Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 12:29:54 AM »
Assuming the Earth is suspended in space, or 'floating,' it would be the only flat or disc shaped celestial body in the universe of substantial size.  Why is our Earth the exception?  Whether blowing a bubble, or observing a drop of water, or watching a lava lamp, we find that all liquids, and gasses, including planets while still molten, and stars, form into ball shapes.  When someone can demonstrate they can blow a flat bubble, FE theory will have advanced beyond the farcically ridiculous.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 04:48:12 PM »
If you read the wiki here you’ll find this site maintains the Earth is not stationary but travelling upwards at by now immense speed, since it is claimed Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 ms-2. Apparently everything else we see - sun, moon and stars - is also accelerating at the same rate with the Earth. This is called Universal Acceleration and is this site’s explanation of what the rest of the world calls gravity.

I’ll leave you to read for yourself and ponder the implications of the idea, but neither “resting on a foundation” nor “floating in space” apply to this notion. I’m making no comment at this time.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 06:57:25 PM »
...the Earth is not stationary but travelling upwards at by now immense speed, since it is claimed Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 ms-2. Apparently everything else we see - sun, moon and stars - is also accelerating at the same rate with the Earth. This is called Universal Acceleration and is this site’s explanation of what the rest of the world calls gravity.
If everything is accelerating at the same speed and direction then this 'acceleration' would not be discernible, just like when you are traveling in an airplane at 400 mph along with the plates, napkins, and chairs.  There is no sense of motion, thus there would be no 'force' and you would still have to explain gravity.    BTW, 'up' would have no meaning. 

But you are still not accounting for the issue about the shape of the earth.  Since you agree the Earth is not set on a foundation, but is detached, thus whether floating or accelerating it still would take the shape of every other large mass and be a globe.  Blow a flat bubble and prove me wrong.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 08:28:01 PM »
But you are still not accounting for the issue about the shape of the earth.  Since you agree the Earth is not set on a foundation, but is detached, thus whether floating or accelerating it still would take the shape of every other large mass and be a globe.  Blow a flat bubble and prove me wrong.

I’m not accounting for or agreeing with anything. I only told you what you’ll find in the wiki, not what I think about it, nor whether I’ll blow any bubbles. Read a few threads as well as the FAQ and you’ll get a better feel for this place and the characters who may be found, as well as the opinions voiced and argued over. Four days since you joined is not enough to understand what sort of forum this is. Good luck!
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 09:18:21 PM »
...the Earth is not stationary but travelling upwards at by now immense speed, since it is claimed Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 ms-2. Apparently everything else we see - sun, moon and stars - is also accelerating at the same rate with the Earth. This is called Universal Acceleration and is this site’s explanation of what the rest of the world calls gravity.
If everything is accelerating at the same speed and direction then this 'acceleration' would not be discernible, just like when you are traveling in an airplane at 400 mph along with the plates, napkins, and chairs.  There is no sense of motion, thus there would be no 'force' and you would still have to explain gravity.    BTW, 'up' would have no meaning. 



You may be confusing "acceleration" and "velocity".  Humans have no means of detecting velocity (although we sometimes think we can, from clues such as perception of relative movement, engine noise, wind on our face etc).  We can, however detect acceleration, using our sense of feeling, sense of self and our inner-ear thingies.  When the aeroplane, passengers, chairs and napkins are all travelling at 400 mph then, yes, there is no perception of velocity.  When the First Officer bounces the thing onto the runway, however, that is an acceleration of the aeroplane, and all the passengers, chairs and plates feel it. 

The FE concept is that UA is accelerating the Earth, and celestial objects at 9.8 m/s/s but not (for some reason) people, animals, buildings, chairs and napkins.  So the FE concept of what we Globies call gravity, is that everything on the planet is being pushed up by the earth and that is the effect we feel as gravity. 

And as Longtitube said, don't think that everyone who posts on this site is a Flattie; its a forum. 

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 10:56:33 PM »
...the Earth is not stationary but travelling upwards at by now immense speed, since it is claimed Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 ms-2. Apparently everything else we see - sun, moon and stars - is also accelerating at the same rate with the Earth. This is called Universal Acceleration and is this site’s explanation of what the rest of the world calls gravity.
If everything is accelerating at the same speed and direction then this 'acceleration' would not be discernible, just like when you are traveling in an airplane at 400 mph along with the plates, napkins, and chairs.  There is no sense of motion, thus there would be no 'force' and you would still have to explain gravity.    BTW, 'up' would have no meaning. 



