Offline Usagi

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Why? To What End???
« on: September 25, 2020, 02:29:03 AM »
First... honest full disclosure... I am NOT a believer in a flat Earth.

But I respectfully ask you the following question that I really need a believable answer to.

WHY????
Why do you believe that there is a world-wide conspiracy to hide the "fact" that the Earth is actually flat and not a sphere?
To what end?

If what you believe is true, then why try to deceive the world into thinking Earth is a sphere?

How can you believe that across the globe (no pun intended) there are governments, groups of people, and scientists that would agree to conspire to deceive the rest of the world into believing the world is a sphere?

To what end??? Why? What do the conspirators get out of it?

If you believe the world has always been flat, do you believe that there has always been this conspiracy from the very beginning? What was their reason for the conspiracy back then? How did conspirators keep the secret??

People couldn't even keep an illicit sex act in the Oval Office of the most powerful person on Earth a secret... and that only involved two people. There must be millions of people actively working at keeping the conspiracy of a flat Earth secret... How do you reconcile so many people that must know the truth can keep the conspiracy alive?

Please... help me understand your reasoning, and how you think it is possible to keep the secret for so long, and why it should be a secret at all if it were to be true.

I ask again... Why???? and to what end??? HOW????

Thank you.

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2020, 11:30:36 AM »
Tom and the lads nailed it in the faq/wiki, you should really give it a read. https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

Also thinking that brothel pimping "slick willy" car salesman on his way to pedophile island was the most powerful person in the world is profoundly naive. Modern american presidents are profoundly poor compared to the owners, whom they can see some of - having reached closer proximity to the glass ceiling.  That's why the clinton foundation commits so many crimes, and obama does so many advertisements/tv spots - they need money.  If you think that is power, that makes me sad.

Also, I feel compelled to clarify - belief of any kind is completely unwelcome in knowledge/fact, especially scientific.  If you BELIEVE the earth is any particular shape then you have faith, not knowledge/science. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 11:43:26 AM by jack44556677 »

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2020, 05:27:00 AM »
The Why is simple:

If The Heliocentric  model(1492-1515A.D copernicus) is false and the earth is flat, then the big bang theory(1920-1930s) doesnt make sense and falls apart. If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory(1850s? Charles Darwin aka darwinism,) also falls flat.

So you see...the moon landings wasnt so much about landing on the moon...it was about validating the Heliocentric  model and the  BBT
By group dynamics....(mass populations witnessing "apollo 11 1969") 
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2020, 09:08:06 AM »
If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory(1850s? Charles Darwin aka darwinism,) also falls flat. 
Does it? How so?
And we had photos and video from space long before the moon landings.
You still haven’t indicated any underlying motive? Who is hiding this from us and why?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2020, 07:28:43 AM »
Tom and the lads nailed it in the faq/wiki, you should really give it a read. https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

Also thinking that brothel pimping "slick willy" car salesman on his way to pedophile island was the most powerful person in the world is profoundly naive. Modern american presidents are profoundly poor compared to the owners, whom they can see some of - having reached closer proximity to the glass ceiling.  That's why the clinton foundation commits so many crimes, and obama does so many advertisements/tv spots - they need money.  If you think that is power, that makes me sad.

Also, I feel compelled to clarify - belief of any kind is completely unwelcome in knowledge/fact, especially scientific.  If you BELIEVE the earth is any particular shape then you have faith, not knowledge/science.


Hi,

Regarding your statement that belief of any kind is completely unwelcome in knowledge/fact, especially scientific... would this apply to someone whom believes in a space travel conspiracy? This would also be faith and not knowledge/science, correct?

Thanks.

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2020, 07:39:20 PM »
If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory(1850s? Charles Darwin aka darwinism,) also falls flat. 
Does it? How so?
And we had photos and video from space long before the moon landings.
You still haven’t indicated any underlying motive? Who is hiding this from us and why?

Please provide said evidence. You have the burden of proof my good fellow....

So, prove me wrong...present your case....

*Note*

1514- Heliocentric  model "copernican system"----------------------1903 plane invented(flight)-------------1920-1930s Big Bang theorem introduced and named------------1946-1954 operation  paperclip (high altitude "space flight" photos taken.-------1962 Operation  Fish bowl-----1969 apollo 11....

Research for yourself before making false statements  on matters in which you are misinformed.
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2020, 09:17:15 PM »
@GoldCashew

"Regarding your statement that belief of any kind is completely unwelcome in knowledge/fact, especially scientific... would this apply to someone whom believes in a space travel conspiracy? This would also be faith and not knowledge/science, correct?"

