*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« on: December 18, 2022, 11:37:20 AM »
Hey! I am not a flat Earther by any means. I am not here to be rude or anything of that nature. I want to ask a genuine question that flat Earthers have always struggled to explain to me. I thought asking on the forum dedicated to flat Earth believers might actually get me an answer to my question. A little bit about myself before I start, my name is Everette and I am a 15-year-old amateur astrophotographer. I image deep space objects, such as nebulae and galaxies, and venture into planetary, solar, and lunar imaging. A lot of people insult my knowledge based on my age, and I do not wish for that. I want an in-depth answer (if possible) while keeping it civil and restraining insults. My questions are, what are the explanations for the phases of Venus and the existence of lunar eclipses on the moons of other planets? Venus is not currently at a good time to see a blatantly obvious phase, so I will use someone else's image from around July of this year. This is an amateur planetary photographer like myself, and they are not someone lying to you or creating fake images.



Here's another Venus image from someone else from January of this year.



Here's a video of one of Jupiter's Galileon moons, Ganymede, being eclipsed by Jupiter on September 17 of this year. Again, this is not my video, because I was unfortunately not lucky enough to have clear conditions this night, but is still an amateur planetary photographer like myself. (I'm still really devastated over this night lol)
 
Any explanations are greatly appreciated! Thank you, if you took the time to examine or respond to my post.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2022, 11:47:19 AM by Everette Graham »
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2022, 09:12:49 AM »
Perhaps it would help if you explained what it is you need explained, and why. Questions along the lines of "If the Earth is flat, then explain fried chicken" tend to be ignored, because they don't show much promise.

It would also be helpful if you explained your current understanding of lunar phases is in FET.

You've spent a very long time talking about yourself and how you don't think anyone is lying to us about photographs, but you went into remarkably little detail on the actual subject you'd like to see discussed.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2022, 10:16:02 AM »
Perhaps it would help if you explained what it is you need explained, and why. Questions along the lines of "If the Earth is flat, then explain fried chicken" tend to be ignored, because they don't show much promise.

It would also be helpful if you explained your current understanding of lunar phases is in FET.

You've spent a very long time talking about yourself and how you don't think anyone is lying to us about photographs, but you went into remarkably little detail on the actual subject you'd like to see discussed.
I'm not one of those people. You are mislabeling me as one of those globe Earthers and I find it quite offensive, actually. I think I explained my question very well. It wasn't  "If the Earth was flat, then explain the phases of Venus and lunar eclipses on other planets!!!", it was "Can a flat Earther give me a genuine answer to how the phases of Venus and lunar eclipses on other planets work?" I am trying to learn more about flat Earth theory, and I felt like coming to the website made for flat Earthers would get me an answer. You making a snobby comment toward me and mislabeling me is not giving me an answer, and it's making me give up the hope I had for an in-depth explanation for my questions. I started this thread with nothing but respect. Thank you for your time, but if you don't want to discuss the questions at hand and go off-topic, I will not continue our conversation any further.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2022, 11:51:23 AM »
I think I explained my question very well.
That's great that you think that. I'm very happy for you. Now, if you're willing to fill the gaps I've outlined, we can proceed. Otherwise, I can't help you, and I doubt others will either. We will not be guessing what your question might be if you're unwilling to specify.

I felt like coming to the website made for flat Earthers would get me an answer.
It might. It just depends on whether you specify your question to the extent that others can follow it. You thinking and feeling that your question was good is not very helpful to anyone else.

It wasn't  "If the Earth was flat, then explain the phases of Venus and lunar eclipses on other planets!!!", it was "Can a flat Earther give me a genuine answer to how the phases of Venus and lunar eclipses on other planets work?"
Semantically, your two examples are identical. Crucially, they have the exact same gaps in them. State what it is you'd like to understand. Bonus points if you tell us how well you understand lunar eclipses in FET to begin with.

