Questions for Flat Earthers
« on: September 28, 2020, 01:22:01 AM »
Hello! I'm writing a profile over the flat earth movement for my composition class, so to better understand my topic I was hoping I could get some answers from all of you. What lead to believing that the world is flat instead of round? What lead you to have such distrust towards organizations like the government? How has being a flat earther affected your life?

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2020, 02:47:41 AM »
This should sum it up.......stillshot of footage from 100,000 ft in the atmosphere
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 04:38:54 AM »
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What lead to believing that the world is flat instead of round?

Personally I don't believe that the world is flat.  If you believe the earth is round, or flat, or dodecahedron you don't have knowledge/fact, you have faith.  Belief has no place in knowledge/fact, least of all scientific.  Far too many people believe when they ought to know. 

Many flat earth researchers consider themselves to be skeptical of a globe, or further - globe deniers.  Generally, both aforementioned groups accept/recognize that we do not have enough verified and verifiable data to determine the shape of the entire world.

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What lead you to have such distrust towards organizations like the government?

Historical and contemporary study of their actions.  The MIC is not your friend, and people should have listened to eisenhower (checkout his farewell address) and jefferson.

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How has being a flat earther affected your life?

It is important to understand that "flat earther" is a derogatory that virtually none self-ascribe to themselves.  Flat earther is intentionally conflated with stupid, primitive, denialist, anti-science, anti-intellectual, regressionist etc.  Flat earth researchers have wildly different approaches, views, and ideas.  There is no such thing as a "flat earther" nor a set of criteria that works to describe them.  The term is not for description, it's for slander.

That said, I'll answer the question that you should have asked : "How have your alternative views on the shape of the world affected your life?"

They have sparked a renewed interest in science, and the scientific method.  Its also put me in a slightly difficult spot, as i wish to have discussions about this "verboten" subject with many others but recognize that most people are simply not ready to critically evaluate their views (on this subject and scores of others).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 04:41:43 AM by jack44556677 »

Offline Cypher9

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2020, 04:47:31 PM »
I don't know where I stand on the issue. I know I don't believe NASA because there's just too much evidence showing that they are misleading people. Still, I don't know whether the earth is flat or not. I've been trying to work it out for some time. For instance I ask myself how is it that the atmosphere is able to turn at the same time as the earth as if it's glued in place. That doesn't make much sense to me. But then when I ask the question someone will come along and say something like Well, you don't understand how gravity works - which I have no answer for because they're right I don't understand how gravity works lol!

Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2020, 05:02:11 AM »
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Still, I don't know whether the earth is flat or not

You and everybody else!  There is only one way to determine the shape of the earth, and the data hasn't even been collected yet (let alone rigorously and repeatedly validated and verified). No one has any idea what the shape of the entire world is - they lack the verified and verifiable data to make such a determination.

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which I have no answer for because they're right I don't understand how gravity works lol!

You're in good company! Absolutely no one does! (except perhaps people that know gravity, beyond a natural law, is fiction)


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Offline Iceman2020

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2020, 11:50:47 AM »
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Still, I don't know whether the earth is flat or not

You and everybody else!  There is only one way to determine the shape of the earth, and the data hasn't even been collected yet (let alone rigorously and repeatedly validated and verified).


What way is that?
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2020, 01:21:08 PM »
... I don't believe NASA because there's just too much evidence showing that they are misleading people.

What has NASA got to do with it (where "it" is the shape of the Earth)?
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Offline Cypher9

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2020, 09:09:23 PM »
... I don't believe NASA because there's just too much evidence showing that they are misleading people.

What has NASA got to do with it (where "it" is the shape of the Earth)?

Many people become interested in Flat Earth after realising NASA has been lying to them. That's the connection.

Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2020, 11:20:28 PM »
@iceman

Rigorous and repeated measurement of the earth! (not the sky or any other damned thing - there seems to be significant confusion on this simple point)

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Offline Iceman2020

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2020, 11:54:51 PM »
Yeah ok, but how, specifically?

I mean we can all agree that it's really big, so we can agree that creates practical challenges in measuring it.

I wont claim to be an expert on any of these things, so you can take whatever you want with the studies that test RE vs FE I mention below, but they provide extremely useful information on earth's shape using simple observations and trigonometry.

