#### JSS

• 844
• Math is math!
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2020, 06:08:57 PM »
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.

So is the satellite shot straight up in the air. Since the satellite stays at the same location above Earth?

No, they use path C.  The satellite is moving around the Earth, but the Earth is also spinning.  A geo satellite simply makes sure the orbital period is the same as one day.

It's like if you do the bucket on a rope experiment, swinging it around you.  From your point of view the bucket is always right in front of you, but that's because it is spitting at the same period that you are.  To someone standing to the side, they see you and the bucket spinning around.

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2020, 06:12:34 PM »
So what would be the flight path for getting a Geosynchronous satellite into orbit?

Same setup as path C in this image.

The view is looking down from the North Pole, so the rocket orbits the Earth in the same direction as it rotates.

What makes a satellite Geosynchronous is that it orbits in the same direction as the Earth and takes exactly 24 hours to make one orbit. That keeps it positioned over the same spot, so from our perspective it doesn't move.

The faster an object moves the further out it's orbit, so you just give a satellite a very specific speed and get the orbital time to be whatever you want.

So is the satellite shot straight up in the air. Since the satellite stays at the same location above Earth?

No, they use path C.  The satellite is moving around the Earth, but the Earth is also spinning.  A geo satellite simply makes sure the orbital period is the same as one day.

It's like if you do the bucket on a rope experiment, swinging it around you.  From your point of view the bucket is always right in front of you, but that's because it is spitting at the same period that you are.  To someone standing to the side, they see you and the bucket spinning around.

So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

#### Tumeni

• 2375
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2020, 08:58:17 AM »
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### GreatATuin

• 279
• It's turtles all the way down
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2020, 10:38:05 AM »
Make that 100%: a geostationary orbit is only possible over the Equator, and as far as I know there is no launch site on the Equator (the closest is probably Kourou at 5 degrees north).
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2020, 02:38:03 PM »
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.

Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

#### JSS

• 844
• Math is math!
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2020, 03:17:21 PM »
So if I want something to orbit directly above my head and stay above that same spot. I launch it at a 45 degree angle?

The spot where you want it to be will, 99.99% of the time, NOT be above the launch site. So yes, you have to deviate from the area above the launch site, at the very least. And that's path C.

Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.

#### Tumeni

• 2375
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2020, 04:07:17 PM »
Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2020, 05:46:26 PM »
Being that satellites weight up to 6tons it will need as much or more fuel as a space shuttle going to space since it is heavier than most space capsules ever used. Then it needs fuel to slam on the breaks to travel the same speed as earths spin.

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

The capsule was serviced by an aft-facing conical equipment module 2.25 meters (7.4 ft) long by 2.43 meters (8.0 ft), weighing 2,270 kilograms (5,000 lb) containing nitrogen and oxygen breathing gasses, batteries, fuel, attitude control thrusters, and the retrorocket. It could support flights as long as ten days.
Wikipedia › wiki › Space_capsule
Space capsule - Wikipedia

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2020, 06:07:59 PM »

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.
[/quote]

But if I’m trying to park across the street I’ll drive straight across.  No need to merge.

And I’m having a hard time understanding.  It takes rockets/satellites to go 17,000mph to get into orbit.  Once there some stay at that speed without any other boosting or thrusting and others decline to the speed of the Earth 1,000mph or directly over the same surface spot.

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2020, 06:23:43 PM »

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
[/quote]

#### JSS

• 844
• Math is math!
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2020, 06:31:27 PM »

It doesn't need any fuel to 'slam on the breaks' once it reaches orbit.

Think of it like merging onto the highway.  When you start, all the cars are going much faster and you have to accelerate and use fuel to reach them.  But once you match speed you don't have to hit the breaks to stop.

Same for satellites. The fuel is needed to boost them to the proper altitude, and to get to the correct speed.  After that it will stay in it's orbit without the need for any more massive boosting or thrust.

But if I’m trying to park across the street I’ll drive straight across.  No need to merge.

And I’m having a hard time understanding.  It takes rockets/satellites to go 17,000mph to get into orbit.  Once there some stay at that speed without any other boosting or thrusting and others decline to the speed of the Earth 1,000mph or directly over the same surface spot.
[/quote]

They need to go 70,000 mph to get into that specific orbit. More or less for higher or lower ones.

Satellites don't stop once they reach orbit, they keep going. Constantly circling the Earth.

