Offline Dog

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2015, 04:04:26 AM »
Magnetic force? No particle needed.
Particle needed to generate electric field = electron.

This is wrong. The electromagnetic force has a gauge boson which exchanges the force. It is called the photon. An electromagnetic field can be generated by any charged particle; electrons are the easiest to harness.

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Gravitational force? No particle needed.
Incorrect. This is an unanswered question in physics.

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Particle needed to generate gravitational field = any atom.

Or energy, or momentum.

It was pretty late when I wrote that, thank you for clarifying.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2015, 04:53:16 AM »

The atmosphere on Earth is gravitationally attracted to the Earth - that's why we have an atmosphere to begin with.

So why does Mars not have an atmosphere?
Mars does have an atmosphere.


What happened to the atmosphere Mars has been hypothesized to have? Did gravity stop working? Or is gravity theory an incredibly minute aspect of an atmosphere being maintained?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2015, 02:59:15 PM »
What happened to the atmosphere Mars has been hypothesized to have? Did gravity stop working? Or is gravity theory an incredibly minute aspect of an atmosphere being maintained?
I don't understand what you're asking.  Gravity on Mars is about 1/2 of earth's gravity so it has an atmosphere, just a fairly thin one.  One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2015, 04:13:46 PM »
One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2015, 11:56:25 PM »
One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2015, 12:50:22 AM »

One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.

So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?

Rama Set

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2015, 02:20:45 AM »

One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.

So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?

Gravity does not cause planets to rotate on their axis.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2015, 03:03:03 AM »


One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.

So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?

Gravity does not cause planets to rotate on their axis.

So if gravity didn't exist, planets would not have orbital rotation, but would rotate on their axis at constant velocity?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2015, 04:22:00 AM »
So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?
The electromagnetic field of a planet helps keep the solar wind from blowing its atmosphere away.

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?
No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline dave

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2015, 05:29:49 AM »
all of the above physics laws are correct....its just that the earth is flat because it got slammed and busted in half.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2015, 05:34:01 AM »
The electromagnetic field of a planet helps keep the solar wind from blowing its atmosphere away.

Can you quantify "helps?" It seems electromagnetism is stronger than gravity in this case.

No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.

How did that happen? Why hasn't it happened to Earth?

Rama Set

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2015, 06:13:19 AM »


One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.

So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?

Gravity does not cause planets to rotate on their axis.

So if gravity didn't exist, planets would not have orbital rotation, but would rotate on their axis at constant velocity?

Vice versa

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2015, 06:37:45 AM »



One thing that Mars does not have is a magnetic field, so the solar wind blew away a fair bit of the atmosphere that it used to have.

But it did at one point, supposedly. That is when it had oceans according to mainstream theory. Gravity didn't come into play...
???  Of course gravity comes into play.  Why wouldn't it?  It's just that gravity isn't the only thing that comes into play.

So gravity is strong enough to keep everything planted on the ground, but can't hold an atmosphere in place without the help of electromagnetism?

Gravity is what causes the motion of planets, no? So gravity was slinging Mars around the sun, causing it to rotate along with its core, generating a magnetic field. What happened? Did gravity stop working so the core stopped rotating, thereby eliminating its magnetic field? Or does gravity only work sometimes?

Gravity does not cause planets to rotate on their axis.

So if gravity didn't exist, planets would not have orbital rotation, but would rotate on their axis at constant velocity?

Vice versa

How is it vice versa? You stated gravity doesn't cause planets to rotate on their axis. Therefore, if there was no gravity, Earth would not be in orbit around the sun, but would still be rotating on its axis.

Having pointed that out, what causes rotation about the axis of Earth? Does it have an effect on the atmosphere of Earth?

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2015, 12:59:44 PM »
So, your statement "The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights." is an outright lie.

Let us go to the textbook on atmospheric physics.

