[crutonius]

So, here we are.  We could not stop him from acquiring anything in Ukraine.  It has happened.

Why? Because he said so?

Hey, Tron, I'm appointing my friend Dave as the Official Mayor of your home. I've asked Dave, the official representative for your household, if he'd like to give your house away to me. He said yes.

It has happened. Please pack your things and be ready to get out of my house by Friday.

Let's see.  Pete votes yes.  Dave votes yes.  After careful consideration I vote yes.

Sorry Tron.  Looks like you're out.  If you disagree with this then you are a warmonger.

[Tron]

Okay, we'll see how the cards fall.   

[markjo]

It may be the case that Russia is indifferent to civilian casualties, but it is clear that they are not going out of their way to cause it.

Maybe to you, but it's pretty clear to me that they aren't going out of their way to avoid it either.

[Lord Dave]

So, here we are.  We could not stop him from acquiring anything in Ukraine.  It has happened.

Why? Because he said so?

Hey, Tron, I'm appointing my friend Dave as the Official Mayor of your home. I've asked Dave, the official representative for your household, if he'd like to give your house away to me. He said yes.

It has happened. Please pack your things and be ready to get out of my house by Friday.

As Dave, I accepted this role as the majority of the household clearly wanted me to have this role.  The level of nazi corruption can now be cleansed.

[Tom Bishop]

It may be the case that Russia is indifferent to civilian casualties, but it is clear that they are not going out of their way to cause it.

Maybe to you, but it's pretty clear to me that they aren't going out of their way to avoid it either.

When Russia does anything in the same ballpark as the atrocities the US committed in bombing Iraq and other places, which the same media outlets criticizing Russia whitewash for the US, let me know. Until then this Russia Evil narrative is obviously just liberal media hype.

[Rama Set]

It may be the case that Russia is indifferent to civilian casualties, but it is clear that they are not going out of their way to cause it.

Maybe to you, but it's pretty clear to me that they aren't going out of their way to avoid it either.

When Russia does anything in the same ballpark as the atrocities the US committed in bombing Iraq and other places, which the same media outlets criticizing Russia whitewash for the US, let me know. Until then this Russia Evil narrative is obviously just liberal media hype.

Is that really the best you can do? An irrelevant whatabuotism?  Nevermind that there are tons of atrocities committed by the USSR and Russia because those are as irrelevant to the current situation as the US's many war crimes over the years.  More relevant might be the white-washing of current Russian atrocities and pro-nuclear war propaganda currently being broadcast by Russian state media.

[Tom Bishop]

So your reply is to concede that the media whitewashes information and demonizes or hypes up certain things over others. Your reply also concedes that the US, who is prime lead in NATO and beloved by the media, has done far more evil than anything it is claimed that Russia has done in this war.

If the media can't be trusted, and the allegedly good side in this is actually incredibly evil, then I don't see that there is any reason to believe that Russia is doing anything wrong at all. Your sources are tainted. Russia might be rightfully defending itself against NATO, saving the ethnic Russians in the annexed regions from harassment as they claim to be doing, and fighting according to the rules of war.

There have been recent stories on the media that Russia is planting explosives under the beds of children. Should we blindly believe this too?

https://twitter.com/GoodingDuncan/status/1528346855389777920

[Lord Dave]

So your reply is to concede that the media whitewashes information and demonizes or hypes up certain things over others. Your reply also concedes that the US, who is prime lead in NATO and beloved by the media, has done far more evil than anything it is claimed that Russia has done in this war.

If the media can't be trusted, and the allegedly good side in this is actually an incredibly evil warmonger, then I don't see that there is any reason to believe that Russia is doing anything wrong at all. Your sources are tainted. Russia might be rightfully defending itself against NATO, saving the ethnic Russians in the annexed regions from harassment as they claim to be doing, and fighting according to the rules of war.

There have been recent stories on the media that Russia is planting explosives under the beds of children. Should we blindly believe this too?

https://twitter.com/GoodingDuncan/status/1528346855389777920

I like how you compare over 200 years worth of history to 9 months worth of warfare and claim moral superiority.

