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Offline markjo

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 11:35:03 PM »
I suspect that it does not have atoms, and it clearly has properties similar to that of a superfluid.
Which superfluid properties properties are those?

This does not mean that it is a superfluid, nor does it mean that aether must have mass, and it certainly doesn't mean you can make random comparisons between it and superfluid helium.
It also does not mean that you can just go ahead and assign arbitrary magical properties to aether without being able explain the nature of those properties. 

If you want to insist that AWT is the aether that Einstein believed in, then you should probably look at Superfluid Vacuum Theory (SVT), because he basically used the term aether to refer to the physical properties of empty space.  Just don't be surprised if you get questions about how a wind made up of empty space can form stable eddies (among other things).
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

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Offline Tau

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2014, 03:24:45 AM »
Next, let's consider the claim that the aether is a superfluid and its implications.

FEers can't decide whether the aether is energy or matter. (Hint: In order to be a superfluid it must be matter.)


I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. We don't know what aether is made from. It could be similar to neutrinos for all we know. So no, we don't know whether or not it has mass. I suspect that it does not have atoms, and it clearly has properties similar to that of a superfluid. This does not mean that it is a superfluid, nor does it mean that aether must have mass, and it certainly doesn't mean you can make random comparisons between it and superfluid helium.

I am not sure how it would be similar to neutrinos. Neutrinos have been detected with scanners, the Aether (any definition of it) has not. Neutrinos are weakly interacting and could not possibly confer the type of force required by a gravity analog.

Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

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Offline jroa

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2014, 04:41:39 AM »
Quote from: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/dark-matter
In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter.

Doesn't infer mean a guess? 

Ghost of V

Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2014, 05:00:38 AM »
Quote from: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/dark-matter
In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter.

Doesn't infer mean a guess?

Guesses equate to undeniable facts for Gully.

Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2014, 09:10:01 AM »
There is no such thing as AWT (Aetheric Wind Theory) in the context of an UA accelerator.

The two theories are absolutely mutually exclusive.

AWT is valid ONLY in the context of a perfectly stationary flat earth.

Both FES must eliminate the UA accelerator hypothesis in order to have any kind of credibility in explaining terrestrial gravity.


Here is another misconception:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060908-dark-matter.html

You CANNOT have ether and a galactic orbit, the two are completely mutually exclusive.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2014, 01:12:53 PM »
Quote from: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/dark-matter
In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter.

Doesn't infer mean a guess?
An inference is an educated guess based on available evidence.  Upon what evidence is AWT inferred?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2014, 01:16:35 PM »
Quote from: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/dark-matter
In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter.

Doesn't infer mean a guess?
An inference is an educated guess based on available evidence.  Upon what evidence is AWT inferred?

It is based on observation. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2014, 01:24:00 PM »
Quote from: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/physics/dark-matter
In fact, researchers have been able to infer the existence of dark matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter.

Doesn't infer mean a guess?
An inference is an educated guess based on available evidence.  Upon what evidence is AWT inferred?

It is based on observation. 

Incomplete.  The observation of the many phenomena it endeavors to explain have many explanations.  Tell us more.  I believe in you.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2014, 01:54:06 PM »
All phenomena have many explainations. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 02:00:10 PM by jroa »

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2014, 05:33:26 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
So are you now trying to back away from your claim that the aether is a "substance"?

Quote from: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/substance
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2014, 05:37:10 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
So are you now trying to back away from your claim that the aether is a "substance"?

Quote from: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/substance
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence

Kinda like dark matter, huh?

Is that a substance? What's it made out of? How does it work?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2014, 05:44:08 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
So are you now trying to back away from your claim that the aether is a "substance"?

Quote from: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/substance
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence

Kinda like dark matter, huh?

Is that a substance? What's it made out of? How does it work?

Give it up.  It's a bad analogy.  Dark Matter is definitely thought of as matter, hence the name.  The question is whether it is baryonic or not.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2014, 05:47:32 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
So are you now trying to back away from your claim that the aether is a "substance"?

Quote from: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/substance
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence

Kinda like dark matter, huh?

Is that a substance? What's it made out of? How does it work?
How does an incomplete understanding of dark matter make aether wind any more plausible? 
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Ghost of V

Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2014, 05:51:46 PM »
Give it up.  It's a bad analogy.  Dark Matter is definitely thought of as matter, hence the name.  The question is whether it is baryonic or not.

No one has given me a satisfying answer. How do you know dark matter is even matter?  Wouldn't it make more sense if dark matter was just tiny black holes? That would explain most gravitational anomalies in your theories.

The reason it's important is because general relativity basically falls apart without dark matter. Yet no one knows what dark matter is. The analogy fits perfectly in regards to AWT. Stop acting like it doesn't.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 05:53:04 PM »
Give it up.  It's a bad analogy.  Dark Matter is definitely thought of as matter, hence the name.  The question is whether it is baryonic or not.

No one has given me a satisfying answer. How do you know dark matter is even matter?  Wouldn't it make more sense if dark matter was just tiny black holes? That would explain most gravitational anomalies in your theories.

The reason it's important is because general relativity basically falls apart without dark matter. Yet no one knows what dark matter is. The analogy fits perfectly in regards to AWT. Stop acting like it doesn't.

Black Holes are made from matter.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Ghost of V

Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 05:57:06 PM »
Give it up.  It's a bad analogy.  Dark Matter is definitely thought of as matter, hence the name.  The question is whether it is baryonic or not.

No one has given me a satisfying answer. How do you know dark matter is even matter?  Wouldn't it make more sense if dark matter was just tiny black holes? That would explain most gravitational anomalies in your theories.

The reason it's important is because general relativity basically falls apart without dark matter. Yet no one knows what dark matter is. The analogy fits perfectly in regards to AWT. Stop acting like it doesn't.

Black Holes are made from matter.

There is very little baryonic matter making up a black hole.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 05:57:50 PM »
What are you talking about?  There is the entire mass of a very large star making up a black hole.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 06:02:17 PM »
How do you know dark matter is even matter?  Wouldn't it make more sense if dark matter was just tiny black holes? That would explain most gravitational anomalies in your theories.

Unsurprisingly, this possibility is already being considered.
Dark matter, the invisible and mysterious stuff that makes up most of the material universe, might be hiding itself in microscopic black holes, says a team of Russian astrophysicists.

Again, how does this make aether wind any more plausible?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2014, 06:11:32 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not saying they are actually similar to neutrinos. I'm simply trying to give an understanding of our ignorance with regard to what, exactly, aether is. I don't think it's made of atoms because no known chemical behaves as it appears to, but aside from that I know nothing.
So are you now trying to back away from your claim that the aether is a "substance"?

Quote from: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/substance
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence

Kinda like dark matter, huh?

Is that a substance? What's it made out of? How does it work?
Did someone say that dark matter was a substance and then, stupidly, said it might not be matter? If so, they screwed up. Now if FEers could think through their problem with their aether, I'm sure that they could realize that the aether must be matter.
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

Ghost of V

Re: Failures of AWT
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2014, 06:15:35 PM »
What are you talking about?  There is the entire mass of a very large star making up a black hole.

I was under the impression that black holes consumed matter and released it as energy. I'm not a physicist.