*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 4177
    • View Profile
Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« on: December 16, 2022, 05:14:43 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/tech/musk-censors-press/index.html

Elon Musk cares very passionately about free speech. Just as long as he agrees with what you say. Another lousy Republican hypocrite. He's made Twitter a cesspool.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8533
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2022, 05:15:55 PM »
If you don't like it, start your own social network, sweaty.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16061
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2022, 05:55:23 PM »
I strongly recommend https://twitterisgoinggreat.com/ for all your Twitter news
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline honk

  • *
  • Posts: 3325
  • resident goose
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2022, 07:34:02 PM »
If you don't like it, start your own social network, sweaty.

There is no conflict between recognizing that Musk has the legal right to ban anyone he wants to and also that he's a huge hypocrite for disregarding his previous assertions that only outright illegal speech would be banned.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8533
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2022, 08:31:38 PM »
If you don't like it, start your own social network, sweaty.

There is no conflict between recognizing that Musk has the legal right to ban anyone he wants to and also that he's a huge hypocrite for disregarding his previous assertions that only outright illegal speech would be banned.

And yet, Twitter randomly banning people It Doesn't Like wasn't really a problem when Musk wasn't the one doing it. It's only now that it generates headlines on other sites. Musk being a hypocrite is only tangential to the actual problem people are having with Twitter. More importantly, had he not become a hypocrite and Twitter turned into a pool of slurs, people like yourself and Roundy would be crying about it anyway, so what's the point? Either he keeps free speech (and he gets hate for it) or he changes his mind and walks it back (and he gets hate for it).

My only concern is that Musk is falling into the trap of actually caring what people on Twitter think, which is made all the worse by the fact that he owns the website.

*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 4177
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2022, 10:19:47 PM »
If you don't like it, start your own social network, sweaty.

There is no conflict between recognizing that Musk has the legal right to ban anyone he wants to and also that he's a huge hypocrite for disregarding his previous assertions that only outright illegal speech would be banned.

And yet, Twitter randomly banning people It Doesn't Like wasn't really a problem when Musk wasn't the one doing it. It's only now that it generates headlines on other sites. Musk being a hypocrite is only tangential to the actual problem people are having with Twitter. More importantly, had he not become a hypocrite and Twitter turned into a pool of slurs, people like yourself and Roundy would be crying about it anyway, so what's the point? Either he keeps free speech (and he gets hate for it) or he changes his mind and walks it back (and he gets hate for it).

My only concern is that Musk is falling into the trap of actually caring what people on Twitter think, which is made all the worse by the fact that he owns the website.

Saying that Twitter is now a cesspool was editorializing, for sure. Pointing out Musk's hypocrisy in this matter is a valid criticism that stands on it's own merit. Ideally Twitter probably shouldn't be banning anyone whose posts aren't dangerous or illegal. But saying you're setting out to save free speech and then controlling what people are allowed to say is kinda heinous, and should be called out.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Rama Set

Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2022, 10:41:11 PM »
Musk is still maintaining that Twitter honours free speech while banning people for what he claims is doxxing, while he actually has been doxxing people as recently as this week. It’s a shit show that Twitter could not have pulled off in their wildest imaginings.

*

Online Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7630
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2022, 11:00:05 PM »
Considering Trump is spouting the same hypocracy, I'm wondering if this is just how Rich Assholes are.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2022, 11:02:28 PM »
Considering Trump is spouting the same hypocracy, I'm wondering if this is just how Rich Assholes are.

You wonder?

*

Online Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7630
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2022, 11:07:41 PM »
Considering Trump is spouting the same hypocracy, I'm wondering if this is just how Rich Assholes are.

You wonder?
I don't follow enough rich assholes to make a conclusion.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline honk

  • *
  • Posts: 3325
  • resident goose
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2022, 03:34:32 AM »
And yet, Twitter randomly banning people It Doesn't Like wasn't really a problem when Musk wasn't the one doing it. It's only now that it generates headlines on other sites.

You're taking a lot for granted here, and you'll have to be more specific if you're trying to make a tu quoque argument. It's safe to say, however, that pre-Musk Twitter did not have an similar figure at the top regularly making unilateral decisions about who to ban and what new rules to suddenly invent, and therefore can't meaningfully be seen as equivalent.

Quote
Musk being a hypocrite is only tangential to the actual problem people are having with Twitter. More importantly, had he not become a hypocrite and Twitter turned into a pool of slurs, people like yourself and Roundy would be crying about it anyway, so what's the point? Either he keeps free speech (and he gets hate for it) or he changes his mind and walks it back (and he gets hate for it).

Sorry, are you conceding that Musk doesn't actually care about free speech, and that his big justification for what he's doing to Twitter is complete bullshit? That's what this post seems to imply. I mean, it's fantastic if you are, because it'll save us some time. Musk himself and his thousands of devoted fans are still pretending that he's being totally neutral and objective.

Quote
My only concern is that Musk is falling into the trap of actually caring what people on Twitter think, which is made all the worse by the fact that he owns the website.

You clearly don't know anything about Musk if you think that this is anything new for him. He's been desperate for popularity for years.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8533
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2022, 04:19:37 PM »
It's safe to say, however, that pre-Musk Twitter did not have an similar figure at the top regularly making unilateral decisions about who to ban and what new rules to suddenly invent, and therefore can't meaningfully be seen as equivalent.

It literally did and his name was Yoel.

Sorry, are you conceding that Musk doesn't actually care about free speech, and that his big justification for what he's doing to Twitter is complete bullshit? That's what this post seems to imply. I mean, it's fantastic if you are, because it'll save us some time. Musk himself and his thousands of devoted fans are still pretending that he's being totally neutral and objective.

