece of some document which asserts what said protocol is/should be. Instead, you resort to saying that I'm the only person who'd think the cop wasn't mad, and once that turns out to be incorrect, you throw cracked.com pics at me. This ain't the first time this happened, either.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 11:37:19 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Saddam Hussein

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2015, 07:28:25 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've thrown a Cracked picture at you.  At anyone, actually.

Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2015, 07:29:22 PM »
This comes with the caveat that 1) I don't know what was happening prior to the start of the video (the police were investigating some party crashers, yeah?), and 2) I don't know how police are trained to deal with this specific situation.  Perhaps this situation was enabled more by police regulations than this particular officer.  I don't know.

This looks to me like a police officer who was frustrated by a bunch of kids and acted like an asshole, and I think his behavior probably exacerbated the situation.  It look like he was getting frustrated by both the lack of cooperation from the people he was detaining, and by the people milling about taunting and insulting him.  He basically says this to the detainees when he starts lecturing them.  I don't blame him for being frustrated at that.  This is probably one of the shittiest things he has to do as police.  He's just trying to do his job, and a bunch of shitty kids are uncooperative and pretty much spitting in his face the whole time (not to mention surrounding him, which would probably trigger some genuine fear).  That would suck a lot.

That said, I still think he's acting like an asshole, and I think a big part of his job is to be the cooler head.  They're being super shitty, but they're just a bunch of kids.  Kids are shitty.  It appears on face to be kids doing what kids do: being places where they shouldn't be, running from authority, and being dicks about it in the process.  No need to flip shit over it.

Ultimately I think he just lost his cool a little bit and probably shouldn't have had to resign.  Police officers are people, and people lose their cool sometimes.  It's understandable.  He probably just needed a vacation.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: More 100% raccis cops
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2015, 07:31:49 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've thrown a Cracked picture at you.  At anyone, actually.
I no longer have access to deleted posts, but I'd say the source of your image macros (or their presence at all) is not the most important part of your "all hail my mighty opponent who knows literally nothing lol!" responses you resort to when you can't come up with a proper reply :^)
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