Questions regarding gravity
« on: November 22, 2020, 12:14:37 AM »
Hello flat earthers.

I honestly have made an account here just to ask you a question on gravitational force around the Earth.

So Newton's law of universal gravitation is F = -GMm/R^2.

This means that the gravitational force is subject to three things:
1) The mass of the source of the gravitational force, in our case, the Earth, which is around 6x10^24 kg.
2) The mass of the object in question, so in this instance it can be anything - lets just say an average human being with mass 70kg.
3) The radius of the source in question - which is the radius of the Earth, which is around 6,317,000 metres. This is essentially, the displacement between you and the Earth's core.

So I will be taking those values as the working values.

Here is the context: You are on the Earth's LEVEL SURFACE. This context ensures that the radius value from the equation is constant.

I would like to ask you a question.

Is the force of gravity noticeably different if you are at different locations on Earth?
For example, is the gravitational force stronger in NYC and weaker in LA? Is it stronger in Berlin and weaker in Mexico city?

The obvious answer here is no. The force of gravity felt around the Earth is the same, because you don't feel noticeably lighter or heavier, regardless of where you are standing.
This phenomenon only works because you are equidistant from the source of the Earth's gravitational force, which is its core. And this also fits the equation I gave above - as all the variables stay the same where ever you are, the force is constant.

Hence, you will need to suggest a model where, regardless of where you are on the surface of the shape of the earth, the displacement from the Earth's core is constant. And the globe model fits this criteria. Regardless of where you are, granted that it is a level, smooth surface, on a surface of a sphere, you are always equidistant from its centre..

But if I take the current mainstream model of FE, this whole thing crumbles apart.

Firstly, I don't even know where your core is. But let me work with an appropriate model:

The mainstream FE model shows a disc shaped Earth with flat surfaces, so let's say that the 'core', or its centre of mass, is at the halfway point of its length, width, and depth.

Imagine a circular cake, or a circular pie. Now imagine that there is a little spherical marble at the location I just described above, embedded within the cake/pie.

That is your model's centre of mass, or 'core', for the purposes of this model.

Now, I am going to place a lego man at the centre of the cake, on its top surface, and a lego lady at the edge of the cake, also on its top surface. Now imagine: are their displacements from the centre marble the same?

Nope, they aren't. Clearly, the lego man is closer because the marble is directly underneath him, whereas for the lego lady, she has vertical AND horizontal displacement to travel to get to the marble.

So your model suggests that if you are at different locations around the Earth, your displacement from the Earth's core would change.

This poses problems, because according to Newton's law of universal gravitation, the gravitational force would vary. So technically, if your model was true, at the centre of your Earth, which I believe is the north pole, you would have to feel a lot heavier than you do at the south pole, which is the outer edge on your model.

So this leads me to think that your model is flawed. There are lots of other evidence I believe, such as being able to see the curvature of the Earth, etc, but this flaw on your explanation of gravity really makes me confused as to why you believe in FE.

If there are any mathematicians or physicists on the FE side, I'd love to hear from you.

If you aren't a physics person, I'd still like to hear from you too - but please let's keep the conversation civil.

Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 12:45:33 AM »

They don't believe in gravity. They believe in 'gravitation' cause by the earth accelerating 'upward'. They even have an explanation for not exceeding the speed of light. It's convenient that the direction of this acceleration is perpendicular to the 'plane' of the earth. Otherwise it would like the entire world was built on a hill. I'm not sure how they explain that the atmosphere (atomsplane?) doesn't get swept away, but I do know they will have an explanation.

Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 12:55:37 AM »

They don't believe in gravity. They believe in 'gravitation' cause by the earth accelerating 'upward'. They even have an explanation for not exceeding the speed of light. It's convenient that the direction of this acceleration is perpendicular to the 'plane' of the earth. Otherwise it would like the entire world was built on a hill. I'm not sure how they explain that the atmosphere (atomsplane?) doesn't get swept away, but I do know they will have an explanation.

So I am guessing that they will always have something to fall back on?

This upward acceleration doesn't make a lot of sense eiter - the wiki states that the Earth is at the centre of our solar system (it's quite funny how they call it a 'solar' system when they disregard the heliocentre model) and things still revolve around the Earth, things like comets and the sun and the moon. So they are saying that the Earth accelerates upwards continuously, so are they also saying that the entire solar system accelerates upwards with Earth? This is utter nonsense.