No one actually believes in free speech. It's a made up idealistic gibberish concept, like communism or a perfect circle. It's not real. It doesn't exist in reality. Everyone has some "I believe in free speech... but". Pointing out that people don't believe it (like Musk) makes for plain boring intellectual circlejerking.

You clearly don't know anything about Musk if you think that this is anything new for him. He's been desperate for popularity for years.

How about you respond to things I say and not the things you prefer I say.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10620
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2022, 05:45:14 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/tech/musk-censors-press/index.html

Elon Musk cares very passionately about free speech. Just as long as he agrees with what you say. Another lousy Republican hypocrite. He's made Twitter a cesspool.

Maybe you should build your own Twitter.


*

Offline crutonius

  • *
  • Posts: 676
  • Just a regular guy. No funny business here.
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2022, 07:34:38 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/tech/musk-censors-press/index.html

Elon Musk cares very passionately about free speech. Just as long as he agrees with what you say. Another lousy Republican hypocrite. He's made Twitter a cesspool.

Maybe you should build your own Twitter.



Was this your opinion before Elon took over as well as now?

*

Offline honk

  • *
  • Posts: 3325
  • resident goose
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2022, 12:19:06 AM »
It literally did and his name was Yoel.

There is no evidence of that. Even Musk's much-hyped "Twitter Files" supposedly bringing Twitter's terrible corruption and liberal bias to light showed Yoel Roth participating in discussions with other Twitter employees where they eventually decided how to handle certain situations. Completely different from Musk's unilateral decision-making.

Quote
No one actually believes in free speech. It's a made up idealistic gibberish concept, like communism or a perfect circle. It's not real. It doesn't exist in reality. Everyone has some "I believe in free speech... but". Pointing out that people don't believe it (like Musk) makes for plain boring intellectual circlejerking.

Right, so you agree with me on this subject, and yet your issue lies not with the person falsely claiming to be a free speech purist and using that as the justification for what he's doing, but with the people (correctly) pointing out that he's a lying hypocrite. Interesting take, I guess.

Quote
How about you respond to things I say and not the things you prefer I say.

I am. You saying that he's "falling into the trap" implies that it's something that hasn't happened yet or is only just beginning to happen, rather than something that already happened years ago. This isn't a deep psychological dive on my part. Musk wears his insecurities and his desperate need to be praised and seen as cool on his sleeve, and anyone can confirm it for themselves by looking at Musk's Twitter feed, which is mostly him sharing high-fives with bottom-feeding right-wing grifters.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8533
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2022, 08:46:24 PM »
There is no evidence of that. Even Musk's much-hyped "Twitter Files" supposedly bringing Twitter's terrible corruption and liberal bias to light showed Yoel Roth participating in discussions with other Twitter employees where they eventually decided how to handle certain situations. Completely different from Musk's unilateral decision-making.

People who manipulate media organizations usually aren't so brazen about it. Musk's mistake is going so mask-off about the whole thing instead of the usual covers loved universally by other media organizations.

Right, so you agree with me on this subject, and yet your issue lies not with the person falsely claiming to be a free speech purist and using that as the justification for what he's doing, but with the people (correctly) pointing out that he's a lying hypocrite. Interesting take, I guess.

My problem is that people who are upset about the "hypocrite" meme aren't actually believers in free speech. They don't care about the core issue one way or another. In other words, why does it matter that Elon is a hypocrite if the outcome is the same either way? Why bother complaining about it at all and take up space on this forum?

I am. You saying that he's "falling into the trap" implies that it's something that hasn't happened yet or is only just beginning to happen, rather than something that already happened years ago. This isn't a deep psychological dive on my part. Musk wears his insecurities and his desperate need to be praised and seen as cool on his sleeve, and anyone can confirm it for themselves by looking at Musk's Twitter feed, which is mostly him sharing high-fives with bottom-feeding right-wing grifters.

If Musk was really the popularity desperate guy you make him out to be, he'd be a generic liberal (like all the other celebrities seeking nothing but popularity). Any person with access to google would know that demographically, the West is mostly left-leaning. Why pander to the right if he's so desperate to be popular? Your line of thinking doesn't make much sense.

Rama Set

Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2022, 09:10:29 PM »
You don’t need to be a free speech absolutist to think Musk is a hypocritical fuckwad.

*

Online Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7630
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2022, 09:20:31 PM »
If Musk was really the popularity desperate guy you make him out to be, he'd be a generic liberal (like all the other celebrities seeking nothing but popularity). Any person with access to google would know that demographically, the West is mostly left-leaning. Why pander to the right if he's so desperate to be popular? Your line of thinking doesn't make much sense.
I have a theory about this: Conformaty.
The left is more diverse and, by its defintion, less conformist.  The right is more structured, more ... traditional.  Less accepting of variation.  This is why there's 5 major news networks on the left and 1 on the right.  So in theory once you get enough onboard, you can get most of them onboard.  Instead of having fractures and subgroups and having to try to appease the various groups.  But on the Right, all you need to do is make the most crazy people happy and you should be good to go.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline WTF_Seriously

  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Nobody Important
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2022, 10:22:35 PM »
But on the Right, all you need to do is make the most crazy people happy and you should be good to go.

Why do you think Trump ran as a republican?
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

*

Online Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7630
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2022, 10:22:32 PM »
CNN: After Twitter users voted to oust Elon Musk as CEO, he wants to change how polls work.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/20/tech/elon-musk-twitter-polls

Summary:
"You know... After people voted to have me leave twitter, I think we should make policy polls votable only by people who pay for twitter."
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.