Offline jimster

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What did they think would be the end of the story?
« on: January 15, 2021, 12:32:49 AM »
There must be Trump supporters here, flat earth and Trump are both at heart conspiracy theories. What id the people storming the capital expect to happen?

Did they think they would take hostages, get their way, Pelosi would start doing whatever the Trumpers wanted through fear? Would they kill her and replace her with a Trumper? Then they all go home, back to their jobs, la-de-da? The legislature would vote to decertify the election? Announce that "everyone knew Trump would win, so if he didn't, there must have been fraud, so Trump is still president"?

Help me out on this, and no general answers. Vague answers enable delusion conspiracies, specific answers find the truth.

Anyone here understand how this was supposed to end in a good way for Trump? Details, please.

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Offline honk

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2021, 04:15:41 AM »
Storming the Capitol was crazy, but no crazier than the rest of the QAnon conspiracy theory that many of the rioters subscribed to. They probably planned to take hostages, and possibly even assault or kill legislators they viewed as traitors. Then the military would show up and give them a hero's welcome, because they're loyal to Trump. It's ludicrous nonsense, but it's not inconsistent with their worldview.
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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2021, 07:40:02 AM »
I think you’re giving them too much credit if you think there was a plan. Emphasis on the “a”. I’m sure some of them had plans but I don’t believe for one minute there was a single coordinated plan. As I said elsewhere they were like a load of kids running around “playing revolution”. I’m sure a lot of them thought they were going to take back the country, hang the “traitors” and install Trump as President for life or something. I don’t think any of them had the faintest clue how to actually achieve that.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2021, 09:07:06 AM »
Every leader rallying the crowd says thing like Trump did.

The civil rights movement, women's rights, eco lunatics they all say the same things

"Let's march on Washington", "Let's take the fight to them", "You have to fight for real change" ... it happens over and over. Only on this occasion a few of the police said "Come right on in" and that's when things got a bit weird.

But Trump didn't say anything incriminating. He just rallied his base to protest the congress building. He didn't say "Storm the building" or "Bring guns with you" or "break stuff when you get there".

Besides he isn't getting in trouble for this. He has broken no criminal law. And they can't try a civilian in the senate ... which he will be by then. So he simply doesn't have to attend and the senate will have no jurisdiction. Its all another dog and pony show by the Democrats.  ::)
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2021, 09:30:32 AM »
Every leader rallying the crowd says thing like Trump did.

The civil rights movement, women's rights, eco lunatics they all say the same things

"Let's march on Washington", "Let's take the fight to them", "You have to fight for real change" ... it happens over and over. Only on this occasion a few of the police said "Come right on in" and that's when things got a bit weird.

But Trump didn't say anything incriminating. He just rallied his base to protest the congress building. He didn't say "Storm the building" or "Bring guns with you" or "break stuff when you get there".

Besides he isn't getting in trouble for this. He has broken no criminal law. And they can't try a civilian in the senate ... which he will be by then. So he simply doesn't have to attend and the senate will have no jurisdiction. Its all another dog and pony show by the Democrats.  ::)


And you'd be wrong.
1. He CAN be tried in the senate post term.  If found guilty he will lose all the perks of having been president and will not be allowed to run for president ever again.

2. He can be charged with inciting a riot/sedition.  While you can technically say "he didn't tell them to perform these actions" I'm not sure that matters.  The "mob boss" defense doesn't work.  An implied meaning is still a meaning even if you use non-bad words.  Like "Pay us some protection and we'll ensure this place is safe." Its technically not a "Pay us or we'll break things" but thats strongly implied.

Now I suggest you stop this rebellion before it comes to bite you in the ass.
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Offline jimster

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2021, 01:15:47 PM »
None of the replies answered my question, except to say they didn't think it through.

I think I figured it out myself. They expect they will get absolute power for Trump, martial law, pardons, and if the left (and rino never-Trumpers) doesn't like it, they can shut up.

At the inauguration, they will overpower the cops/national guard with overwhelming numbers. Trump will declare martial law. He will shut down msnbc, cnn, wash post, ny times, etc. He will fire everyone at the pentagon who opposes him. He will declare the election void. Some police and national guard will side with him. Pardons for all rioters.