That is a good, and tricky question.  The recognition of the space travel conspiracy (hoaxing of "space" writ large) is evidence based, but still somewhat interpretive. It may be arguable that based on the available evidence that it is still more of a speculation than a "fact" - however with no positive evidence / proof of the possible existence of such a place as "space" (a violation of many natural laws) or space travel I would be equally justified in making the identical argument.

The presumptive, and mandated, perspective that space and space travel are real do not have adequate evidence that is even as compelling as the fraudulent footage that can trivially demonstrate the hoax. Factor in the scientific evidence that "space" cannot exist in the reality we have studied without violating many natural laws and I'd say the certainty on this "proto-fact" is very high.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 09:20:31 PM by jack44556677 »

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2020, 09:30:50 PM »
If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory(1850s? Charles Darwin aka darwinism,) also falls flat. 
Does it? How so?
And we had photos and video from space long before the moon landings.
You still haven’t indicated any underlying motive? Who is hiding this from us and why?

Please provide said evidence. You have the burden of proof my good fellow....

So, prove me wrong...present your case....

OK. You said that "If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory also falls flat.
Please explain what the connection between those two things is.

I don't need to provide evidence of photos from space pre-Apollo. You can Google that yourself. You can call the photos and videos fake of course, but pre Apollo were the Gemini and Mercury programmes, you can find plenty of photos from them.

Quote
Research for yourself before making false statements  on matters in which you are misinformed.

What false statements have I made? And the topic of this thread is about the motive for FE being repressed. You have still provided none.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2020, 09:44:02 PM »
If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory(1850s? Charles Darwin aka darwinism,) also falls flat. 
Does it? How so?
And we had photos and video from space long before the moon landings.
You still haven’t indicated any underlying motive? Who is hiding this from us and why?

Please provide said evidence. You have the burden of proof my good fellow....

So, prove me wrong...present your case....

OK. You said that "If big bang is big smoke...then evolutionary theory also falls flat.
Please explain what the connection between those two things is.

I don't need to provide evidence of photos from space pre-Apollo. You can Google that yourself. You can call the photos and videos fake of course, but pre Apollo were the Gemini and Mercury programmes, you can find plenty of photos from them.

Quote
Research for yourself before making false statements  on matters in which you are misinformed.

What false statements have I made? And the topic of this thread is about the motive for FE being repressed. You have still provided none.

If the big bang proposal is false, and "billions of years" is also false, then evolution hinges on big bang for its billions of years to support  6 out of the 7 proposed types of evolution. Basically,  if the earth is only thousands of years old, and big bang is nonsense, then evolution doesnt make sense in 6 of its types. The only type of evolution we have actually witnessed in human history is " macro Evolution" or speciation within animal families or classifications. GOD'S  Holy Word refers to them as "kinds"

In essence, if you cannot see the correlation between Heliocentricism, geocentrical flat earth model, and evolution.....I cannot help you. Research US Gov operations from 1946-1969...
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 08:51:02 AM »
If the big bang proposal is false, and "billions of years" is also false, then evolution hinges on big bang for its billions of years to support  6 out of the 7 proposed types of evolution.
Right, but as you have noted the theory of evolution predates the Big Bang theory. So clearly an old earth was known long before the Big Bang theory which is more about how the universe started.

Why could a flat earth not also be old and evolution have occurred on it? Evolution doesn't require a particular earth shape, it simply requires time and the right conditions.

And you still haven't indicated who is trying to hide the true shape of the earth from us and why, which is the point of this thread.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 09:23:36 AM »
In essence, if you cannot see the correlation between Heliocentricism, geocentrical flat earth model, and evolution.....I cannot help you. Research US Gov operations from 1946-1969...

If you've explained it somewhere else, outwith this forum, please provide a link.

If you haven't explained it anywhere else, and you're unwilling or unable to engage with folks here and now to explain what you mean, then it's probably best you just leave. Taking a holier-than-thou attitood as though what you're thinking should be blindingly obvious to folks who don't know you or your thinking is just a dead-end.
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 02:16:00 PM »
If the big bang proposal is false, and "billions of years" is also false, then evolution hinges on big bang for its billions of years to support  6 out of the 7 proposed types of evolution.
Right, but as you have noted the theory of evolution predates the Big Bang theory. So clearly an old earth was known long before the Big Bang theory which is more about how the universe started.