[Rama Set]

 

So your reply is to concede that the media whitewashes information and demonizes or hypes up certain things over others. Your reply also concedes that the US, who is prime lead in NATO and beloved by the media, has done far more evil than anything it is claimed that Russia has done in this war.

If the media can't be trusted, and the allegedly good side in this is actually incredibly evil, then I don't see that there is any reason to believe that Russia is doing anything wrong at all. Your sources are tainted. Russia might be rightfully defending itself against NATO, saving the ethnic Russians in the annexed regions from harassment as they claim to be doing, and fighting according to the rules of war.

That’s just a non sequitur. No one said the media can’t be trusted on anything, anytime. You are just full of… fallacies today.

There have been recent stories on the media that Russia is planting explosives under the beds of children. Should we blindly believe this too?

You shouldn’t blindly believe anything and I’ve never said otherwise. You seem to be stumbling along, unable to parse the facts. Maybe post less memes and read more?

[markjo]

It may be the case that Russia is indifferent to civilian casualties, but it is clear that they are not going out of their way to cause it.

Maybe to you, but it's pretty clear to me that they aren't going out of their way to avoid it either.

When Russia does anything in the same ballpark as the atrocities the US committed in bombing Iraq and other places, which the same media outlets criticizing Russia whitewash for the US, let me know. Until then this Russia Evil narrative is obviously just liberal media hype.

Let me know when you get a reliable source for your outrageous claims.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/04/saddam-hussein-said-sanctions-killed-500000-children-that-was-a-spectacular-lie/

“The government of Iraq cleverly manipulated survey data to fool the international community,” the report said, describing the figure of 500,000 deaths as “a massive fraud.”

[Tom Bishop]

It may be the case that Russia is indifferent to civilian casualties, but it is clear that they are not going out of their way to cause it.

Maybe to you, but it's pretty clear to me that they aren't going out of their way to avoid it either.

When Russia does anything in the same ballpark as the atrocities the US committed in bombing Iraq and other places, which the same media outlets criticizing Russia whitewash for the US, let me know. Until then this Russia Evil narrative is obviously just liberal media hype.

Let me know when you get a reliable source for your outrageous claims.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/08/04/saddam-hussein-said-sanctions-killed-500000-children-that-was-a-spectacular-lie/

“The government of Iraq cleverly manipulated survey data to fool the international community,” the report said, describing the figure of 500,000 deaths as “a massive fraud.”

The liberal media is not a reliable source. It's calling the UN's own data a fraud. It claims that UNICEF didn't know what it was doing when they collected the data and is claiming it was all manipulated -

https://www.gicj.org/positions-opinons/gicj-positions-and-opinions/1188-razing-the-truth-about-sanctions-against-iraq

The arguments brought forward in the BMJGH study that UNICEF’s findings are “a masterful fraud” are rigged and its conclusion is not only deeply flawed but also damaging. UNICEF’s child mortality research and subsequent publication of the ICMMS in the year 1999 was an astounding achievement at a time in which the Iraqi government had become highly suspicious of UN entities. Indeed, UN organizations such as UNSCOM/UNMOVIC had become intelligence and deception agents of the Western powers, notably the US and UK. UNICEF staff – fully responsible for the research methodology, the data analysis, and the resulting conclusions – conducted the research with professionalism and without hidden agenda. As an intergovernmental program, UNICEF naturally has to engage with governmental entities when conducting field research – as do other UN agencies and procedures in elaborating their reports. While UNICEF staff was cooperating with Iraqi medical personnel and Iraqi authorities in the data collection, they were painstakingly aware of the possibility of manipulation and collected the data with utmost circumspection and expertise. To suggest otherwise is hubristic.

[markjo]

Tom, if you read the sources cited (including your own) you will see that the 500,000 dead children claim is supposed to be a result of UN sanctions, not US bombing or war crimes that you claimed.

[Rama Set]

Tom acts as if the media is a monolith, all reporting the same thing, the same way with the same methods. It just exposes that all he can do is try to provoke outrage. Kinda sad.

