Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2014, 11:03:08 AM »
Moot has been assimiliated by the Sarkeesian.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2014, 01:19:56 PM »
Uhh okay I sure hope you're speaking from experience here and not just making assumptions

I'm sorry, what I meant to say was, life is shitty for everyone.

And the fact that it is so universally accepted as a genuine insult across the Internet is strong evidence that the "no we're the real victims here" argument Blanko and the GamerGate supporters are pushing is ridiculous.

Actually, I'm not at all sure how that is evidence at all, or where you got the idea that that's my argument. Would you care to elaborate?

Saddam Hussein

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2014, 05:36:14 PM »
No, I wouldn't.  I'm not getting dragged into another tedious side-discussion that's going to end up being about something pedantic like my choice of words.  You know what I'm talking about, and if you honestly think that I've misinterpreted your position, then just tell me what it is that I got wrong.

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2014, 06:01:01 PM »
No, I wouldn't.  I'm not getting dragged into another tedious side-discussion that's going to end up being about something pedantic like my choice of words.  You know what I'm talking about, and if you honestly think that I've misinterpreted your position, then just tell me what it is that I got wrong.

What does 'video game developing' and posting bitchy rants on your livejournal have to do with "social justice"?

Yes, you donate some of the funds for your shitty game to [insert inane charity name here], but you're ultimately detached from the entire process and still making money from it. Zoe Quinn claiming she's a "Warrior for Social Justice" is intellectually dishonest, especially when she spins the entire issue into "I'm a social justice warrior and I'm being persecuted because I'm a female"... when really that's not what is happening at all.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2014, 06:06:38 PM »
No, I wouldn't.  I'm not getting dragged into another tedious side-discussion that's going to end up being about something pedantic like my choice of words.  You know what I'm talking about, and if you honestly think that I've misinterpreted your position, then just tell me what it is that I got wrong.

Okay... you say you don't want to elaborate on your position, but then you ask me to tell you what's wrong with it? I already told you what I want from you, and you don't want to do it. If you don't want to get involved, then stay away. It seems to me like you just want to twist whatever I say to your benefit and run with it.


Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2014, 06:23:46 PM »
When most of the major games websites start talking about making the gaming community more inclusive and then tell most of their core audience to fuck off because they're not wanted any more, you do start to suspect there might be some kind of social justice agenda going on.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2014, 07:38:27 PM »
When most of the major games websites start talking about making the gaming community more inclusive and then tell most of their core audience to fuck off because they're not wanted any more, you do start to suspect there might be some kind of social justice agenda going on.

The major gaming websites aren't telling anyone to fuck off but the people who are involved in the harassing.  If you're taking those "the end of gamers" articles as insults, then you're not reading them very well.  And the big bad "social justice agenda" - lolwut?  What does that even mean?

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2014, 07:41:22 PM »
When most of the major games websites start talking about making the gaming community more inclusive and then tell most of their core audience to fuck off because they're not wanted any more, you do start to suspect there might be some kind of social justice agenda going on.

The major gaming websites aren't telling anyone to fuck off but the people who are involved in the harassing.  If you're taking those "the end of gamers" articles as insults, then you're not reading them very well.  And the big bad "social justice agenda" - lolwut?  What does that even mean?


Who's involved in the harassing? Please cite sources, provide screenshots, and just any evidence in general. Quinn has taken this position but rarely has evidence to back it up.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 07:44:55 PM by Vauxhall »

Offline Blanko

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2014, 08:23:39 PM »
When most of the major games websites start talking about making the gaming community more inclusive and then tell most of their core audience to fuck off because they're not wanted any more, you do start to suspect there might be some kind of social justice agenda going on.

The major gaming websites aren't telling anyone to fuck off but the people who are involved in the harassing.  If you're taking those "the end of gamers" articles as insults, then you're not reading them very well.  And the big bad "social justice agenda" - lolwut?  What does that even mean?

You know what he means :^)

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #109 on: September 19, 2014, 08:57:00 PM »
That moment when Saddam realizes that there's no proof of excessive abuse toward Quinn and other female gamers, and that he's been on the white-knight bandwagon of disinformation this whole time....

It's OK, Saddam. Happens to the best of us.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2014, 08:59:11 PM »
You endorse the retarded conspiracy theories that she faked it all, then?

Offline Blanko

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #111 on: September 19, 2014, 09:03:42 PM »
Jesus, Saddam. Why does everything you say have to be loaded as fuck?

Not that I agree with Vauxy or anything, but dismissing the opposing position as "retarded" without any elaboration is just shitty.

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2014, 09:04:49 PM »
You endorse the retarded conspiracy theories that she faked it all, then?

No, I don't. I endorse the possibility that she exaggerated most of it, and simply misunderstood what internet stardom entails. 4chan and other sites attack everyone, not just females. She turned this into a crusade because she thought she was being singled out because she was female, when really this has been happening since Usenet to both males and females equally. She can spin it however she wants, but it's quite obvious she's just not very good at taking criticism, prone to cracking under pressure, and has a dramatic-personality. The fact that she has gone so public, orchestrated a movement, and profited from this is just another nail in the coffin.

Why aren't you defending the multitudes of people that 4chan and other communities have attacked over the years? Because they're not female? You're a fucking sexist.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 09:21:04 PM by Vauxhall »

Saddam Hussein

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2014, 04:16:13 PM »
After careful consideration, I have decided to explain my thoughts on this subject in a bit more detail.

