Sorry if this is already answered in the FAQ.

What is the shortest route from Argentina to southern Australia? Isn't this a simple test of the Flat Earth vs. the "round" earth theory?

Doesn't the Flat Earth shortest route go north from Argentina across the western Atlantic and Canada and North Pole and Siberia and China?

Whereas the "round" earth shortest route goes west from Argentina across the south Pacific?

Doesn't the Flat Earth map -- https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Maps#Monopole_Models -- show the shortest route to be north across Canada etc.? which obviously is not the shortest route anyone would choose? I.e., wouldn't even a Flat-Earther choose the route west across the Pacific rather than north across Canada?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 10:11:22 AM by Lumpenproletariat »

Offline edby

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Re: from Buenos Aires to Melbourne
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 09:52:26 AM »
That issue is discussed on the wiki, which I link https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis without comment.

Theories include winds, mistakes about flight times.

Couldn't Flat-Earth be confirmed or disproved by this simple test?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 05:55:17 AM »
Quote
That issue is discussed on the wiki, which I link https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis without comment. Theories include winds, mistakes about flight times.

That does not answer my question.

But I'll clarify: Am I interpreting the Flat Earth map and theory correctly that it says the shortest route would be north from Argentina across North America and across the North Pole and across Siberia and China? That's what the map seems to show, but is that correct? i.e., is that what FES map/theory is saying?

In other words, FES claims you get there most directly by going that direction rather than west across the S. Pacific? Is that what FES claims?

And wouldn't that be a simple test to perform, with one flight going north and another going west, to see how long it takes? both going the same speed? and if the flight going west gets there sooner, that would disprove the FE, would it not?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 06:02:03 AM by Lumpenproletariat »

Offline iamcpc

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Doesn't the Flat Earth shortest route go north from Argentina across the western Atlantic and Canada and North Pole and Siberia and China?

Whereas the "round" earth shortest route goes west from Argentina across the south Pacific?

Doesn't the Flat Earth map -- https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Maps#Monopole_Models -- show the shortest route to be north across Canada etc.? which obviously is not the shortest route anyone would choose? I.e., wouldn't even a Flat-Earther choose the route west across the Pacific rather than north across Canada?


The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:



https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16219.msg217416#msg217416
Sometimes flight paths support one FE model and sometimes they support another FE model or even the RE model when flying from point A to point B



https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2046469#msg2046469

 "This flight has never been existed."


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2044714#msg2044714
"Don't trust  aircraft companies such as Qantas and Latam by their claims about flight times. These are liars."


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2045126#msg2045126
"If you find a video show full flight of a travel between Chile and Australia, then there will be a possiblity that path it exist."
-These flights only exist if you can produce a full video of the entire flight.



https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2045413#msg2045413
-flying from Santiago, Chile to Sydney Australia in about 14 hours is impossible


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121615#msg121615
-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 180 degrees the earth is flat.
-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 179.99984 degrees the earth is slightly concave.



https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121996#msg121996
-Distances between two cities which are far apart is unknown


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122030#msg122030
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122441#msg122441
-Flight GPS systems are inaccurate


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122359#msg122359
-GPS systems are based on a round earth therefore will give measurements/distances which support a round earth.
-Aircraft are using instruments which assume round earth coordinates which will support a round earth.
-There is no flat earth map.
-The difference in flight time is based off of flight speed which has yet to be proven.
-The airplane speed and range is based off round systems therefore will give speeds and ranges which support a round earth


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122364#msg122364
-plane speed measurements are unreliable

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122369#msg122369
-there are no flat earth flight programs, systems, GPS etc because the flat earth aircraft navigation fund is nonexistent.


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122410#msg122410
-Triangulation as a measurement of distance can be inaccurate because the "known" locations used for triangulation are based on a round earth system


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122411#msg122411
-there are almost an infinite number of continental configurations (If a flight disproves flat earth continental configuration 23985729387592873 you then need to test continental configuration 23985729387592874).
-Groundspeed measurement instruments use a round earth coordinate system therefore will give results which support a round earth


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122423#msg122423
-proof is needed that mile measurements on a highway are accurate

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122433#msg122433
-Google maps is based on a round earth coordinate system

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122655#msg122655
-any navigation system based on longitude and latitude is a round earth navigation system (which is most likely used in all navigation systems)

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122664#msg122664
-any map, navigation, or measurement system which uses Latitude and Longitude in any way is inaccurate

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122672#msg122672
-That's not the map of the earth (a variant of there is no map of the earth)

Quote
The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16219.msg217416#msg217416
Sometimes flight paths support one FE model and sometimes they support another FE model or even the RE model when flying from point A to point B

The only "model" which matters is the Flat Earth map. Is that map for real or not? If it's serious, then the question is: Which direction would the route be, from Argentina? Would it not be north across Canada and the North Pole, and then across China to reach Australia? And couldn't that easily be tested by just having one plane take that route and another take the route West from Argentina across the Pacific? Would this not be a legitimate test of that Flat Earth map?