I appreciate what you've said and from looking around the forum, it seems that you are correct - thanks for your response.

Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2020, 12:59:00 AM »
Only marginally- relevant, but if the earth was shaped like a disk, and gravity worked in the traditional sense... things would be pretty weird. In the center, at the north pole, itd feel the same, you'd feel pulled downward at 9.8m/s^2. Once you start walking south, you start putting more and more mass behind you, so it's actually like you'd be walking up a progressively steeper hill... so if the earth was a disk and gravity was normal, itd actually seem like the earth was shaped like a bowl. If you made it to the south pole, or the edge of the disk, falling back inward would be your big concern, or you could take one more step onto the edge, and stand normally... sideways.
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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 01:08:31 AM »
Only marginally- relevant, but if the earth was shaped like a disk, and gravity worked in the traditional sense... things would be pretty weird. In the center, at the north pole, itd feel the same, you'd feel pulled downward at 9.8m/s^2. Once you start walking south, you start putting more and more mass behind you, so it's actually like you'd be walking up a progressively steeper hill... so if the earth was a disk and gravity was normal, itd actually seem like the earth was shaped like a bowl. If you made it to the south pole, or the edge of the disk, falling back inward would be your big concern, or you could take one more step onto the edge, and stand normally... sideways.

Thank you for your explanation! I see what you are trying to say.
I wonder if the flat earthers would agree with you on the fact that things would get surreal if their model was indeed true.
Thanks for the response.

Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2020, 01:14:48 AM »
 Most would not agree with a word of what I wrote. The wiki page explains the FE view of why we feel as though were under an acceleration of 9.8m/s^2. Look up Universal Acceleration.
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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2020, 02:29:57 AM »

They don't believe in gravity. They believe in 'gravitation' cause by the earth accelerating 'upward'. They even have an explanation for not exceeding the speed of light. It's convenient that the direction of this acceleration is perpendicular to the 'plane' of the earth. Otherwise it would like the entire world was built on a hill. I'm not sure how they explain that the atmosphere (atomsplane?) doesn't get swept away, but I do know they will have an explanation.

There 'math' is a joke.  The try to present Lorentz transform as an equation that can be integrated.  It's a transform.   It relates one space to another.  It's doesn't work with calculus.  Also, it deals only with constant velocity bodies not acceleration.
The purpose of this board is to directly examine, discuss and critique the Flat Earth Theory. We encourage posts in support of both the Flat Earth and Round Earth model (or, indeed, any other model). - Pete Svarrior

Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2020, 10:13:02 AM »
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16913.0

You might find this recent discussion interesting.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2020, 10:52:06 AM »
They don't believe in gravity. They believe in 'gravitation' cause by the earth accelerating 'upward'.
Lord, give me patience. If you're going to make statements like these, please try not to state the exact opposite of what's the case.

Once more, for those in the back row:

gravitation - a hypothetical attractive force between bodies with mass, a Round Earther favourite
gravity - the largely undisputed phenomenon of things falling down to Earth

Explained in more detail and in a RE context: https://byjus.com/physics/difference-between-gravitation-and-gravity/
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2020, 03:51:29 PM »
They don't believe in gravity. They believe in 'gravitation' cause by the earth accelerating 'upward'.
Lord, give me patience. If you're going to make statements like these, please try not to state the exact opposite of what's the case.

Once more, for those in the back row:

gravitation - a hypothetical attractive force between bodies with mass, a Round Earther favourite
gravity - the largely undisputed phenomenon of things falling down to Earth

Explained in more detail and in a RE context: https://byjus.com/physics/difference-between-gravitation-and-gravity/

Apologies if I misnamed it. Let me try again. FET does explain the effect known as gravity by the fact that the flat earth is acclerating upward. Correct?

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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2020, 07:01:33 PM »
Apologies if I misnamed it. Let me try again. FET does explain the effect known as gravity by the fact that the flat earth is acclerating upward. Correct?
Partially.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2020, 07:30:02 PM »
Apologies if I misnamed it. Let me try again. FET does explain the effect known as gravity by the fact that the flat earth is accelerating upward. Correct?
Partially.

Thank you for the partial answer.

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Re: Questions regarding gravity
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2020, 08:42:24 PM »
Thank you for the partial answer.
Have a few days off to figure out how Web forums work.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
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