Thank you for your time, but if you don't want to discuss the questions at hand
Of course, the opposite is the case - I reached out and offerred you some help with rendering your question productive. You can choose to take that advice and move the conversation forward. Otherwise, have a great rest of your day!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 11:58:28 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2022, 02:13:32 PM »
Thank you. My question was not about lunar eclipses on Earth, however. I am not highly educated on how flat Earthers think that lunar eclipses on Earth exist, because none of them have ever given me a sensical answer that doesn't involve inconsistencies, lies, going off-topic, or showing something that doesn't disprove the globe Earth's lunar eclipses. For example, one time, I had someone show me a flat folder with a straight edge between a light source and a ball and said it meant that it would be possible for Earth to be flat. Again, all this means is that that is possible with a flat Earth (rectangular, with a straight edge), but it leaves them with an inconsistency in their model. Obviously, I am referring to the folder being in between the light source and the ball. Every flat Earth model I have ever been familiar with shows a local sun (light source) and moon. Speaking of the sun, I have also not seen a model that explains the amounts of night and day and seasons simultaneously while also showing no illumination of Point Barrow, AK during winter, but that is off-topic and no discussion is necessary if you don't want to go there. If you would like to educate me on the lunar eclipses on a flat Earth that would be great, but my main concern and my original question were about the lunar eclipses on other planets. For example, Jupiter. You can very obviously see the moons of Jupiter being eclipsed by Jupiter. You also see the moons of Jupiter eclipsing Jupiter extremely often. Anywhere from one time within a couple of days to multiple times in one day. Where is the light source to cause the eclipses? Where do you believe the other planets are located? Can you also explain the phases of Venus and Mercury, and why they're the only planets we see go through a full phase cycle? Can you also explain all of those at the same time and have all of the explanations work simultaneously rather than having a single explanation for one question at a time? Thank you! Here's (not my best) image of Jupiter's Galileon moon, Io, eclipsing it with another Galileon moon, Callisto, visible in the top left corner.

My main questions for this whole thread are, what is the explanation of the phases of Venus and Mercury, but no other planets, and what is the explanation for the eclipses on other planets? Eclipses as far as both solar and lunar. Also, I expect the explanations to work simultaneously. I just want a better and more in-depth understanding of flat Earth that doesn't come from middle-aged folk on TikTok who can't think for themselves. The point of this post is not to disprove flat Earth, but rather to understand it. For me to understand the theory and it have legitimate credibility, everything that I just listed must be explained using your model, and only your model, and everything must also function simultaneously under your theory. I must state again, nothing should be explained one at a time if that causes inconsistency. Everything HAS to work simultaneously. Thank you for your time! No disrespect or offense was intended in this post, I just want a better understanding and a better-educated mindset on flat Earth.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2022, 03:55:50 PM »
Your inquiry is most welcome. However, it is the RE who cannot explain at all the nature of the phases of Venus.

Here is the Schroeter effect:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722427#msg1722427

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2022, 10:28:56 PM »
My question was not about lunar eclipses on Earth
I know. Your question was incomplete, and it revealed both arrogance and a lack of prior research, but it was not unclear.

I am not highly educated on how flat Earthers think that lunar eclipses on Earth exist
This would be a good start. You are, generally speaking, expected to familiarise yourself with the basics of FET (and, in this case, EAT) before posting here. The Wiki will be of some assistance here.

For example, one time, I had someone show me [...]
Please, keep the pointless anecdotes to a minimum. Nobody cares.

none of them have ever given me a sensical answer that doesn't involve inconsistencies, lies, going off-topic, or showing something that doesn't disprove the globe Earth's lunar eclipses
Earlier in this thread you have requested that you be approached respectfully. Practise what you preach. If you cannot have a discussion without accusing someone of lying before they even spoke, you are probably not going to have a very productive discussion.

Also, I expect [things]
You are in no position to make demands. Please learn how to conduct yourself in a debate before participating it one. You specifically asked not to be treated like a child; so don't act like one.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 10:36:11 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2022, 11:27:28 PM »
Your inquiry is most welcome. However, it is the RE who cannot explain at all the nature of the phases of Venus.

Here is the Schroeter effect:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722427#msg1722427

I did not ask for you to tell me this. I'm very aware of the Schroeter effect. This does not disprove GE. I already made a comment about people responding with something that goes against the globe Earth (when it doesn't). I asked for you to explain how the phases of Venus and Mercury work on the flat Earth model. I want to become more educated on the topic, so you responding with something like the Schroeter effect gets me nowhere and it comes across like you're avoiding responding to my question. Thank you for your time, but if you do not want to answer my question, I do not wish to further continue this conversation with you.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2022, 12:28:02 AM »
Quote
Earlier in this thread you have requested that you be approached respectfully. Practise what you preach. If you cannot have a discussion without accusing someone of lying before they even spoke, you are probably not going to have a very productive discussion.

