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Offline Tron

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New Star Map
« on: April 20, 2022, 11:13:57 PM »
Hi Guys,

I created this star chart which lists the constellations above you at a certain time and place. Its based on Solar time.

Using this map, London at Solar Noon should have the constellation Cassiopeia above it.  At 12 Midnight in London, you should see Draco above you, Bootes and Virgo to your South, and the North Star, Ursa Minor, Cassiopeia, and Andromeda to your North as the map suggests.

You can double check the Constellation accuracy by using the website Stellarium - https://stellarium-web.org/  For example, I entered London at 12 midnight and viewed the constellations I should see (Pictured below).  You might have to make slight adjustments for differences between Solar time and Standard time.



« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 06:10:42 PM by MetaTron »
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2022, 12:17:13 AM »
Wow! Super impressive. How do I work the map from other locations? For instance, if I'm in NYC, USA at midnight, where is Polaris?

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 12:35:52 AM »
Okay, so off the bat you will see the same constellations as the London example.  You have to imagine that NY has moved 12 hours away from the sun at Solar noon.   So on the map, at 12am solar time, NYC will be positioned between Draco and Bootes and near the Bering Straight around 180 longitude.
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2022, 04:14:35 AM »
Okay, so off the bat you will see the same constellations as the London example.  You have to imagine that NY has moved 12 hours away from the sun at Solar noon.   So on the map, at 12am solar time, NYC will be positioned between Draco and Bootes and near the Bering Straight around 180 longitude.

I'm diggin' your map, I'm just unclear how one might use it, functionally. I think I get your statement above, by the time Solar midnight has reached me in NYC (It's like 7AM in London) I now see what London was seeing at their midnight.

Back to my Polaris example, NYC, midnight, way over on the left side of the map, which way am I looking, on your map, when staring at Polaris above the horizon? I kinda feel like I'd be facing leftward on your map. If so, which way would a Londoner be looking/facing at Polaris at the same time I am? Eastward, to the left, like me?

Here's something kinda cool you might like, old school:
The In-The-Sky.org Star Wheel

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2022, 05:08:13 AM »
First, great website.  I will probably use this to build my sky up, lol . Functionally, this map is useful to quickly find when certain constellations are overhead during the day.

To your question, from NYC at midnight you would look north for Polaris.  I actually live on Long Island and I just tested this map against the sky.  I was able to see Ursa Major to the North.

People in London at 7am would also look north and see an image of Polaris but the mechanics of it require a more in depth analysis.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 05:27:22 AM by MetaTron »
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2022, 06:41:44 AM »
Would this be accurate as to what you're describing:


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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2022, 06:56:25 AM »
Based on the position of the sun it's about 12pm in London and 7am in NY.   The direction of north is correct.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 07:07:15 AM by MetaTron »
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2022, 07:28:11 AM »
Based on the position of the sun it's about 12pm in London and 7am in NY.   The direction of north is correct.

Sorry about that. I left the sun where you had it. If you want I can redo the image and put the sun in the right place if that helps. In the mean time...

Imagine in my image the sun is where it's supposed to be when it's Midnight in NYC and 7AM in London. Are my arrows correct in where the Londoner and the New Yorker would be facing if they were both looking North at Polaris at the same time?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2022, 07:48:10 AM »
First, great website.  I will probably use this to build my sky up

Why would you need to do that, when in-the-sky has done it already?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2022, 07:54:25 AM »
I just prefer this format.
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2022, 08:09:51 AM »
Stack, you can rotate the stars and sun above the map or rotate the earth beneath them.  Just use the sun as a reference to determine the time of day for any given location.  This is an important point so let me know if you (or I) understand everything

And at any time of the day looking north would follow the same direction as lines of longitude and be almost parallel to them.  So your NY directional arrow needs to straighten out by a few degrees to the right, but your London arrow is perfect.
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

Online SteelyBob

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2022, 08:10:16 AM »
Based on the position of the sun it's about 12pm in London and 7am in NY.   The direction of north is correct.