You may be confusing "acceleration" and "velocity".  Humans have no means of detecting velocity (although we sometimes think we can, from clues such as perception of relative movement, engine noise, wind on our face etc).  We can, however detect acceleration, using our sense of feeling, sense of self and our inner-ear thingies.  When the aeroplane, passengers, chairs and napkins are all travelling at 400 mph then, yes, there is no perception of velocity.  When the First Officer bounces the thing onto the runway, however, that is an acceleration of the aeroplane, and all the passengers, chairs and plates feel it. 

The FE concept is that UA is accelerating the Earth, and celestial objects at 9.8 m/s/s but not (for some reason) people, animals, buildings, chairs and napkins.  So the FE concept of what we Globies call gravity, is that everything on the planet is being pushed up by the earth and that is the effect we feel as gravity. 

And as Longtitube said, don't think that everyone who posts on this site is a Flattie; its a forum.

Anything that's accelerating is being pushed. Do FE'ers ever speculate as to what's pushing the universe upward.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2020, 05:23:54 PM »
But you are still not accounting for the issue about the shape of the earth.  Since you agree the Earth is not set on a foundation, but is detached, thus whether floating or accelerating it still would take the shape of every other large mass and be a globe.  Blow a flat bubble and prove me wrong.

I’m not accounting for or agreeing with anything. I only told you what you’ll find in the wiki, not what I think about it, nor whether I’ll blow any bubbles. Read a few threads as well as the FAQ and you’ll get a better feel for this place and the characters who may be found, as well as the opinions voiced and argued over. Four days since you joined is not enough to understand what sort of forum this is. Good luck!
You are making false assumptions.  I have debated this issue for years, on this and other forums.  I only recently signed up AGAIN with a new user name.  So, you take no position on the shape of the Earth.  :)  We all know this entire 'flat Earth' nonsense is a joke.  Obviously, the Earth could not be constantly accelerating because eventually the planet would achieve the speed of light.  To hide this fact, the Wiki suggests meaningless formulae in lieu of explanation.
I suggest you focus on the argument and leave the ad hominems alone.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2020, 06:25:03 PM »
Anything that's accelerating is being pushed. Do FE'ers ever speculate as to what's pushing the universe upward.

... or pulling?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 09:19:22 PM »
Anything that's accelerating is being pushed.
False.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline SteelyBob

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 09:21:44 PM »
The speed of light isn’t the only problem with the constant acceleration hypothesis. Aside from the fact that it requires the sun and moon etc to also be accelerating at the same rate, there is also the massive issue of energy. Unlike a centripetal force, where no work is done because force and velocity are orthogonal, a linear acceleration requires energy. Where is the massive energy source for this magical acceleration? What is pushing (or pulling) us? Moreover, because work done is force x velocity, if the earth is accelerating constantly then the energy required to achieve a constant acceleration would actually increase as we went faster. Who or what is controlling this energy source to achieve such perfect linear acceleration?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2020, 09:41:31 PM »
Einstein said that nothing could go faster than the speed of light, but he also said that nothing could reach the speed of light. The equations in the Wiki are from Special Relativity, which says that a body can accelerate forever without reaching the speed of light. Relative frames of references, etc.

Alternatively, it may also be that there are no speed limits. I don't believe Einstein actually performed any experiments on that.

See these two articles:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Michelson-Morley_Experiment

Summary: "Our light experiments can't see the Earth moving around the Sun. Everything must be moving relative to each other. The only standard is the speed of light, which is consistent, and which everything moves relative to."

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sagnac_Experiment

Summary: "Nooooooo. Those experiments which show SR to be incorrect must be exceptions to the rule."
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2020, 10:15:13 PM »
Anything that's accelerating is being pushed. Do FE'ers ever speculate as to what's pushing the universe upward.

... or pulling?

Yes, I should have said pushed or pulled.

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2020, 10:25:41 PM »
Einstein said that nothing could go faster than the speed of light, but he also said that nothing could reach the speed of light. The equations in the Wiki are from Special Relativity, which says that a body can accelerate forever without reaching the speed of light. Relative frames of references, etc.