The earth's atmosphere is a complex mixture of several "gases", either atomic or molecular in nature. Air consists primarily of N2 (78%) and O2 (21%), with small amounts of several other substances, including Ar (0.9%).


Let us take, as an example, the troposphere.

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/nats104/00lect25atmcompo.html

NITROGEN 78%
OXYGEN 21%
ARGON 0.9%


Now, the thermosphere.

http://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-gases-that-separate-by-weight-upper-layers-469654

Thermosphere: 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen


Heavier gases have a greater force of attraction, which is why you find the heavier gases (Oxygen for example) closer to the Earth.


Even in the troposphere, nitrogen is thoroughly mixed with oxygen.


If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.


Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?


Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.”  Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases.


Exosphere: Hydrogen, helium, carbon dioxide, and atomic oxygen.

http://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-gases-that-separate-by-weight-upper-layers-469654

You have a poor knowledge of atmospheric physics since you wrote:

The upper atmosphere contains only helium and hydrogen, which are much lighter gases.



You have dodged the very argument proposed there, the very fact that the barometer pressure paradox CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY SCIENCE.

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m. The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations. If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.



Did you know that tides also occur twice a day with 2 high tides and 2 low tides? Can you guess what causes tides? It's the gravitational pull of the Sun and the Moon on the Earth. Did you know that the Earth's atmosphere is also affected by the gravitational pull of our celestial neighbors? Now you do.

Please do your homework.

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/geol/tides.htm

This atmospheric tide is completely solar, the lunar component being too small to observe.

Do not mix different aspects of the tidal science: atmospheric tides and oceanic tides are two different phenomena.


Did you know that the Earth's atmosphere is also affected by the gravitational pull of our celestial neighbors? Now you do.

Your scientific reach is much greater than your scientific grasp.

The Earth is not rotating in space.
The Earth’s surface is composed of similar materials.
Solar heating and loss of infrared radiation cause a temperature gradient of hot air at the equator and cold air at the poles, forcing warm air away from the equator toward the poles.

The velocity should exponentially increase with altitude at the equator from 0 to 1054 mph. Based on the conventional Hadley cycle and Coriolis force model:

If there is a jet stream anywhere it should be east-to-west, at the equator, but it is not.
There is a Northern hemisphere mid-latitude west-to-east jet stream, but that is the wrong location and the wrong direction.
There is a Southern high-latitude east-to-west jet stream, which is the wrong location.
The highest steady winds at altitude anywhere seem to be about 50 knots, way below the rotational predictions.

Hence, it seems that the Earth is not rotating, but variable winds are caused by thermal and pressure gradients. Rotation only seems to be discussed in theory regarding the secondary Coriolis side effect, not the main feature, that is, the transition from an accelerated to an inertial frame. Remember, the Coriolis force is not unique to a rotating Earth; the same inertial forces would be present if the universe rotated around an immobile Earth. Mach’s principle is still in effect, as always. But how can inertial winds of 1054 mph not play a significant role in a predictive model of terrestrial air patterns? It seems that no matter which choice for the atmosphere one takes – that it turns with or does not turn with the Earth – it defies either logic or observation.

If we are on a rotating Earth with air subject only to gravity (i.e., the atmosphere is not coupled or bound by any forces to turn with the Earth), then we would experience tremendous wind problems, in which the spinning Earth encounters the full weight of the atmosphere. (NB: The atmosphere weighs more than 4 million billion tons.) The minor thermal differences between poles and equator would be wiped out by the blast of west-to-east air, that is, the collision of free air and the spinning Earth.

Conversely, if we are on a rotating Earth and somehow this atmosphere is turning with us, what is the coupling mechanism that enables it to do so? It must have some link to provide the torque to continue the coordinated rotation of the Earth with its wrapper of air. Would not a co-turning atmosphere and Earth mean nothing else could move the air? Otherwise, is not the air was acting as a solid, not a gas? No one has proposed a mechanism for this connection of the supposedly spinning Earth to the supposedly spinning air that is so strong that the atmosphere is forced to spin along with Earth, though otherwise it is free to move anywhere that gravity permits! We easily demonstrate the air’s freedom every time we walk through it or breathe it. Yet, we are told, the air obediently follows the Earth as it twirls through the heavens.