I have never accused you of lying. I was never disrespectful to you. When I was referring to the flat Earthers, I was referring to all of the flat Earthers I've ever talked to in the past. I would not accuse you of lying or being nonsensical unless you lied to me and you made nonsensical claims.

Quote
You are in no position to make demands. Please learn how to conduct yourself in a debate before participating it one. You specifically asked not to be treated like a child; so don't act like one.

Thank you for mentioning this. My point of that demand was that if you cannot simultaneously explain all of my questions at once, your claim is not credible. For anyone to reasonably believe a model that represents your existence, every aspect of life must be explained well and explained simultaneously. The GE has no problem with this, and I wanted to be more educated on how flat Earthers explain certain things as such. Again, without coming across as one of those people that are "if this is this then explain this". I simply want to be educated straight from the source. I came here believing the flat Earthers here could actually answer my questions because in the other threads they appear more intellectual and educated on their own model than most of the other ones I come across.

Quote
This would be a good start. You are, generally speaking, expected to familiarise yourself with the basics of FET (and, in this case, EAT) before posting here. The Wiki will be of some assistance here.

I took a gander at your explanations of lunar eclipses on Earth. The Antimoon, really? With all due respect, don't you see the problem with this? It's something you can't even see, yet you propose it's real. If it's real, find it and show it to us. That's how we found Neptune, there were irregularities in Uranus' orbit, and astronomers calculated its exact position at a precise time, and non-coincidentally discovered Neptune without even knowing if it existed. (That is off-topic, I know, my apologies.) If you can do this with your Antimoon, cheers to you, my friend. The reason why it looks like this moon comes from nowhere and is invisible during a solar eclipse is that the moon is behind the atmosphere, so during a new moon, it seems like the moon is invisible. I am not here to talk about lunar or solar eclipses on Earth, however. Again, I want to talk about eclipses on other planets. We can observe these eclipses, we have done it for many years. I also want to be more educated on the phases of Venus, because I still haven't been able to find a FE explanation. Not directing this toward you, but anytime I have ever asked a flat Earther about the phases of Venus, the responses are inconsistent with their model, they lie, go off-topic, or they will straight up block me. Without trying to sound demanding, if my questions cannot all be explained simultaneously, I cannot believe that your model is credible. I am here simply for educational purposes regarding FE and the FE model. Thank you for your time, I hope you can respond!  ;D
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2022, 06:29:19 AM »
But it does disprove mainstream astrophysics since it cannot be explained by astronomers.

Did you read the links I provided to you? Had you done that, you'd have discovered exactly how the phases of Venus are explained in GE, and also why they cannot be explained by the RE:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120726101423/http://www.realityreviewed.com/Schroter.htm

Can you explain the Allais effect, the fact that the Moon does not cause the solar eclipse?

As for the Tychonic model of Geocentrism, if one uses the same elliptical orbits of Kepler, the result is that two epicycles in the Ptolemaic system will translate into one ellipse, per planet, in the Tychonic system. Thus, around the sun, Mercury and Venus would each have a perigee and an apogee, and each locus of points along that polarity would show the respective phases of Mercury and Venus, as viewed from earth. (R. Sungenis)

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2022, 09:26:10 AM »
I was never disrespectful to you.
Something you're overdue to learn: it doesn't matter if you state how respectful you're being. Nobody cares. You need to learn to conduct yourself in such a way that you actually come across as respectful to others. Just saying "I'm not being disrespectful" is only likely to further aggravate people.

My point of that demand
Your point of demand needs to be dropped. You're in no position to make or state demands.

The GE has no problem with this
Oh, sweet summer child. I would once again strongly recommend that you familiarise yourself with the subject you're debating before jumping right into the forum. Repeatedly declaring yourself to be ignorant of the subject and to have made your mind up does not inspire confidence.

I simply want to be educated straight from the source. I came here believing the flat Earthers here could actually answer my questions because in the other threads they appear more intellectual and educated on their own model than most of the other ones I come across.
That's not how it works, and even a rudimentary read through a few of the threads here would have told you that much. You're expected to educate yourself first, then come here if there's anything you want to discuss.

