Geology on a flat earth
« on: September 08, 2020, 10:55:47 AM »
One of the subjects that is rarely discussed in forums and youtube videos is the geology of the Earth in relation to the Flat Earth theory. In particular the geological theory of plate tectonics.

The earth's tectonic and volcanic activity is one of the most observable phenomena in the world. Volcanoes erupt continually and hundreds of measurable earthquakes occur each day. We also witness the destruction of the Earth's crust a destructive plate boundaries and formation of new rock at constructive plate boundaries  (e.g the mid-Atlantic ridge). Even more miraculously we see the birth of entire islands as they emerge from the ocean all thanks to the wonderful happenings beneath our feet. All of this is is observable and I assume undisputed.

Now I don't know what the current flat earth opinion is on this subject, but I will list a selection of things that must be occurring because of what we observe.
1. There must be a source of great heat and energy beneath the crust that is effectively breathing life into the earth. We see this with the molten rock that emerges at heats of 1000 degrees from the mantle. The new rock forming is essentially a recycling of the rock that gets gets dragged back into the mantle at destructive plate boundaries. It provides the Earth with vital minerals and gases that sustain the atmosphere and sea life. The cause of this energy, for obvious reasons is not observable with the naked eye.
2. As with all sources of energy, one day it will run out. Hopefully not soon haha, because we could not survive without it.
3. The continents are moving. You can actually measure the movement of the Earth's crust. This can be done all over the world, and it is easy to find figures for the movement of these plates each year. If you have the patience go to San Francisco and do it for yourself.  However, the speed of the crust moving differs, presumably depending on the size of the plate and the type of plate boundaries that it has. But this is open to discussion.
4. There must be a force acting on the plates causing them to move. The popular theory is a combination of convection currents in the mantle and slab pull, which is a downwards pull of the crust at destructive plate boundaries, that scientists would call gravity. I am open to discussing other theories for pate movement.
5. There has to have been huge collisions in continents throughout Earth's history to create mountains. Effectively the crust buckling as the two large land masses collide. We can actually measure the rise or fall in mountains depending on where they are in the cycle. Some mountain ranges are continually getting taller as the two continental plates push into each other. You could theorise that the volcanic activity is the cause of mountains, but the complete lack of volcanic activity in regions, as well as the lack of craters disputes this.


All of the above criteria must be met for a satisfactory theory. Now this doesn't even start with what is actually known about plate movement. The fact we can see pole reversals in the changing direction of magnetic minerals in the Earth alternating, outward of constructive plate boundaries. Matching fossil and geological records across continents, providing evidence for mass movement continent moving. Radiometric dating that provides the age of rocks, telling us the age of land masses. All the information from sediment that can be analysed to illustrate huge changes in sea levels and atmospheric conditions throughout history. The list endless. But I appreciate that lots of people won't ever get the chance to see this, so I'm not going to use this in the argument.

My main argument is that the only theory that matches the criteria is plate tectonic theory. The theory that the Earth is made up of several segments, varying in oceanic and continental crust, that are all moving due to forces in the mantle at various directions and speed and are responsible for the formation and destruction of the crust. My issue is that plate tectonic theory can't work on a two-dimensional plane. With the known positions of plate boundaries and their movement speeds, the shape of the Earth would never be able to maintain a circular disc like structure. Instead it would constantly change shape, literal gaps would form in the crust based on the popular flat earth model, the Antarctic wall would be moving. If you believe in an edge, plates would be falling off it.

I am interested to hear what you believe is happening with the Earth's tectonics. What is causing all of the the observable phenomena listed above? Do you believe in plate tectonic theory? Or is there another theory that would allow for this to all occur on a flat plane.

If anyone has any questions about this theory or geology in general I'd love to discuss it.

Hope everyone's healthy and doing well.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2020, 04:45:10 PM »
Theory is based on facts. Seeing as there is less known of the ocean floor (2/3rd earth surface) than the surface of the moon? How could anyone factually draw conclusions as to what the heck is going on down there?

Simple answer: you can't !
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 06:59:49 PM »
Theory is based on facts. Seeing as there is less known of the ocean floor (2/3rd earth surface) than the surface of the moon? How could anyone factually draw conclusions as to what the heck is going on down there?

Simple answer: you can't !

You can quite accurately map the bottom of the ocean using echosounders. We haven't the time, resources or energy to map the entire ocean floor. But the plate boundaries have been mapped and the movement measured

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 08:35:18 PM »
You say a couple times, "there must" as in YOU HAVE NO TRUE Knowledge of this. It's ridiculous to discount the creators flat earth, plates, movement, breaths, belches, heats, ice, waters and his construction, which you have no knowledge of. Scientist are not really that intelligent about his design.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 10:00:51 PM »
It's ridiculous to discount the creators flat earth
Well, it isn't because the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that the earth is a globe.
What is ridiculous is to cling to certain interpretations of Bible verses as the evidence stacks up against it.

Quote
Scientist are not really that intelligent about his design.

They're not trying to be. They're just trying to discern truth. They're not interested in scripture - Biblical or any other religious text.
Not should they be. They're just trying to understand the physical universe.
Whether there's a God or any purpose behind it, that's for religion and philosophy to sort out.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2020, 10:49:14 PM »
They're not trying to be. They're just trying to discern truth. They're not interested in scripture - Biblical or any other religious text.
Not should they be. They're just trying to understand the physical universe.
Whether there's a God or any purpose behind it, that's for religion and philosophy to sort out.