Also read the RESTORING FORCES PARADOX:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120726102954/http://www.realityreviewed.com/Restoring%20forces.htm
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 01:01:40 PM by sandokhan »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2015, 03:06:44 PM »
The electromagnetic field of a planet helps keep the solar wind from blowing its atmosphere away.

Can you quantify "helps?" It seems electromagnetism is stronger than gravity in this case.
Yes, electromagnetism is stronger than gravity.  However, it this case, the electromagnetic field of a planet acts more like a windscreen to keep the solar wind off of a planet.

No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.

How did that happen? Why hasn't it happened to Earth?
Why did it happen to Mars?  I doubt that anyone knows for sure, but probably has something to do with the fact that Mars is relatively small and therefore had a smaller liquid core, and smaller things tend to cool faster than bigger things.

Why hasn't it happened to Earth?  Again, I doubt that anyone is 100% sure, but some believe that there is a fair bit of uranium, or some other dense radioactive material) in the outer core and the heat from its radioactive decay is helping to keep the outer core from cooling off.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Misero

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2015, 03:33:14 PM »
Electromagnetism is preventing the atmosphere from being stripped away by radiation, not keeping it glued to the planet.
Nobody should ever follow my standard.  I am the worst moderator ever.
Yes, I'll still keep that in mind on this forum too.

Rama Set

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2015, 03:47:15 PM »


So if gravity didn't exist, planets would not have orbital rotation, but would rotate on their axis at constant velocity?

Vice versa

How is it vice versa? You stated gravity doesn't cause planets to rotate on their axis. Therefore, if there was no gravity, Earth would not be in orbit around the sun, but would still be rotating on its axis.

I had a dyslexic moment.

Quote
Having pointed that out, what causes rotation about the axis of Earth? Does it have an effect on the atmosphere of Earth?

It is hypothesized to be due to rotation in the gases that made up the photo-solar system being conserved. That might be partially due to gravity and partially due to mechanical effects and probably some other things I am not aware of. But Gravity is not the "engine" of the Earth's rotation.

The Earth's atmosphere rotates in equilibrium with the Earth.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2015, 04:45:22 PM »
No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.

How did that happen? Why hasn't it happened to Earth?
Why did it happen to Mars?  I doubt that anyone knows for sure, but probably has something to do with the fact that Mars is relatively small and therefore had a smaller liquid core, and smaller things tend to cool faster than bigger things.

But Mercury still has a magnetic field and is smaller than Mars.




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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2015, 04:55:40 PM »
No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.

How did that happen? Why hasn't it happened to Earth?
Why did it happen to Mars?  I doubt that anyone knows for sure, but probably has something to do with the fact that Mars is relatively small and therefore had a smaller liquid core, and smaller things tend to cool faster than bigger things.

But Mercury still has a magnetic field and is smaller than Mars.
Mercury's magnetic field is about 1.1% as strong as the Earth's.  What's your point?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2015, 05:08:27 PM »

No, the once liquid, rotating core of Mars cooled and solidified.

How did that happen? Why hasn't it happened to Earth?
Why did it happen to Mars?  I doubt that anyone knows for sure, but probably has something to do with the fact that Mars is relatively small and therefore had a smaller liquid core, and smaller things tend to cool faster than bigger things.

But Mercury still has a magnetic field and is smaller than Mars.
Mercury's magnetic field is about 1.1% as strong as the Earth's.  What's your point?

It's also strong enough to deflect solar winds, so 1.1% must count for something.

My point is that everyone here is talking as if there's a a definitive answer, and it's clear the best everyone can do is guess. The same thing FErs get criticized constantly for.