Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« on: September 25, 2020, 03:52:08 AM »
Hi,
Could somebody please explain to me why I can't see the Sun all day long. I looked at the wiki and it says the Sun is moving in a circle above the flat Earth. Shouldn't we see the Sun all day long? I don't think that this is the real way the sun is moving above our world.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2020, 04:07:14 AM »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2020, 04:10:51 AM »
But how does the light of the sun set into the Flat Earth?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2020, 04:27:24 AM »
I read the article, it doesn't explain how the light sets into the Flat Earth it just says it does. That's what I would like to know.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2020, 05:30:11 AM »
I read the article, it doesn't explain how the light sets into the Flat Earth it just says it does. That's what I would like to know.

There are links to the current theories in the article.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 05:59:11 AM »
I don't understand how something travelling at the speed of light is supposed to accelerate.

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2020, 06:07:22 PM »
As is the case with all pressure waves, acceleration (and deceleration) is instantaneous when negotiating different media.

The instant the light wave enters water, for example, it instantaneously decelerates, and when it exits the water it instantaneously accelerates.  Does that help?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2020, 06:10:37 PM »
I don't understand how something travelling at the speed of light is supposed to accelerate.
Then you likely need to familiarise yourself with relativity and frames of reference.
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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 06:39:42 AM »
I don't understand how something travelling at the speed of light is supposed to accelerate.

The speed of light isn’t constant at almost 300,000,000m/s, that’s only in a vacuum. If you know the refractive index of what it’s passing through, you can calculate what speed light will travel at in that medium. Just divide the speed of light in a vacuum by the refractive index of water (1.3), glass (1.5) or whatever.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 11:28:58 PM »
Longitube, I see your point, but here's a better explanation
Einsteins theory of relativity states that you can never reach the speed of light. You can accelerate at 9.8 m/s^2 forever, and still never reach the speed of light. It seems counter-intuitive, but there you have it. You can perceive an infinite acceleration. An outside observer would see your speed asymptotically approaching c, but you would perceive your acceleration as constant unless you change this.

This is due to the time dilation that occurs at relativistic speeds. As you approach the speed of light, your perception of time slows down. In other words, 1 year to you could be 10 years to an outside observer in a fixed frame of reference. Because of this, you perceive a constant acceleration even though you are accelerating at a slower rate to an outside observer.

Basically, with reduced numbers:

Let's simplify things and say that the speed of light is 100 m/s.
As you approach the speed of light, the speed at which you perceive time decreases, at a rate of 1/√(1-v^2/c^2) (I apologize for the messy formatting, I'm not the best with bbc.)

In other words, time runs 15 percent slower at .5 c and slows asymptotically as you approach c. As you approach c, your acceleration slows to an outside observer: however, because your perception of time is slowing at an identical rate, it cancels the slowing. You can perceive your acceleration to last forever. But you will seem to be going very slowly to anyone else.

Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 06:18:05 AM »
Regicide, thanks for the condensed version, I was aware of the relativistic implications and also how they’re drawn on for UA. Since it takes less than a year at 9.8m/s2 to reach near light speed, for all of the history of life the Earth has been travelling “upwards” at almost light speed - as implied by the hypotheses found in the wiki. The immense energy input needed to do this is supposedly from an “aetheric wind” which is accelerating the world, plus sun, moon and stars but doesn’t affect you and me, because we can jump up and have to wait for the world to catch us up a fraction of a second later. This also belies the notion there is nothing beyond our world and the “dome” because it’s travelling through somewhere at near lightspeed, dudes. It does give a convenient excuse next time someone suggests it’s time you lost some weight: it’s relativistic mass gain, not too many potatoes. And someone said this was a simpler explanation of the cosmos...

None of which answers the OP. Why can’t we see the Sun at all hours of the day and night?? Interested parties would like a sane explanation.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 07:18:06 AM »
This also belies the notion there is nothing beyond our world and the “dome” because it’s travelling through somewhere at near lightspeed, dudes.
I'll give you a hint. The name "Universal Acceleration" contain the word "universal".
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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 09:45:25 AM »
This also belies the notion there is nothing beyond our world and the “dome” because it’s travelling through somewhere at near lightspeed, dudes.
I'll give you a hint. The name "Universal Acceleration" contain the word "universal".

