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Offline Misero

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Getting into making an OS
« on: February 15, 2015, 04:30:22 PM »
I figure I might as well do something useful for once, so I'm getting into making an OS. Where could one learn how to begin? I've heard Linux From Scratch is good, but are there any alternatives I should try? I've attempted something before, but my laptop with Xubuntu was destroyed and the structure for my OS with it. (Next time I'll remember to back it up.)
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Offline junker

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2015, 08:21:00 PM »
I figure I might as well do something useful for once, so I'm getting into making an OS. Where could one learn how to begin? I've heard Linux From Scratch is good, but are there any alternatives I should try? I've attempted something before, but my laptop with Xubuntu was destroyed and the structure for my OS with it. (Next time I'll remember to back it up.)

I am not entirely sure what you are getting at here. Are you talking about compiling your own OS from existing code, or building an new OS from the kernel up?

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Offline Misero

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2015, 08:47:57 PM »
I figure I might as well do something useful for once, so I'm getting into making an OS. Where could one learn how to begin? I've heard Linux From Scratch is good, but are there any alternatives I should try? I've attempted something before, but my laptop with Xubuntu was destroyed and the structure for my OS with it. (Next time I'll remember to back it up.)

I am not entirely sure what you are getting at here. Are you talking about compiling your own OS from existing code, or building an new OS from the kernel up?
Kernel up, the way LFS describes, at least.
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Offline la xasop

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2015, 09:56:22 PM »
I am not entirely sure what you are getting at here. Are you talking about compiling your own OS from existing code, or building an new OS from the kernel up?
Kernel up, the way LFS describes, at least.

This answer only confuses things further. LFS is about compiling your own OS from existing code.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Ghost of V

Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2015, 09:59:47 PM »
Is this your first time attempting something like this?

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Offline Misero

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 01:50:54 PM »
No, but it was a few years back, so things have changed, I assume. I meant that answer to say that I would like it not based off existing code, but I don't mind doing it off existing code. Was a bit vague there.
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Offline jroa

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 02:05:02 PM »
Everybody and their brother does it from existing code.  If you really want to make an OS from scratch, expect to work on it for 3 or 4 decades. 

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Offline la xasop

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 11:10:35 PM »
Everybody and their brother does it from existing code.  If you really want to make an OS from scratch, expect to work on it for 3 or 4 decades.

You can get a working OS in much less time than that. I haven't done it myself, but I've considered it, and 3 or 4 weeks is much more reasonable to me.

What you can't get easily is decent hardware support. There are so many drivers in modern operating systems that no new contender will ever be able to catch up, but if you're doing it for fun, that doesn't matter.

Anyway, I wouldn't call following LFS "making" an OS. It's just a Linux distro that you compile yourself.
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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 11:13:31 PM »
Microsoft has had a literal army of engineers building Windows for decades, and it still sucks. Do you still want to build an OS from scratch?

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Offline la xasop

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 11:22:11 PM »
Microsoft has had a literal army of engineers building Windows for decades, and it still sucks. Do you still want to build an OS from scratch?

Windows should not be used as a good example of anything. It has never been Microsoft's goal to make a good OS, only to make an OS they can sell.

A much better example is UNIX, which took about two years to become ready for public release, and steadily improved from that point. It was in active use at Bell Labs prior to public release, too.
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Thork

Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 07:50:38 PM »
Unix doesn't play games very well. Bit of a fail for a desktop OS.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 07:57:38 PM »
Windows should not be used as a good example of anything. It has never been Microsoft's goal to make a good OS, only to make an OS they can sell.

That makes it a good OS unless you're using some narrow definition of good. If Unix-like computers were more intuitive, more people would use it. Apple stunts its own growth by insisting it should be a "premium" product and no Linux distro has apparently found the ability to not require line input to do basic tasks like installing new programs.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:02:46 PM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 08:43:47 PM »
Most Loonix distros I've tried, you can use the GUI to do plenty of things an average user would in Windows. Neckbeards use Bash because of how intuitive and powerful it is, but it takes some effort; something the average user isn't willing to put in.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 12:02:37 AM »
If Unix-like computers were more intuitive, more people would use it.

I think you are confusing "intuitive" with "what I am used to".  If Windows was intuitive, nobody would ever need to take a basic computer class. 

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 01:15:23 AM »
I think you are confusing "intuitive" with "what I am used to".  If Windows was intuitive, nobody would ever need to take a basic computer class.

Any "basic computer class" I took involved how to use Windows programs, not Windows itself.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 09:41:07 AM »
I think you are confusing "intuitive" with "what I am used to".  If Windows was intuitive, nobody would ever need to take a basic computer class.

Any "basic computer class" I took involved how to use Windows programs, not Windows itself.

ITT: Rushy thinks more people use Windows because it's more intuitive.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 12:25:47 PM »
I think you are confusing "intuitive" with "what I am used to".  If Windows was intuitive, nobody would ever need to take a basic computer class.

Any "basic computer class" I took involved how to use Windows programs, not Windows itself.

I have dad several basic computer classes over the years that covered several different OSs, and they all start out with the basics, like navigating the file system,  opening/closing/saving files, switching users, you know... the basics.

It is not intuitive to click the Start button in order to shutdown a computer, or to right click on My Computer in order to navigate to the Device Manager.  Nothing about Windows is any more intuitive than any other operating system; in fact, if you took people off the street who had never used a computer in their lives and sat them in front of different operating systems, I personally think that the learning curve would actually be lower for the *nix systems, provided that they are using a friendly desktop. 

By the way, I used to teach a basic computer class for adults, and I had to show people how to log in, maximize and minimize windows, and even how to shut a computer down, and this was on Windows systems.  Once they learned the basics, the I could teach them how to do more advanced stuff, like checking email or creating a document. 

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 06:40:05 PM »
Could you even make an intuitive UI?  Everyone is different in what they think should happen to do something.  So aside from tapping into their brains, I don't see any way to make any UI completely intuitive. 

Thork

Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 06:57:03 PM »
Could you even make an intuitive UI?  Everyone is different in what they think should happen to do something.  So aside from tapping into their brains, I don't see any way to make any UI completely intuitive. 
"Computer. Open a new document. Its going to be a letter. Put my address on the right and Anna Wilkes on the left. Sign it from me and date it. Open my e-mail and find the e-mail John Smith sent me last week and use that as the body for the letter. Change it from first person to third person and then .pdf it and send it Via E-mail to Anna."
"John Smith sent you 2 e-mails last week"
"Yeah, the longer one about the BBC"
"Message sent"

It could be far more intuitive. Computers just don't work that way yet.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Getting into making an OS
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 06:59:50 PM »
That doesn't sound intuitive, it sounded like the user gave a long stream of verbal commands, which computers can do, they simply have to be programmed as macros first.