Incorrect. See these quotes: https://wiki.tfes.org/Multiverse

In this instance they are clearly saying that they have to believe in something which does not have evidence (the Multiverse) because the only other explanation is God.

- They are aware of religion
- They are interested in religion, if only to deny it
- They are proposing hypothesis' without evidence to escape a religious conclusion
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2020, 11:28:32 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop link=topic=16908.msg220110#msg220110

Incorrect. See these quotes: [url
https://wiki.tfes.org/Multiverse[/url]

In this instance they are clearly saying that they have to believe in something which does not have evidence (the Multiverse) because the only other explanation is God.

- They are aware of religion
- They are interested in religion, if only to deny it
- They are proposing hypothesis' without evidence to escape a religious conclusion

That's such an illogical argument. The idea of a multiverse is plausible. We live in a universe, hence one is known to exist. Perhaps there are more.

How do people arrive at God did it. There is no physical evidence of any god, therefore we have no reason to believe one exists. While you can use it as an explanation if you want, scientists choose not to, because there are no grounds to any supernatural entity existing. They are not denying anything.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 12:29:12 AM »
Quote from: geolguy29
The idea of a multiverse is plausible.

There is no evidence for a Multiverse. No evidence and untestable = Not Science.

Quote from: geolguy29
How do people arrive at God did it.

I didn't propose God. Those scientists did. Those scientists looked at the matter and stated that either there is a Multiverse or that the universe was divinely created. They are proposing something without evidence to escape a religious conclusion.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 08:01:07 AM »
They're not trying to be. They're just trying to discern truth. They're not interested in scripture - Biblical or any other religious text.
Not should they be. They're just trying to understand the physical universe.
Whether there's a God or any purpose behind it, that's for religion and philosophy to sort out.

Incorrect. See these quotes: https://wiki.tfes.org/Multiverse

In this instance they are clearly saying that they have to believe in something which does not have evidence (the Multiverse) because the only other explanation is God.

- They are aware of religion
- They are interested in religion, if only to deny it
- They are proposing hypothesis' without evidence to escape a religious conclusion
Literally the first quote says at the end

Quote
The idea is controversial. Critics say it doesn’t even qualify as a scientific theory because the existence of other universes cannot be proved or disproved

There is no "they". Individual scientists may have an anti-religion or anti-God agenda. But science as a discipline is about the physical world, things we can measure and test.
All the quotes in this area are speculative, there is no experiment you can do to determine whether we live in one of many universes or one universe which is finely tuned for life by a God (or by dumb luck). So yeah, scientists may be prone to speculate about these things but while they can make a hypothesis about these things - as we all can - there is no way of testing the hypothesis so it's not going to form part of a scientific theory.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 08:38:17 AM »
Could I please ask that we stick to the subject of geology here? The meta-discussion on science is interesting, but probably belongs in S&AS.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 09:05:00 AM »
Agreed, it would be nice to talk about the topic that was mentioned.

As for J-man, where I have said there 'must be something' it is recognising that something must cause what we observe. Like if I came home and a window was broken, I can assume something broke it. What I wasn't doing was claiming that the theories of how it occurs are indisputable. Albeit if you took the time to read about the theories, they are indeed quite strongly supported.

But let's not get into that, or talk about scientific theory. I wanted to talk about the logical explanations and causes for the phenomena that we observe.

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 12:22:17 PM »
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said - good thread!

"The fact we can see pole reversals in the changing direction of magnetic minerals in the Earth alternating, outward of constructive plate boundaries."

This is complete, and utter fiction.  Much like tectonics, geodynamo, pangea, ice bridge, etc - just more of mankind's profound stupidity.  "Look, the continents are all pieces of a puzzle floating in a bathtub! I'm a scientist!".  Learning about the origins of these "theories" is invaluable.  The history of science is woefully taught, and it is very useful to determine the actual science from the pseudoscience mythology masquerading as it.  Also learning the definition of science, and the scientific method - not the definitions we most all learned initially, which were largely incorrect.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 12:24:23 PM by jack44556677 »

Re: Geology on a flat earth
« Reply #12 on: Today at 02:17:25 PM »
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said - good thread!

"The fact we can see pole reversals in the changing direction of magnetic minerals in the Earth alternating, outward of constructive plate boundaries."

This is complete, and utter fiction.  Much like tectonics, geodynamo, pangea, ice bridge, etc - just more of mankind's profound stupidity.  "Look, the continents are all pieces of a puzzle floating in a bathtub! I'm a scientist!".  Learning about the origins of these "theories" is invaluable.  The history of science is woefully taught, and it is very useful to determine the actual science from the pseudoscience mythology masquerading as it.  Also learning the definition of science, and the scientific method - not the definitions we most all learned initially, which were largely incorrect.

I understand that flat earthers don't believe in the foundation of a lot of our geological understanding, despite its strongly supported evidence and all theories being scrutinised by the scientific community. The point of the thread was to talk about observations that are undeniable. These observations need to be able to fit within an Earth model, and I was challenging the ability for the flat earth model to support it.

My experience is that lots of flat earthers are afraid to talk about geology because it is actually a very well understood branch of science that can tell us a lot about the history of the Earth. I can look at a cliff face and tell you a lot about the geological history of that area.