Lets try an example with something spinning.  If you want to get on a merry-go-round you have to start running until you match the speed, then you can hop on.  You don't need to break or slow down or keep running, you can just sit there and ride the ride.  It doesn't matter how fast you were moving before, or how fast you are moving now, all that matters is you matched speed.

#### Tumeni

• 2375
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2020, 07:39:17 PM »
No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

Why are you adding a graphic of an Apollo Command Module, and quoting from a Wiki about Vostok, when we're talking about the Shuttle? You know, the Space Shuttle? The one that came along AFTER Apollo?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 07:43:26 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 70
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2020, 01:32:02 AM »
No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.

Why are you adding a graphic of an Apollo Command Module, and quoting from a Wiki about Vostok, when we're talking about the Shuttle? You know, the Space Shuttle? The one that came along AFTER Apollo?

I’m sorry! I meant Spacecraft. They retired the space shuttle and now going back to the spacecraft.

#### DuncanDoenitz

• 65
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2020, 08:02:00 AM »

No, the shuttle weighed 165,000 pounds when empty, or 73.6 tons. A satellite weighing 6 tons is roughly one twelfth of this, and will therefore require approx one-twelfth of the thrust, approximating to a fuel requirement of one twelfth.
[/quote]

You can't just compare mass of the spacecraft; it also depends on the required orbit.  Geostationary orbits require a much higher altitude and speed.  Spacex's Falcon Heavy, for instance, can theoretically put a payload of 63,800 kg into low earth orbit (like the shuttle and most earth-observation satellites)), but only 26,700 kg into geostationary orbit.

And any craft which goes into space is, by definition a "spacecraft".

#### Tron1002

• 44
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2020, 03:08:10 PM »
Here's a great video of rockets hitting the dome !!!   You ain't leaving boys and girls, deal with it.

i think its interesting how the contails remain luminated behind the rocket!  im guessing its the ionization of the upper atmosphere that causes this.   the same phenomina i think causes the nirthern and southern Auroras and is maybe the reason why the sky lights up during the day as the sun ionizes and excites the atmospgere which causes it to glow.  if someone has anything to add please do.
The Garden awaits...

#### Tumeni

• 2375
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2020, 03:32:55 PM »
i think its interesting how the contails remain luminated behind the rocket!

Maybe I'm missing something, but what do you think would prevent them being "luminated" ?

It was an early-morning launch (the GoFast one, in the video thumbnail), so the rocket starts out in sunlight, and continues to be so. The sun illuminates the trails.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 03:43:41 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tron1002

• 44
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2020, 10:09:45 PM »
its rocket #5 starting around 4:30 seconds.   theres clearly a blue haze illuminating the sky and theres no other clouds lit up.  i don't have any other explanation.
The Garden awaits...

#### JSS

• 844
• Math is math!
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2020, 11:35:58 PM »
its rocket #5 starting around 4:30 seconds.   theres clearly a blue haze illuminating the sky and theres no other clouds lit up.  i don't have any other explanation.

You mean this?  I'm not sure what I should be looking for.  I see some clouds?  Looks like a normal sky to me.

#### Tron1002

• 44
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2020, 12:16:12 AM »
the contrail anamoly starts at 5:32.   The rockets contrail is lighting up in two different locations.  i think its the powerful rocket exciting and ionizing the atmospheric particles which causes them to glow.   you see the same lighting effect with lightening, intense heat, and other phenomena.  at least that's my analysis so far.
The Garden awaits...

#### Tumeni

• 2375
##### Re: Please don't hit the dome. Astra
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2020, 07:13:28 AM »
the contrail anamoly starts at 5:32.   The rockets contrail is lighting up in two different locations.  i think its the powerful rocket exciting and ionizing the atmospheric particles which causes them to glow.   you see the same lighting effect with lightening, intense heat, and other phenomena.  at least that's my analysis so far.

The initial lighting of the contrail is the first stage ascending out of Earth's shadow into the sunlight.

It's a two-stage rocket. The contrail disappears when the first stage shuts off, and restarts with the second stage engine starting up. The gap in the contrail is the period where the first stage engine has stopped, but the second hasn't started yet.

The additional puffs of smoke/exhaust in the trail are the cold gas thrusters on the first stage orientating it for descent.

Watch this one with any SpaceX launch side-by-side, and match up the second stage ignition etc. with this video, around 2m30s to 2m45s from take-off.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 09:28:38 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?