[crutonius]

Tom has gone full circle and has now reached an argument I've only seen from brain rotted tankie liberals.  It goes:

Normal people:  Hey, Russia is butchering people.  We've got to do something!

Tom:  Yes but did you know, America bad?

It's interesting logic.  Because America has done some pretty bad things to other countries in our history that disqualifies us from obstructing other countries from doing bad things.

To put it into more concrete terms, because America invaded Iraq under false pretenses we must allow Russia to erase Ukraine from the map.  By sacrificing Ukraine we cleanse ourselves of the sin of the Iraq invasion.  And this is where Tom has landed with this war I suppose.

[markjo]

To put it into more concrete terms, because America invaded Iraq under false pretenses we must allow Russia to erase Ukraine from the map.  By sacrificing Ukraine we cleanse ourselves of the sin of the Iraq invasion.  And this is where Tom has landed with this war I suppose.

Check me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that America annexed chunks of Iraq, Afghanistan or any of the countries that we invaded since WWII.

[crutonius]

To put it into more concrete terms, because America invaded Iraq under false pretenses we must allow Russia to erase Ukraine from the map.  By sacrificing Ukraine we cleanse ourselves of the sin of the Iraq invasion.  And this is where Tom has landed with this war I suppose.

Check me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that America annexed chunks of Iraq, Afghanistan or any of the countries that we invaded since WWII.

It was the closest example I could think of.  Not nearly as bad as Russia's invasion but still probably not something we should have done.

Iraq that is.  Afghanistan is debatable.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

America's invasion of Iraq has a big role in a lot of the bullshit going on around the world. Now, any country, at any time, can point at someone else screaming 'terrorist' or 'wmd!!' and suddenly they have the right to invade someone else. The only winner in the Iraq war was the Iranians, whose disinformation whipped up the American rednecks into invading and destroying their mortal enemy, Saddam Hussein.

This has nothing to do with Putin's work to rebuild the Soviet Union through force.

Tom just needs to come clean and admit that he thinks Putin's expansion in Europe is a good thing. Steven Seagal and Roger Waters have owned it. Let's hear about how Russia's fair and just society will stabilize Europe, the planet and American family values.

[Tom Bishop]

Tom just needs to come clean and admit that he thinks Putin's expansion in Europe is a good thing.

If Putin's goal is simply to "expand" how is it a coincidence that he has only annexed the areas where ethnic Russians were being slaughtered and was the primary point of contention between Russia and Ukraine since 2014?



This is clearly a humanitarian mission, and not "expanding into Europe" or whatever nonsense you have made up.

Tom, if you read the sources cited (including your own) you will see that the 500,000 dead children claim is supposed to be a result of UN sanctions, not US bombing or war crimes that you claimed.

Children generally don't die on their own. The number is counting a combination of the bombings and sanctions which denied needed medical care -

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/mar/04/weekend7.weekend9

"This is a war against the children of Iraq on two fronts: bombing, which in the last year cost the British taxpayer £60 million. And the most ruthless embargo in modern history."

"Half a million children have died in Iraq since UN sanctions were imposed - most enthusiastically by Britain and the US. Three UN officials have resigned in despair. Meanwhile, bombing of Iraq continues almost daily. John Pilger investigates"

"Under economic sanctions imposed by the United Nations Security Council almost 10 years ago, Iraq is denied equipment and expertise to clean up its contaminated battle-fields, as Kuwait was cleaned up. At the same time, the Sanctions Committee in New York, dominated by the Americans and British, has blocked or delayed a range of vital equipment, chemotherapy drugs and even pain-killers."

[crutonius]

Tom just needs to come clean and admit that he thinks Putin's expansion in Europe is a good thing.

If Putin's goal is simply to "expand" how is it a coincidence that he has only annexed the areas where ethnic Russians were being slaughtered and was the primary point of contention between Russia and Ukraine since 2014?



This is clearly a humanitarian mission, and not "expanding into Europe" or whatever nonsense you have made up.

Sudetenland.

[stack]

Wow, now we're subjected to quotes from the hack pseudo-comedian, Jimmy Dore? 

Looks like he was looking to annex a bunch more than just the Donbas...