Alternatively, it may also be that there are no speed limits. I don't believe Einstein actually performed any experiments on that.

See these two articles:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Michelson-Morley_Experiment

Summary: "Our light experiments can't see the Earth moving around the Sun. Everything must be moving relative to each other. The only standard is the speed of light, which is consistent, and which everything moves relative to."

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sagnac_Experiment

Summary: "Nooooooo. Those experiments which show SR to be incorrect must be exceptions to the rule."

Tom, you are mixing up Special and General Relativity. Even if you don't believe gravity exists, the science examines Earth, Sun and the planets in terms of gravitational attraction, so only General Relativity describes their behaviour.

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The theory of relativity usually encompasses two interrelated theories by Albert Einstein: special relativity and general relativity.[1] Special relativity applies to all physical phenomena in the absence of gravity. General relativity explains the law of gravitation and its relation to other forces of nature.[2] It applies to the cosmological and astrophysical realm, including astronomy.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2020, 10:27:31 PM »
The speed of light consistency thing is from SR, and was used to explain why experiment couldn't see the Earth's motion around the Sun. From the MM page:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Michelson-Morley_Experiment#Influence_of_the_MiMo_Experiment_on_Relativity

In a lecture titled How I Created the Theory of Relativity (Archive) Albert Einstein points this experiment out as a basis on developing Special Relativity:

  “ I was familiar with the strange results of Michelson’s experiment while I was still a student pondering these problems, and instinctively realized that, if we accepted his result as a fact, it would be wrong to think of the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether. This insight actually provided the first route that led me to what we now call the principle of special relativity. I have since come to believe that, although the Earth revolves around the Sun, its motion cannot be ascertained through experiments using light. ”
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:35:56 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline SteelyBob

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2020, 03:10:30 PM »
Einstein said that nothing could go faster than the speed of light, but he also said that nothing could reach the speed of light. The equations in the Wiki are from Special Relativity, which says that a body can accelerate forever without reaching the speed of light. Relative frames of references, etc.

Alternatively, it may also be that there are no speed limits. I don't believe Einstein actually performed any experiments on that.

The reason nothing can travel at or faster than the speed of light, c, is that a body of non zero resting mass would have infinite mass at light speed, and would therefore require infinite force and infinite energy to reach that speed.

This has all been borne out by experiment and observation.

The notion that we are on an ever-accelerating platform is simply not credible. Aside from the issue with the speed of light (and no, relativity does not get you out of it), there is no FET explanation of where the energy required to exert the accelerating force comes from, nor any explanation of what causes the sun, moon and other celestial bodies to accelerate.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2020, 04:16:00 PM »
Quote
This has all been borne out by experiment and observation.

What experiment?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline SteelyBob

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2020, 07:08:26 PM »
Quote
This has all been borne out by experiment and observation.

What experiment?

Pretty much every day in the large hadron collider.

If you want something more relatable, this is easily demonstrated using a beam of electrons, just like that in an old CRT television, as the force required to 'steer' the beam is slightly larger than you would expect using the unaccelerated mass of an electron - the electrons, travelling at a significant fraction of c, have extra, measurable mass as a result of their speed.

This was first discovered over a century ago - see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufmann–Bucherer–Neumann_experiments

It all ties in with other demonstrable phenomena, such as mass-energy equivalence as seen in nuclear power stations or atomic weapons.

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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2020, 12:44:01 AM »
What percentage of c do you think someone would measure themselves traveling at after 1000 years on a disc accelerating at 9.8m/s2, SteelyBob? How much do you think they would measure their own mass had increased as a result?

Re: Does the Earth rest on a solid foundation or does it float in space?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2020, 07:10:32 AM »
The speed of light is 300,000,000ms-1 so at an acceleration of 9.8ms-2 it takes 300,000,000/9.8 = 30,612,244.9 seconds to reach light speed, c.

Divide this by 60 to get 510,204.082 minutes.

Divide again by 60 to get 8503.4 hours

Finally, divide for a last time by 24 to get 354.3 days to reach light speed from a standing start at an acceleration of 9.8ms-2 which is less than a year.

This is why UA is nonsense: according to it the Earth reached light speed millenia ago and has continued accelerating at 9.8ms-2 ever since, even though the speed of light cannot be reached by anything with mass.

Please check the arithmetic in case I made a blunder.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.