I saw a Trump supporter in my neighborhood putting mountain bikes on his giant pickup truck last night. Maybe paranoid, but it just looked puzzling. Bikes will outmaneuver police and get through roadblocks meant to stop cars. Will police and national guard fire on white American citizens? They may need a lot of bullets. No hotel, no airbnb, no organization, just mobs coming in every direction.

They are jacked up and know we can't kill and jail them all. Will 100s of thousands come ready to storm police? If so, I suggest the police do not have a strategy for that.

They are aided by planning to do things that conventional people cannot imagine them doing, no more than anyone expected Jan 6.

One third of America is white supremacist authoritarian, and they have the presidency. The wisdom of the founding fathers gave Trump great power. The Constitution gives the presidency great power on the assumption that the people would never elect a person who would use it for personal gain and authoritarian power.

All you need is 1/3 of the senate. Keep firing generals and DOJ until they all go along, then you have it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2021, 02:31:57 PM »
There must be Trump supporters here, flat earth and Trump are both at heart conspiracy theories.

At the inauguration, they will overpower the cops/national guard with overwhelming numbers. Trump will declare martial law. He will shut down msnbc, cnn, wash post, ny times, etc. He will fire everyone at the pentagon who opposes him. He will declare the election void. Some police and national guard will side with him. Pardons for all rioters.

...

They are jacked up and know we can't kill and jail them all. Will 100s of thousands come ready to storm police? If so, I suggest the police do not have a strategy for that.

They are aided by planning to do things that conventional people cannot imagine them doing, no more than anyone expected Jan 6.


Sounds like a nutty conspiracy theory. Do you have any evidence for your conspiracy theory?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:10:27 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2021, 02:43:15 PM »
More than for election fraud lol
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2021, 02:56:22 PM »
Conspiracy theories are not harmless, they hurt people.

Funny that someone who has previously come here to rant about conspiracies now has a conspiracy he wants to share and discuss with us.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2021, 03:33:10 PM »
Conspiracy theories are not harmless, they hurt people.

Funny that someone who has previously come here to rant about conspiracies now has a conspiracy he wants to share and discuss with us.

Funny how quick you dismiss a conspiracy when you cling to every single one that fits your view.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2021, 03:54:43 PM »
If you want people to entertain your conspiracy theory then you probably should not come here and rant against conspiracy theories. Fair enough?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2021, 04:07:08 PM »
If you want people to entertain your conspiracy theory then you probably should not come here and rant against conspiracy theories. Fair enough?

Sounds fair.  I look forward to hearing you appologize for dismissing jim's theory out of hand.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2021, 04:41:04 PM »
I would prefer if the OP was apologizing to us about his previous comments.

But if you want my real opinion on it, I do think it's possible that Trump will take power with the military. They would be taking back the government as an act of pure self defense.

There are over 25K armed National Guard in Washington D.C. right now, allegedly protecting the Capitol Building against Trump supporters. If you look at the road closures, however, they are layered three blocks deep around the White House and only one block around the Capitol Building.



They are clearly protecting the White House from something. And I don't think it's Trump supporters.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:06:38 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2021, 04:45:12 PM »
How would it be self defence?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Iceman

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2021, 04:51:15 PM »
How would it be self defence?
Self defense from the perils of democratic elections!

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2021, 05:22:32 PM »
I would prefer if the OP was apologizing to us about his previous comments.

But if you want my real opinion on it, I do think it's possible that Trump will take power with the military. They would be taking back the government as an act of pure self defense.
That would be a literal military coupe.  You do know that, right?  That is what almost every single dictator in history has done.  Let me guess, next we should have open ballots and voting and have an armed soldier at each ballot box, watching you insert it to ensure you voted "correctly"?


Quote
There are over 25K armed National Guard in Washington D.C. right now, allegedly protecting the Capitol Building against Trump supporters. If you look at the road closures, however, they are layered three blocks deep around the White House and only one block around the Capitol Building.