I took a gander at your explanations of lunar eclipses on Earth. The Antimoon, really?
Right. So you've read a couple of sentences on the history of FET, immediately stopped, and came here to write a long paragaph about how you don't like that history.

You like the sound of your own voice (or, well, the apperance of your own typing) a little too much. Spare us the lenghty emotional diatribes and just continue reading. I did specifically suggest you'll need to know EAT, did I not? Did you manage to read through that? It appears before the Shadow Object section of the Wiki. Why did you seemingly ignore it?

I am not here to talk about lunar or solar eclipses on Earth, however. [...] [they] go off-topic [...]
It's not off-topic. The fact that you don't see the connection is of no interest to me. I'm beginning to suspect that the same was true of others who, in their frustration, kept trying to point you towards first principles while you kept ignoring their material, calling them liars, and explaining that you are very respectful.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 09:32:46 AM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Magicalus

Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2022, 05:28:02 AM »
I am a 15-year-old ... A lot of people insult my knowledge based on my age, and I do not wish for that.

If you don't want people to insult your intelligence based on your age, why would you tell us your age?

Plus, giving internet strangers your age could end poorly in a myriad of ways.

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2023, 12:51:27 AM »
So you've read a couple of sentences on the history of FET, immediately stopped, and came here to write a long paragaph about how you don't like that history.

Okay, so I've done some research and I think that I understand the whole lunar eclipses due to electromagnetic acceleration concept. Simple question if you wouldn't mind answering, do you believe that this also applies to other planets? Solar and lunar eclipse-wise? Could you please elaborate if so?
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2023, 12:53:10 AM »
I am a 15-year-old ... A lot of people insult my knowledge based on my age, and I do not wish for that.

If you don't want people to insult your intelligence based on your age, why would you tell us your age?

Plus, giving internet strangers your age could end poorly in a myriad of ways.
I do not mind my age being known. I simply request a civil conversation, if that is not possible, I do not wish to further continue the conversation.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2023, 01:01:07 AM »
Can you explain the Allais effect, the fact that the Moon does not cause the solar eclipse?

I am going to stop you right there. There is no fact here. The Allais effect is completely alleged and has never been consistently measured. Citation of your claim is kindly requested.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 06:40:46 AM by Everette Graham »
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2023, 10:32:30 PM »
You like the sound of your own voice (or, well, the apperance of your own typing) a little too much. Spare us the lenghty emotional diatribes and just continue reading. I did specifically suggest you'll need to know EAT, did I not? Did you manage to read through that? It appears before the Shadow Object section of the Wiki. Why did you seemingly ignore it?

I have one more question I would like to ask about this electromagnetic acceleration theory. You come up with this theory because you need an explanation for an observable phenomenon, correct? This theory is an explanation as to how light works, so would this theory also work when applied to everything else we already know about light? Thank you!
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2023, 11:52:29 PM »
You come up with this theory because you need an explanation for an observable phenomenon, correct?
No. That's not how Zeteticism works.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2023, 01:16:10 AM »
No. That's not how Zeteticism works.
Okay, so are you suggesting that experiments have been performed that suggest that electromagnetic acceleration could be the cause of lunar eclipses? I'm not seeing anything about the experimentation of this on the wiki. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Also, I'm asking again, because this is an explanation of how light works, how can this also apply to everything else we know about light? Do you also believe that electromagnetic acceleration is the cause of lunar eclipses on other planets? Thanks!
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2023, 09:04:05 AM »
Okay, so are you suggesting that experiments have been performed that suggest that electromagnetic acceleration could be the cause of lunar eclipses?
I'm not suggesting that. Consider dropping the endless guesswork and simply spending more time studying the subject you're interested in. It will be much more productive than this game of 20 questions.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline Everette Graham

  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Amateur Astrophotographer
    • View Profile
    • Graham Astro
Re: Phases of Venus & Lunar Eclipses on Other Planets
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2023, 12:00:03 AM »
I'm not suggesting that. Consider dropping the endless guesswork and simply spending more time studying the subject you're interested in. It will be much more productive than this game of 20 questions.
I looked into your theory of electromagnetic acceleration. Is there not just a simple yes or no answer to whether or not this applies to other planets and whether or not this can be applied to everything else we know about light?
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens