Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« on: January 23, 2021, 03:34:11 AM »
Hello there!
I'm a middle school teacher, so I mostly work with 14 - 15 year olds.
We've been talking about the importance of broadening our perspectives on scientific paradigms, and during our last three classes we've been exploring some elementary concepts of Flat Earth Theory. My students are just fascinated by such a theory, and came up with a great variety of questions. I know some of them might have been already answered over here (so I omitted them) but there are some of them that I think could beinteresting for you to answer.
If there's any question that you'd like to answer, please feel free to do it!

—How do time zones work in a Flat Earth?
—Are there four seasons in a Flat Earth?
—Does the community have any technical term for the Flat Earth?
—Do you have "slang words" derived from your theory?
—If the Earth is flat, which side is the one we are on, the "correct" side? And what happens with the other side?
—Do you also think that the other planets are flat?
—What is the most important evidence that confirms the Earth is flat?
—How do you describe the process of day and night?
—Does Earth´s rotation exit?
—Is gravity the same in a flat Earth as in a round Earth?
—Why is the Earth flat? (What's its origin?)
—Did you think the same about the Earth being flat when you were a kid?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 09:04:00 AM »
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Hello there!
I'm a middle school teacher, so I mostly work with 14 - 15 year olds.

Welcome!  This is an excellent subject for study at any age, but most everything is easier for the young ;).

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If there's any question that you'd like to answer, please feel free to do it!

I will answer them, but please keep in mind that the answers are my own (not that of the greater FES, necessarily) and that I have a lot of practice answering them, so please let me know if you need anymore clarification.

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—How do time zones work in a Flat Earth?

The same way.  Time zones are completely arbitrary - we make them up and can use them on any shaped world.

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—Are there four seasons in a Flat Earth?

Of course.  Non uniform, but periodic, heating from the sun is the presumed cause of the seasons regardless of the conceptions of the shape of the earth, or on why - specifically - that sun heats the world in such a way as to consistently ensure seasons.

This tautology is tellingly difficult for the indoctrinated to grasp, but can be useful to muse on - If the world is flat, then everything we observe occurs on a flat earth.  Nothing changes, and it is insane to think it would!

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—Does the community have any technical term for the Flat Earth?

There are many terms floating about.  Some refer to an infinite plane, some to a "universal accelerator" that is proposed to push the ground upwards - causing the illusion of gravity and things "falling". Others believe the earth to be a concave sphere which we live on the inside surface of.  The subject itself I refer to by its most accurate description : "flat earth research".

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—Do you have "slang words" derived from your theory?

This is a highly contentious subject, and most of the "slangs" that I've seen are deragatories.  However, there are slangs like : atmoplane (referring to the air's measured tendency to stack on top, rather than reinforce the belief of spherical air - for which there is no scientific support.)

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—If the Earth is flat, which side is the one we are on, the "correct" side? And what happens with the other side?

We're topside, lol.  No one knows.  There are many speculations, however humanity has only drilled down about 8 miles into the "crust" (and only that one time :().  We have no idea what is down there, and that has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

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—Do you also think that the other planets are flat?

No, there are no other planets.  All that stuff is star trek fiction.  If it quacks likes science fiction, and you ONLY see it on tv...

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—What is the most important evidence that confirms the Earth is flat?

The natural behavior of water, and the laws of hydrostatics, unchallenged for centuries to today, that establish it cannot (due to its fundamental properties) and does not curve in the sustained convex curvature the globe model requires.  Water's surface is only ever flat, level, and horizontal at rest (of non miniscule quantity/surface area) and the believed sphericity of water is in no way a part of empirical science (in fact it would contradict it, and violate many laws - like these in hydrostatics for instance). EDIT: This evidence does not establish the shape of the entire earth (no one evidence, short of its rigorous/validated measurement ever could), but suggests quite strongly that it cannot be spherical when the oceans are, mostly, flat.

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—How do you describe the process of day and night?

Same as the seasons - non uniform, but periodic, heating/lighting from the moving sun.

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—Does Earth´s rotation exit?

No.  This is a common misconception.  In fact, the gyroscope was invented to convince people that the world was spherical and rotating.  There is LOTs to discuss on this one - as there are many reasons we came to the wrong conclusion regarding this and incorrectly interpreted phenomena that appear to support it.

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—Is gravity the same in a flat Earth as in a round Earth?

It can be.  There are some flat earth researchers who still conceive of a "traditional" gravitation of some kind.

There is a LOT of confusion about gravity, and knowing the history of the term and the science regarding it is extremely valuable.  Through my research I have concluded that newtonian gravity and mass exist only in mathematical equation and have no reality whatsoever.  It is NOT coincidence that they annihilate one another and return to the real and measured weight they began as.

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—Why is the Earth flat? (What's its origin?)

The earth appears flat.  Most children think it is flat for this reason (and we know this from asking them before they have "learned better") - because it looks that way.  However, the idea that people used to think the world was flat and then columbus set them straight is complete fiction/propaganda created by the 19th century fiction author of the legend of sleepy hollow and rip van winkle. There is no historical record of any culture/peoples that believed the world was flat.

If you mean, how did a flat earth come to be - then that is a mythological question.  Worth asking and pursuing! But also very important to remember that like most big questions - "why are we here etc." the answers we do have are highly unsatisfying and wildly speculative at absolute best.

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—Did you think the same about the Earth being flat when you were a kid?

No, you are not permitted to matriculate if you do not repeat the "inerrant facts" you learn correctly.  That is how rote works.

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Thanks in advance!

I look forward to any followup questions you may have!  In my view, flat earth research is minimally about the shape of the world and primarily about the most important, and fundamentally neglected, questions of our age :

1: What do you know?
2: How do you know it (with certainty)?
3: How can you share what you know (and that certainty) with others?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 06:04:11 AM by jack44556677 »

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Re: Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 02:54:10 PM »
stack and SteelyBob: as jack rightly pointed out, you shouldn't clutter up this thread. SteelyBob, it's particularly unhelpful for you to post in agreement and then immediately continue the behaviour you just agreed to stop. stack, you are smarter than this - seeing a thread in which two people agreed to stop cluttering it up is not an invitation for you to clutter it up more. Common sense, please.

Now, back to the topic at hand:

—How do time zones work in a Flat Earth?
Time zones are just a man-made consequence of sunrise and sunset occurring at different times in different places. Under the Flat Earth model, the Sun circles above the Earth, illuminating only part of it at any given time.



—Are there four seasons in a Flat Earth?
Yes. Those are, once again, caused by the specifics of the Sun's motion above the Earth.

Have a look at our FAQ, one of the questions covers both the day/night cycle and seasons: https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_do_you_explain_day.2Fnight_cycles_and_seasons.3F

—Does the community have any technical term for the Flat Earth?
Assuming you mean FE itself, no, it's just called "Flat Earth".

—Do you have "slang words" derived from your theory?
Not really. In the past, there were some efforts to adjust language to avoid commonplace references to the globe earth (you might notice that my title on this forum is "Planar Moderator", a quip on the term "Global Moderator"), but over time we realised that terms like "atmoplane" (or "atmolayer") introduce more confusion for newcomers. Many opt to just call it the "atmosphere" and accept the slight inaccuracy that comes with it in the interest of simpler communication.

—If the Earth is flat, which side is the one we are on, the "correct" side? And what happens with the other side?
I'm not sure I understand - there is nothing "correct" about one side of the Earth. It's just that one of them happens to sustain life, while the other is largely unknown and unexplored.

—Do you also think that the other planets are flat?
"Other planets" is a misnomer. The Earth is not a planet. Planets are round.

—What is the most important evidence that confirms the Earth is flat?
I'm not sure any single experiment would be enough to tip the scales. It's the overwhelming preponderance of evidence that makes the case for FE.

—How do you describe the process of day and night?
This is a repeat of the time zone question.

—Does Earth´s rotation exit?
I don't understand the question.

—Is gravity the same in a flat Earth as in a round Earth?
Definitely not - the "traditional" gravitational model is completely incompatible with FET. See: https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration

—Why is the Earth flat? (What's its origin?)
Unknown, and unknowable. Most of us are interested in observing the observable, and not crafting a religion.

—Did you think the same about the Earth being flat when you were a kid?
No. I was first exposed to the Flat Earth Theory 10 years ago.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Re: Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 11:58:09 PM »
Hey, thanks to all of you.
 The kids are having such a nice time discussing and digging into your answers. They really appreciate your explanations, and if that's ok for you, would like to ask a bunch of follow-ups:

—What is the Sun? I assume it is not spherical, then. What's its shape and what is it made of? Same for the Moon.

—How do you conceive outer-space?

—People currently believe in the origin of the universe being a great explosion. Have Flat Earthers suggested any theory about the origin of the universe?

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 12:05:51 AM by Adam567 »

Re: Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 06:20:32 AM »
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The kids are having such a nice time discussing and digging into your answers. They really appreciate your explanations, and if that's ok for you, would like to ask a bunch of follow-ups:

Certainly! However, do you think you might be able to share any details of that conversation?  I imagine that the classroom discussion might be something along the lines of : "Why/how do we know that this isn't the case?"/"How do we know the mainstream science view is correct?" and if that is the case, I would be doubly interested in what evidence/arguments they've researched to that end.