First of all, there's the argument that GamerGate isn't about misogyny, and that it's unfair for the media to keep characterizing it as such.  That's fair enough; a mere glance at Twitter will confirm that there are more than enough people voicing reasonable (if not necessarily sound) complaints to show that generalizations like that don't hold up.  However, I'm sure that for a lot of people, probably including the media, GamerGate is already permanently linked to and irreparably tainted by Quinn's harassment.  There's just no getting around the fact that this whole thing was started by a vicious, sexist harassment campaign based on charges that didn't hold up to scrutiny and would still have been pretty inconsequential even if they had.  Now, I hate to sound like I'm throwing around insincere "If I were you" concern trolling, but I have to agree that if there's any future for the movement, it's not going to be in clinging to 4chan's legacy by repeating "GamerGate!"  Insert some analogy about building a house on a rotten foundation here.

As for the arguments being made by GamerGate itself, there appear to be two main ones - that the gaming media is far too close and comfortable with the gaming industry, and that the gaming media is comprised of social justice warriors who hate gamers and are determined to create a future in which the only games we ever play are ones like Gone Home or Depression Quest.  It's funny, because saying that both of these are issues at the same time really only makes sense if you're looking at the indie game industry.  It's true that the gaming media does have a liberal/progressive bent, as most online media does, and so do a lot of indie developers, like Quinn.  The problem with concluding that the stage is therefore set for a rabidly-PC future of terrible video games is that the influence that indie developers wield is practically non-existent when compared to the mainstream video game industry.  It's these guys, the AAA developers and publishers, who are setting the trends in gamer culture, and if there's one thing that they're definitely not, it's progressive.

I could go a bit more into that if anyone disagrees, but to conclude, the media's fawning over almost every AAA title churned out directly contradicts the assertion that they have some elaborate SJW agenda to stop making our games fun or whatever.  Sure, these journalists will write an essay once in a while talking about cultural appropriation or how we need more diverse video game protagonists than "generic dark-haired white guy with stubble," but that means almost nothing when they're accompanied by endless 9/10s.  If they were really such dedicated SJWs, they'd be outright panning games like FC3 or GTA V and encouraging boycotts of them.  That would do far more for the cause than shilling for indie nobodies like Quinn.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 04:27:10 PM by Saddam Hussein »

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2014, 04:49:36 PM »
I could go a bit more into that if anyone disagrees, but to conclude, the media's fawning over almost every AAA title churned out directly contradicts the assertion that they have some elaborate SJW agenda to stop making our games fun or whatever.  Sure, these journalists will write an essay once in a while talking about cultural appropriation or how we need more diverse video game protagonists than "generic dark-haired white guy with stubble," but that means almost nothing when they're accompanied by endless 9/10s.  If they were really such dedicated SJWs, they'd be outright panning games like FC3 or GTA V and encouraging boycotts of them.  That would do far more for the cause than shilling for indie nobodies like Quinn.

Who's making these accusations? This is new to me.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2014, 05:12:07 PM »
I don't think it would hurt AAA games at all to be a bit more inclusive of female gamers.

For example, it wouldn't have to effect time period games where sexism is completely relevant to the context (RDR, Assassin's Creed) and it doesn't have to even effect games like Hitman (where you're not even supposed to shoot the strippers at all, Sarkeesian...). And the games that don't make a big deal about how progressive they are work just fine (new Tomb Raider games, Portal, even Saints Row).

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2014, 05:19:04 PM »
I don't think it would hurt AAA games at all to be a bit more inclusive of female gamers.

For example, it wouldn't have to effect time period games where sexism is completely relevant to the context (RDR, Assassin's Creed) and it doesn't have to even effect games like Hitman (where you're not even supposed to shoot the strippers at all, Sarkeesian...). And the games that don't make a big deal about how progressive they are work just fine (new Tomb Raider games, Portal, even Saints Row).

You're playing the wrong games. There are plenty of female main characters in videogames, especially Japanese ones. It's just most of them don't sell as well as your precious triple A games.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2014, 05:36:01 PM »
I don't think it would hurt AAA games at all to be a bit more inclusive of female gamers.

For example, it wouldn't have to effect time period games where sexism is completely relevant to the context (RDR, Assassin's Creed) and it doesn't have to even effect games like Hitman (where you're not even supposed to shoot the strippers at all, Sarkeesian...). And the games that don't make a big deal about how progressive they are work just fine (new Tomb Raider games, Portal, even Saints Row).

You're playing the wrong games. There are plenty of female main characters in videogames, especially Japanese ones. It's just most of them don't sell as well as your precious triple A games.
I know a few Japanese video games that are horribly sexist, really. And why did you say my precious triple A games? I don't play any of the games I previously listed except for RDR. My favorite game is Psychonauts which is far from a triple A game. But most sexism is in triple A games and mainstream male gamers are the worst at being exclusive. You can't ever let on that you're a female if you want to play Halo or Gears of War live.

Ghost of V

Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2014, 05:39:32 PM »
I know a few Japanese video games that are horribly sexist, really.

I know a few western video games that are horribly sexist too, really.

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Re: Gamergate!
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2014, 05:40:44 PM »
I know a few Japanese video games that are horribly sexist, really.

I know a few western video games that are horribly sexist too, really.
Neat!