They are clearly protecting the White House from something. And I don't think it's Trump supporters.
You mean the spot that Biden is going to go after the innauguration?

Of course, they could be trying to isolate Trump.  Walls keep ya in and out, don't ya know?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2021, 05:26:13 PM »
And you'd be wrong.
1. He CAN be tried in the senate post term.  If found guilty he will lose all the perks of having been president and will not be allowed to run for president ever again.
ATTENTION EVERYONE! I would like you to see Lord Dave doing this again. He is presented with a fact, he doesn't like it and just flat out tells you that you are wrong without a shred of evidence to back his claim. It is very very annoying.

Trump CANNOT be tried as a civilian!
Quote from: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/534269-congress-broke-two-records-in-impeachment-of-donald-trump
Fourth, by trying to put Trump on trial in the Senate after he leaves office, the House violated the provision that allows Congress to remove a sitting president and, only if the Senate decides to remove him by a vote, could it add the sanction for a future disbarment from running for office. Congress has no authority over any president once he leaves office. If Congress had the power to impeach a private citizen to prevent him from running in the future, it could claim jurisdiction over millions of Americans eligible to be candidates for president in 2024. This would be a perilous interpretation of the Constitution which would allow the party in control of Congress to impeach a popular candidate and preclude him from running.
Written by HOUSE DEMOCRAT Alan DERSHOWITZ!


2. He can be charged with inciting a riot/sedition.  While you can technically say "he didn't tell them to perform these actions" I'm not sure that matters.  The "mob boss" defense doesn't work.  An implied meaning is still a meaning even if you use non-bad words.  Like "Pay us some protection and we'll ensure this place is safe." Its technically not a "Pay us or we'll break things" but thats strongly implied.

Now I suggest you stop this rebellion before it comes to bite you in the ass.
Read the rest of the same article I just linked you to.

Don't just tell me I'm wrong without a source. You are wrong on both counts.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 07:31:56 PM »
Trump was impeached for the second time while holding office. Nothing you quoted conflicts with current events. The matter at hand is convicting him of his impeachment.
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Offline honk

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2021, 09:03:54 PM »
Quote from: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/534269-congress-broke-two-records-in-impeachment-of-donald-trump
Fourth, by trying to put Trump on trial in the Senate after he leaves office, the House violated the provision that allows Congress to remove a sitting president and, only if the Senate decides to remove him by a vote, could it add the sanction for a future disbarment from running for office. Congress has no authority over any president once he leaves office. If Congress had the power to impeach a private citizen to prevent him from running in the future, it could claim jurisdiction over millions of Americans eligible to be candidates for president in 2024. This would be a perilous interpretation of the Constitution which would allow the party in control of Congress to impeach a popular candidate and preclude him from running.

The difference between Trump and any other private citizen that Congress hypothetically might want to bar from office in the future is that Trump is currently the president and is being impeached for something that he did while he was the president. It is a valid question as to whether or not an impeachment trial can constitutionally extend past a president's term, but as this situation has never come up before, there is no precedent, and it's far from as clear-cut in the Constitution as Dershowitz is making out. Speaking of him, again, Dershowitz is a distinguished and knowledgeable lawyer who has unfortunately turned to trolling in the final years of his career. His name doesn't lend the authoritative weight that it used to.
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Offline stack

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Re: What did they think would be the end of the story?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2021, 09:11:05 PM »
Trump CANNOT be tried as a civilian!
Quote from: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/534269-congress-broke-two-records-in-impeachment-of-donald-trump
Fourth, by trying to put Trump on trial in the Senate after he leaves office, the House violated the provision that allows Congress to remove a sitting president and, only if the Senate decides to remove him by a vote, could it add the sanction for a future disbarment from running for office. Congress has no authority over any president once he leaves office. If Congress had the power to impeach a private citizen to prevent him from running in the future, it could claim jurisdiction over millions of Americans eligible to be candidates for president in 2024. This would be a perilous interpretation of the Constitution which would allow the party in control of Congress to impeach a popular candidate and preclude him from running.
Written by HOUSE DEMOCRAT Alan DERSHOWITZ!

When did Dershowitz get elected to the House?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.