You have the same problem that the more common north-centred monopole FE map has with the Southern Hemisphere and the southern pole star (sigma octantis). If two observers are at different longitudes, both in darkness, then if they look to the pole (north in your case, so London / NY works) they are facing in divergent directions looking at the same thing. That cannot be the case.

I’ve never seen this adequately explained here - responses range from distraction or outright refusal (it can’t be dark in those places at the same time) or just flat out odd (they’re looking at different stars that look the same). What’s your explanation?

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2022, 08:39:37 AM »
its this question that prompted me to make this map!  :D   I think the answer is that the northern stars reflect off of the dome in such a way that their image can be seen around the world.  I will make a map of this soon which will explain in more detail. 
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2022, 09:53:17 AM »
Stack, you can rotate the stars and sun above the map or rotate the earth beneath them.  Just use the sun as a reference to determine the time of day for any given location.  This is an important point so let me know if you (or I) understand everything

And at any time of the day looking north would follow the same direction as lines of longitude and be almost parallel to them.  So your NY directional arrow needs to straighten out by a few degrees to the right, but your London arrow is perfect.

New Yorker & Londoner facing North, both looking at Polaris, at the same time, they are facing according to these arrows?


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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2022, 10:04:05 AM »
Yes - And I see your point earlier.   The "image" of Polaris can always be seen around the world pointing directly north.  I just picked a few locations to plot it. 
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2022, 06:28:48 PM »
Yes - And I see your point earlier.   The "image" of Polaris can always be seen around the world pointing directly north.  I just picked a few locations to plot it.

All that's left to do is show how the New Yorker and the Londoner are looking at Polaris, due North, at the same time, yet are facing in entirely different directions.

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2022, 08:45:54 AM »
Hi Guys,

Attached is an image of the northern stars as they would appear above the Dome In yellow font.  I included Polaris and a few other constellations.  The important concept here is that the stars in yellow are hovering above earth and there images are reflecting off of the Dome.  This is why you see many of the same constellations and Polaris accross the world at the same times. 

I placed these constellations with reference to the milky way.  Its still a work in progress so I will edit the map as needed. 

« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 07:59:45 PM by MetaTron »
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2022, 05:41:34 PM »
Hi Guys,

Attached is an image of the northern stars as they would appear above the Dome In yellow font.  I included Polaris and a few other constellations.  The important concept here is that the stars in yellow are hovering above earth and there images are reflecting off of the Dome.  This is why you see many of the same constellations and Polaris accross the world at the same times. 

I placed these constellations with reference to the milky way.  Its still a work in progress so I will edit the map as needed.

The only problem with the reflecting of Polaris is that a person in London heading toward Polaris and a person in NYC heading toward Polaris at the same time are heading in two completely different directions. How do we manage this?

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Offline Tron

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2022, 08:21:34 PM »
Stack, I updated the map above...   From NYC and London at night, you can both see the image of Polaris while looking north on a disc (even though your looking in different directions) because the actual image of Polaris is reflected off of the dome and transported to the edges...  I'm not even sure you can see the real Polaris (in yellow font) from the ground.  All we see are reflections of Polaris and the constellations above, as is represented by the 1st version of this star map.


So, technically the reflected image of Polaris follows you around the world, always pointing north near the edge of the dome. 
From the surface Earth looks flat.  From space Earth looks round.  Now what?

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Offline stack

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Re: New Star Map
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2022, 09:33:41 PM »
Stack, I updated the map above...   From NYC and London at night, you can both see the image of Polaris while looking north on a disc (even though your looking in different directions) because the actual image of Polaris is reflected off of the dome and transported to the edges...  I'm not even sure you can see the real Polaris (in yellow font) from the ground.  All we see are reflections of Polaris and the constellations above, as is represented by the 1st version of this star map.


So, technically the reflected image of Polaris follows you around the world, always pointing north near the edge of the dome.

I think you might have missed the point. For example, seafarers have been using Polaris for navigation for centuries. If a ship out of London and a ship out of NYC are both using Polaris to navigate, their "Norths" are not the same. The two are going in different directions. How do you reconcile that?