That’s interesting, so that means the universe is accelerating at 9.8m/s2?
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 10:12:25 AM »
That’s interesting, so that means the universe is accelerating at 9.8m/s2?
Have you considered reading the definition of the term you're discussing? It'd move this conversation ahead by a long shot.
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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 11:21:13 AM »
I don’t mean to be obtuse, the wiki only claims Earth to be accelerating upwards, not the universe. If the universe were meant, the claim would become meaningless. How would anyone demonstrate the universe - you, me, the world and all it contains, sun, moon, stars and whatever else is out there - accelerates. Compared to what? What possible reference point is available to observe this acceleration from when everything is said to accelerate. However, I’m sure you meant something else, eh?
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 11:29:41 AM »
I don’t mean to be obtuse, the wiki only claims Earth to be accelerating upwards, not the universe.
I don't think it's possible to reach that conclusion after reading the entire article. If you skimmed it or only read the first few sentences, maybe.

However, it does quite explicitly state the following:

Objects on the earth's surface have weight because all sufficiently massive celestial bodies are accelerating upward at the rate of 9.8 m/s^2 relative to a local observer immediately above said body.

How would anyone demonstrate the universe - you, me, the world and all it contains, sun, moon, stars and whatever else is out there - accelerates.
Well, you could use an accelerometer.

Compared to what? What possible reference point is available to observe this acceleration from when everything is said to accelerate.
Seriously, please consider reading the article.

Objects on the earth's surface have weight because all sufficiently massive celestial bodies are accelerating upward at the rate of 9.8 m/s^2 relative to a local observer immediately above said body.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 11:34:05 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 08:46:13 PM »
Well, there we are: you thought the OP was asking about relativity matters and I thought he was asking about light travelling at different speeds in different media or none. You thought I was making a remark about “(not quite) universal acceleration” and I thought you were doubling down on the word “universal”. Sometimes it helps to make sure what each is talking about.

Yes I’ve read the article, several times. I notice several things, starting with your quotation from the wiki that:
Quote
all sufficiently massive celestial bodies are accelerating upward at the rate of 9.8 m/s^2 relative to a local observer immediately above said body
The OP might be interested in that, since the Sun, Moon, stars and planets are always (clouds permitting) in view by day or night as applicable. By the article's own logic, this confirms planets and stars as massive objects.

There's the much-mentioned equivalence principle:
Quote
in a relative frame of reference, it is not possible to locally discern whether the frame is accelerating upwards, or if the object inside the frame is affected by gravity
which is usually used on this site to maintain that instead of gravity, Earth is accelerating "upwards" at 9.8m/s2. It could as easily be argued that instead of accelerating upwards, Earth is subject to gravity which will accelerate objects near to its surface downwards at 9.8m/s2. Impasse – there is no absolute frame of reference, as Galileo Galilei would have told us. The equivalence principle wasn't devised to propose a flat earth, but to formally equate inertial and gravitational mass; a necessary precondition of Einsteinian relativity, both special and general. For some centuries this had been suspected and increasingly assumed, but Einstein was the first to fully incorporate it into theory. Many experimental measurements since have confirmed this as a fact. Whoever came up with UA from equivalence was adding two and two and getting about fifty.

Apart from some mathematics to account for the impossibility of an object with mass reaching the actual speed of light in a vacuum, the article rather peters out on facts at that. It's time some people put their efforts where their hypotheses are.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2020, 09:49:54 AM »
That's quite a few words to say absolutely nothing. But I'm glad you finally read the article.

In the meantime, if you have a point, make it.
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Re: Question about the Sun in the flat Earth model.
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 09:57:59 PM »
I read the article, it doesn't explain how the light sets into the Flat Earth it just says it does. That's what I would like to know.

There are links to the current theories in the article.

I saw those links too.
One of them points to the "magnification of the Sun at sunset".
Unfortunately, it says that only the Sun is magnified at that distance, but not the gap between the Sun and the horizon.
Why the gap between the Sun and the Horizon, at the same location as the Sun itself, doesn't get magnified by the very same mechanism?
So many people directly measure so many things.
And they are getting more precise each day.