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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Debunking the debunkers
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2020, 01:43:35 PM »
Would you disagree with this assessment Pete?
Indeed. I would argue that most of those claims are not "common". Indeed, they are deliberately cherry-picked to paint a false image of FET. On top of that, due to their purposeful misattribution, those who actually made the claims don't get to see the questions and discussion around it, since most of it ends up going our way. Or, at least, that's what used to happen before the author's social media suicide. Nowadays the site is largely forgotten outside of places like metabunk.

Could you point out one in particular from the website you think is a purposeful strawman that no flat earther has claimed? Just so I can get an idea.
I've only just gone through the first 10 topics and described most of them as strawmen or otherwise malicious.
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Offline JSS

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Re: Debunking the debunkers
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2020, 01:47:27 PM »
You are using the "No True Scotsman" argument here.  Saying that anyone who said such a thing couldn't be a real Flat Earther.
No, I am not. Please feel free to quote me saying this about this specific subject. What I did say is that falling for a magic trick is not exclusively the domain of FE'ers, and that you would be unhappy if I found some idiot and attributed him to all RE'ers.

You said...

I'm sure you can find some idiot who claimed that, but it should not be attributable to the entire community.

That's claiming we can dismiss this guy because he doesn't represent "the entire community" which is what the Scotsman argument is. 

The claim was that this is a strawman argument because no Flat Earther said it, I pointed out where a Flat Earther did indeed say it, and your retort is that he doesn't represent Flat Earthers? That's saying he's not a Flat Earther because of what he said.

How is this a strawman? I can find countless discussions about the Moon landings being a hoax just on this site.
This is neither the claim made, nor the claim being disputed. I already quoted the specific claim and my objection to it. I don't know how I could answer your question other than by suggesting you read my reply.

Agree do disagree then.

Not a strawman at all, this is an argument I've seen. Here is one example.
Shifter is a self-declared troll. You also already provided evidence of us acknowledging the opposite. If you're going to argue in bad faith, I'm going to leave you to your own thoughts.

Again, you're claiming this isn't valid because Shifter is no true Flat Earther.  I could find others too, I just quoted up the first one I ran into. I've talked with him quite a bit, and you can be a troll AND a Flat Earther, and I honestly belive he is both.

It seems quite valid that they debunk it as people ARE talking about it.
It would seem sensible to flag the satirical claim as satirical, not to attribute it to the FE community at large and address as a serious position, or to spread it further (again, note that his website is the biggest source of that claim). This is an attempt at character assassination, and one which backfired horrendously (ask the author about that one, he'll love to tell you all about it!)

I'm still unsure what satire you are referencing here, since you have not provided a link.

There are people who wonder this, and I agree it's a silly argument.

https://www.quora.com/If-the-Earth-is-an-oblate-spheroid-why-do-we-not-have-photos-of-it-looking-this-way
Quora? Really? What are you hoping to achieve by showing us a person most likely to be an RE'er asking a question that I suggest is not FE-specific?

Again, you are claiming this one is invalid because they are not a true Flat Earther.  As I pointed out, the debunking site is for misconceptions, and anyone can have these, FLat Earther or Round Earther or Undecided Earther.  The fact is people ARE asking questions about it, so why can't he address them?

What's wrong with using Quora as an example of what kind of questions people ask? It's a site specifically for asking questions.

Flat Earthers do indeed dismiss such things
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I just finished explaining the FE position, and your response is "nuh uh". I have no way of responding.

You are not the Flat Earth community, you can't say what is or isn't a "FE position" especially when you have others on this site saying those things. The Flat Earth community is very wide and varied, and has all kinds of views you agree with, and plenty that you don't. You can not be the gatekeeper for all of Flat Earth.

Tom for instance claims that n-body simulations are not possible or accurate.
Entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand. Tom points out that n-body simulations are not the same as a complete mathematical model. This has absolutely nothing to do with RE'ers willingness to substitute simulations in place of observation.

We can agree to disagree on this one.

But again, remember the title of the site.  "Debunking Flat Earth Misconceptions"

This includes both "true" Flat Earther arguments as well as people who are just confused or curious or don't understand something.
Disgusting revisionism. Don't forget that we're discussing very specific claims, with very specific wordings behind them. I have quoted them all for you. There is no room for creative interpretation there.

What we are discussing, is if this debunking site is debunking real questions and arguments or is strawmanning.

I think it's quite valid to point out that correcting what people ask as well as what they claim is not strawmanning. He's answering questions real people are asking.

It looks to me like most of these are valid.
I'm extremely disappointed in you. You have ignored evidence and pretended not to understand simple sentences, purely to satisfy your prejudice. Perhaps I was wrong to give you another chance.

I will take this as an official moderator warning to end my involvement in this thread, so this will be my last post on this subject.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Debunking the debunkers
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2020, 01:48:14 PM »
That's claiming we can dismiss this guy because he doesn't represent "the entire community" which is what the Scotsman argument is.
If you're going to lie about what I said, then we're done here. You can't have a discussion with someone who changes your argument at will. The rest of your post is going unread.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 01:56:25 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Debunking the debunkers
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2020, 02:36:38 PM »
I have no idea who any of these people are.

So what? Your assertion was that FE-ers were not claiming this stuff. They are. That you don't know them personally or by reputation is irrelevant. You've been shown a number of FE-ers who are claiming this stuff.
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Debunking the debunkers
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2020, 02:38:56 PM »
So what?
If you had simply carried on reading my reply, you'd have found out that I accepted your claim. Christ on a bike, Tumeni.
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