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What is the Sun?

No one knows.  One of the stupidest conceptions was held by most all the top scientific minds of the 19th century, in which the sun was a giant burning gas lamp (they had recently gotten gas streetlamps - heady days).  Sadly our modern "theories" have their foundation solidly in that stupid and indefensible idea.

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What's its shape and what is it made of?

It is difficult to say with any certainty from this distance away.  Science is very hands on - it can't be performed through a telescope.  The sun certainly appears circular (which is different than spherical), and the ancient egyptians (as well as later cultures that revered them) referred to it as the sun-disc.  Just because we can't answer with much certainty, doesn't mean we can't speculate (as long as we ALWAYS remember that and ALWAYS remember to present it as speculation).

As for its composition (as well as size and distance), we can only speculate (and make basic, tenuous, inferences using spectroscopy etc.).  Some speculate that it is actually an atmospheric effect, and that the ionization of the atmosphere is most responsible for daylight.  In that case the sun is more of a phenomenon caused, presumably, by another energy source and need not generate anything itself (necessarily) - which solves many of the current mysteries of stellar function.

All of the answers presented as science to students for the composition, size, mechanism, and distance are merely speculation with very little (if any) scientific support.  They are parts of astronomical mythology, not actual/real science.

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Same for the Moon.

Once again, there are many speculations. For instance, there was an interview discovered by the public australian broadcasting company in their archives of a tasmanian professor in 67-68.  Professor foster claimed that his research demonstrated, without doubt, that the moon was a plasma phenomenon and that there is absolutely no way the americans or russians could land anyone there as they had been posturing/planning.  The moon (and sun) is very possibly immaterial (or of very minimal matter / minuscule density), and perhaps a reflection or (presumed natural) hologram composed of the rarefied air in the upper strata.

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How do you conceive outer-space?

The same way absolutely everyone else does; sci-fi.  Sci-fi defines space and the expectations thereof, and always has.  The concept of space and landing on other planets has its inception/foundation purely in fiction, which many overlook (it is NOT coincidence). 

It should come as no surprise that humanity was wrong about the wild unvalidated speculations on things so very far from the totality of their experience.  We barely know what's going on terrestrially, and have no idea whatsoever about anything beyond that - this is the plain reality that we try to obscure by disingenuously teaching mythology as science from childhood.

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—People currently believe in the origin of the universe being a great explosion. Have Flat Earthers suggested any theory about the origin of the universe?

Yes, people believe that.  But they should know better!  Belief has no place in knowledge/fact, least of all scientific.  Belief is across purposes to knowledge.  If you BELIEVE the world is round, or flat, or dodecahedron - you have FAITH not fact.  So it is with the supposed origins of the universe.  More mythological fiction, disingenuously passed off as science to children.  The big bang was invented by a priest.  It was stupid and unscientific then, and it has had almost a century to stew in its own juices.

Creation myth has no place in the science classroom (or discussions about science, like the one we are currently engaged in) except in the strictest context of speculation and/or potential experimental evaluation.

Ideally, once you earnestly engage in flat earth research (or any other objective/scientific research), your days of tolerating or allowing belief in knowledge are over.

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Thanks again!

Anytime.  Let me know if you need any clarification, and/or have any specific criticisms / evidence for or against that would be worth further exploring!

At the core (which we haven't touched) are the incorrect definitions of science, scientific method, experiment, and hypothesis that the vast majority are taught that are largely responsible for the rampant scientific illiteracy we currently "enjoy". You can't hope to discern between actual science, and mythological/philosophical/religious pseudoscience presented as it (like most of that which is taught in astronomy, astrophysics, and cosmology), unless you learn the proper criteria to do so first.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 06:13:09 AM by jack44556677 »

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Re: Questions about Flat Earth Theory by young students
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 08:41:56 AM »
I'm not sure how helpful all these one line answers are.

A flat earth is the centre of the universe. And that's nice. You are special. You are not on an insignificant little speck of dust in an enormous universe by accident. Your life has meaning. There is a design. There is a purpose.

The earth is flat, but stars, planets and the moon are not. They are balls. The earth is not a planet. 'Planet' comes from the ancient Greek for 'wandering star'. The earth isn't a wandering star. Things are closer than you have been led to believe. The sun and moon are just 3000 miles above you and they are both 27 miles across. The stars are higher and smaller still. Depending on which flat earth theory you subscribe to, stars may be mounted into the firmament.
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