Why could a flat earth not also be old and evolution have occurred on it? Evolution doesn't require a particular earth shape, it simply requires time and the right conditions.

And you still haven't indicated who is trying to hide the true shape of the earth from us and why, which is the point of this thread.


Firstly, Charles Darwin  IS the only reason evolution theorem exists in it's current form. Before his study on the Galapagos islands  in the 1800s, he was a preacher/minister, he was a christian!! For thousands of years, civilizations  knew the earth was geocentrical and flat in nature, some even theorized of cubed earth. None of these civilizations  before 800 bc, thought we "evolved" from bacteria over "millions" of years.

    As far as why they would hide the shape of the earth, well simple: if the Heliocentrical copernican system is wrong and a lie, then at the time they found out that it indeed was wrong (Oct 24, 1946 Operation  High Jump) the big bang, evolution,  and the copernican system were all well established in school systems  and in the mass population  of earth, "common knowledge" if you will. Think about this: If, when in 1948(?) I believe....when the first achieved high altitude flight with the help of German astrophysicists in operation  paper Clip, if they found out the earth was flat, AND that the firmament (Genesis 1:6-7) is a structural  expanse, Do you think they would inform the general public that they cannot get high enough to break the glass ceiling? That there is no space that they can reach? Of course not...they would do as you see they did...they first established NASA in 1958, then in 1959 signed the Antarctic  Peace treaty then in 1962 Operation  Fish Bowl( high altitude  nuclear  weapons  "testing") look up starfish explosion 1962). Then in 1969 they faked a moon landing to support their hoax by using group dynamics  to confirm its validity.
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2020, 02:33:44 PM »
I don't want to take anything away from any religious beliefs you have, but why couldn't Darwin be a Christian AND a scientist? These do not need to be mutually exclusive labels by any means.

I know a geology professor who is a leading expect on an ancient mountain belt, one that formed 1.2 - 1 billion years ago and was completely eroded by 700 million years ago. He is a devout christian and has published many books about how he reconciles scientific evidence and biblical teachings and descriptions. I've always admired him a great deal for that, and hes also just one of the genuinely nicest people I've ever met.

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"Earth isnt round or flat. It's fucked."
- Ricky LaFleur

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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2020, 08:39:34 PM »
Also, the very concept of Big Bang was introduced by a Belgian catholic priest called Georges Lemaître. He was named a "Domestic prelate" by the Pope several decades later, so it seems he could cope with both his faith and his scientific career.

The religious views of Charles Darwin are the subject of a full Wikipedia article on their own. It's almost 100 kilobytes long, so it's not a trivial matter.
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 04:52:53 AM »
I don't want to take anything away from any religious beliefs you have, but why couldn't Darwin be a Christian AND a scientist? These do not need to be mutually exclusive labels by any means.

I know a geology professor who is a leading expect on an ancient mountain belt, one that formed 1.2 - 1 billion years ago and was completely eroded by 700 million years ago. He is a devout christian and has published many books about how he reconciles scientific evidence and biblical teachings and descriptions. I've always admired him a great deal for that, and hes also just one of the genuinely nicest people I've ever met.



To be honest, I deduced, for a long period, that evolution and big bang theorems were the method the LORD God used in creation. In that, by 6 days bieng millions of years each "day". So, in essence I was on the same ideology  as you speak of. However, be as it may, this is the surmise of it all,  per God's  Holy Word, Man brought death into the world(1 Corinthians 15:21) and by big bang and especially  evolution(darwinism aka " natural selection ") death brought man into the world. As this may well be an over simplification, it is still inherently relevant and cohesive to my point.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 04:57:31 AM by ÆternisTaciti86 »
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 05:06:26 AM »
Also, the very concept of Big Bang was introduced by a Belgian catholic priest called Georges Lemaître. He was named a "Domestic prelate" by the Pope several decades later, so it seems he could cope with both his faith and his scientific career.

The religious views of Charles Darwin are the subject of a full Wikipedia article on their own. It's almost 100 kilobytes long, so it's not a trivial matter.

As stated in my response above, in God's  Holy  word,  man brought death by sin, evolution/ darwinism  says death brought man...