- measure the angle/length of shadows at solar noon on an equinox. The changing angles will allow you to measure the changing shape of the earth

- measure the angle of the sun at sunrise and sunset on either equinox. It is always due east at sunrise and due west at sunset. These hold for everyone on earth, on any latitude.

-plot out a travel path with three 90-degree turns. When you have a big enough travel path, you can make an equilateral triangle. This would not be possible on a flat surface.

Like I said, I'm no expert on this, but I'm curious what repeatable measurements of the earth you would qualify could assess its shape.
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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2020, 08:43:17 AM »
Rigorous and repeated measurement of the earth!

We've been doing that for centuries: it's called surveying, and more generally topography.

And to be able to fit together everyone's measurements, we came up with the World Geodetic System.
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2020, 09:41:02 AM »
Measurement first done by Norwood in the 1600s to calculate length of one degree of meridian, and thereby the circumference.

Confirmed by a differing method, in two distinct locations, by the French Geodesic Mission, in the 1700s.

As was said, surveying and topography which followed, up to the present day.
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline RhesusVX

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2020, 11:43:59 AM »

We've been doing that for centuries: it's called surveying, and more generally topography.

And to be able to fit together everyone's measurements, we came up with the World Geodetic System.

Exactly, and don't you find it odd that despite our incredible modern ability to circumnavigate land, carry out surveillance, and topological analysis, FET still doesn't have a map that correlates with land mass shapes, sizes and distances that we know to be true in reality?  There are many maps proposed, none of which fit, but the one that seems to be the most widely accepted thus far is the standard "Azimuthal Polar Projection" of our accepted globe.  I'd be interested to know if the flat Earth community have faith in this map, or just use it because there is nothing else better.

I mean, it's really simple to dismiss.  On the globe Earth we know approximate distances between places.  Very roughly, because that's all it needs to be:

Australia to South America is approximately 10,000 miles
Australia to South Africa is approximately 6,500 miles

If you take the Azimuthal Polar Projection map, the shortest straight line distance between the same two places is very roughly as follows:

Australia to South America ends up being approximately 15,000 miles (5000 miles further than is measured on Earth)
Australia to South Africa ends up being approximately 12,500 miles (6000 miles further than is measured on Earth)

Taking into account all places and all known distances, it's literally impossible to map those onto a flat circle and maintain those same distances and proportions.  In order to support FET, either the shape and position of the land masses is incorrect, or the distances we are being told are incorrect/lies, none of which have been proven, so like NASA it comes down to things being a conspiracy.  Again, I'd have thought that if the Earth was indeed flat, and we can literally just sail around and measure these things quite easily, why hasn't anybody made an attempt to show the shape and position of the land masses to support a flat Earth map that also explains why we measure the distances that we do?

Antarctica is a whole other thing.
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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2020, 09:01:20 PM »
It appears the Flath earth society cannot prove that the very shape and location of the landmasses (continents) are where they are. Like how does anyone know that NASA is not lying about the very shape of the continents? Why has no one mapped the flat earth and why are there no flat earth navigation tools and techniques? Why are flat earthers trying to adapt round earth science to the flat earth! Everything and I mean everything is built on the spherical earth model and everything seems to work fine so really why does it matter what the shape of the earth is? It could be a square for all I care. I mean if all works then why does it matter?

Offline Cypher9

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Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2020, 07:31:39 PM »
...why does it matter what the shape of the earth is? It could be a square for all I care. I mean if all works then why does it matter?

If it turns out that the oceans are all contained as you'd expect, I believe it would show that we live within a system that's been purposely built. By what or whom is the million dollar question.

Re: Questions for Flat Earthers
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2020, 09:55:00 AM »
This should sum it up.......stillshot of footage from 100,000 ft in the atmosphere

The photo is quite damning. Despite the height it is still clearly flat. What does that say about the people looking out their tiny airplane window at 30,000ft alleging they can see the 'curvature of the earth?' The indoctrination is indeed strong if it can warp peoples sense of reality

Also, if the Earth were curved that horizon should be a sharp edge, but it is clearly blurred, so score another goal for the flat earth truthers

A flat earth doesn't need a perfect 2D straight line flatness. In areas there is no problem with it being convex/concave as you would expect when there are various degrees of hills/valleys