As for lamaiter, his theistic philosophy ,by my summation, cannot congeal  with a "something came from nothing" deduction. As quoted by Julian Huxley, a British evolutionary biologist, said; “It is easier to believe that there was nothing before there was something than that there was something before there was nothing.” quite the quandary  indeed....
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 07:51:43 AM »
Firstly, Charles Darwin  IS the only reason evolution theorem exists in it's current form. Before his study on the Galapagos islands  in the 1800s, he was a preacher/minister, he was a christian!! For thousands of years, civilizations  knew the earth was geocentrical and flat in nature, some even theorized of cubed earth. None of these civilizations  before 800 bc, thought we "evolved" from bacteria over "millions" of years.
Right. And ancient civilizations thought that everything was made of 4 elements - fire, water, air, earth. Many of then believed in multiple Gods.
Our modern civilization and technologies are built on many things which ancient civilizations hadn't discovered or didn't understand.
I am a Christian and my take on it all is that had I been born 500 years ago I probably would think that the Scriptures were scientifically accurate.
But being born now I understand them in a different way. Genesis tells us that we are a creation, it tells us Who created us and for what purpose. It also tells us about our need for redemption - the New Testament deals with that of course.
The exact timescales and mechanisms of creation - leave that to science. I see them as complimentary rather than contradictory.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline ÆternisTaciti86

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Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 08:56:05 AM »
Firstly, Charles Darwin  IS the only reason evolution theorem exists in it's current form. Before his study on the Galapagos islands  in the 1800s, he was a preacher/minister, he was a christian!! For thousands of years, civilizations  knew the earth was geocentrical and flat in nature, some even theorized of cubed earth. None of these civilizations  before 800 bc, thought we "evolved" from bacteria over "millions" of years.
Quote

Quote
Right. And ancient civilizations thought that everything was made of 4 elements - fire, water, air, earth. Many of then believed in multiple Gods.

True, however I encourage  you to read "False Prophet  Azazel" by John of the gentiles. It explains in detail the origin of Roman, Greek, Norse, Hindi, Buddhism.. mythologies. It is a fascinating read.


 
Quote
Our modern civilization and technologies are built on many things which ancient civilizations hadn't discovered or didn't understand.

Agreed to a certain extent, take the United  States: Its heritage and history owes most of its cultural roots to Europe with a sprinkling of vast and diverse cultures from across the earth. Also, notice the United  states uses Latin in its seals? Such as E PLURIBUS UNUM (out of many, one), also consider the use of the " Eagle" as their official mascot if you will. Combining these two facts, you can trace back this ideology and symbology to ancient Rome. In essence, before Rome fell in 507 b.c, it had two 2 colonies, France and what is modern England. These two lands were colonies of the Roman Empire and once the city fell, it is fairly safe to assume they fled to these colonies and settled them. So as I agree our civilization is much more technologically sound and scientifically advanced, much of the philosophies and ideologies that were manifested in ancient Rome and Greece in the late BCE era, is still taught today. For instance,  The core comprehension of the Big Bang theory is the copernican system of cosmology "Heliocentric model", however it is known fact that pythagoras  conceived a theory that toyed with the notion of a spherical earth and planetary bodies, so did newton.

 
I am a Christian and my take on it all is that had I been born 500 years ago I probably would think that the Scriptures were scientifically accurate.
But being born now I understand them in a different way. Genesis tells us that we are a creation, it tells us Who created us and for what purpose. It also tells us about our need for redemption - the New Testament deals with that of course.
The exact timescales and mechanisms of creation - leave that to science. I see them as complimentary rather than contradictory.

      It is important to note that the word "Science" is a dirivitive of the Latin-"Scientia" which means Mans knowledge or systematized knowledge. In fact: philosophy,  science, Natural  Magic(would be known today as an archaic form of the modern  term "physics"), also alchemy(chemistry,"pharma") all are synonymous terminology. Now, this is not intended to be a disagreement nor rebuttal, simply a interesting set of facts for you to consider.
"Never argue with ignorance, for they will drag you to their level, and beat you with experience"

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2020, 05:17:27 AM »
Quote
To be honest, I deduced, for a long period, that evolution and big bang theorems were the method the LORD God used in creation. In that, by 6 days bieng millions of years each "day".

Wowee zowee kablowee.  Do you know kent hovind? He's not perfect, but I think he might be able to help you.

Re: Why? To What End???
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2020, 05:56:41 AM »
Firstly, Charles Darwin  IS the only reason evolution theorem exists in it's current form. Before his study on the Galapagos islands  in the 1800s, he was a preacher/minister, ...

No, he wasn’t. His father sent him to study in preparation for a possible career as a country parson after neglecting his medical studies in Edinburgh but he didn’t actually finish the process before the Beagle voyage.