Or if that's not the real Flat Earth map, then where is the real Flat Earth map? If there is none, then the Flat Earth theory is refuted, because there MUST BE A MAP showing the Flat Earth if the earth really is flat.

Quote
The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2046469#msg2046469

 "This flight has never been existed."

That doesn't respond to the question. It doesn't matter if the "flight" exists or not. The two locations do exist and it's possible to travel from one to the other.

So, if that Flat Earth map is correct, doesn't it mean that the Flat Earth shortest route would be north from Argentina across Canada and the North Pole and then across China?

If no one is willing to answer this question, then everyone here agrees that the Earth is NOT flat, and this website is not serious, but is a joke.

Or, if that Flat Earth map is incorrect, then why don't they take it down and replace it with the REAL FLAT EARTH MAP? Or, if there is no Flat Earth map, then the Flat Earth theory is refuted, because there MUST be such a map in order for the Flat Earth theory to be correct.


Quote
The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2044714#msg2044714
"Don't trust  aircraft companies such as Qantas and Latam by their claims about flight times. These are liars."

This doesn't answer the question. It's not about claims by any aircraft company. Or who the liars are.

The question is about the Flat Earth map and about the shortest route from Argentina to Australia. Doesn't the published Flat Earth map have the shortest route being northward from Argentina rather than westward across the Pacific Ocean? Yes or no?

If there is no serious answer to this, then it means this website is only a joke, and those posting it know the earth is "round" rather than flat.

Quote
The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2045126#msg2045126
"If you find a video show full flight of a travel between Chile and Australia, then there will be a possibility that path it exist."
-These flights only exist if you can produce a full video of the entire flight.

That doesn't answer anything. We don't need any video of a flight. Such a flight is possible, between any 2 points, whether the flight is done or not, or whether or not it's recorded.

The question is whether the shortest route would be north from Argentina (or Chile) across Canada, based on the Flat Earth map. Is there an answer to this or not? We don't need any video of the flight to just answer that question.

The remaining "responses" to the question, in the list noted above, are not responsive to this question. E.g., saying there is no Flat Earth map, or no map Flat-Earthers all agree on. If that's the answer, then it just means the FET is refuted, because the only legitimate map is one based on the "round" earth theory, and there can be no Flat Earth Theory without a map showing the Flat Earth and the shortest route between any 2 points.

This whole website is really just a joke -- right? You don't give serious answers to anything. You're just doing this for fun-and-games.

Offline iamcpc

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That doesn't answer anything. We don't need any video of a flight. Such a flight is possible, between any 2 points, whether the flight is done or not, or whether or not it's recorded.




I gave liked 20-30 different rebuttals to the following statement:  "Known flight paths and flight times weaken the different FE models."



and I have given you a link to one or the rebuttals which says that flight path does not exist or it is impossible.

One of those rebuttals is something to the effect that "Flights that weaken the different FE models do not really exist" and, as an addition, "Without full unedited uncut video of the entire flight showing that it's real these flights will continue to be placed in the 'fake' category"


The remaining "responses" to the question, in the list noted above, are not responsive to this question.

I disagree. If you are going to predict the shorted distance between two points which are half a world apart then you would need some sort of a map. If the predicted flight path /time does not match the actual flight path/time then there is the claim that the continental configuration on the map that you are testing is simply incorrect and a new continental configuration needs to be tested.

The question is whether the shortest route would be north from Argentina (or Chile) across Canada, based on the Flat Earth map. Is there an answer to this or not?

There are different answers depending on the FE model that you believe in. In addition the rebuttal that sometimes flights are observed to fly different paths on the same flight suggesting that predicting the shortest path is not the correct thing to do as a plane may take a longer route (as shown in the SF/London flight path discussion linked in the responses) If a flight does not take a path predicted by one of the FE models it could be because of weather, it could be because of fuel, it could be because of air traffic.

Here's the flight on one FE model:



The black line on this model shows the shortest path on a different model:
The problem with is when you take the flight, and don't fly over the United States, we don't know if it's because:

1. The map is wrong/that is not the map of the earth
2. The plane flew a different route due to something like weather/air traffic
3. The flight which didn't fly that route is fake or didn't exist.
(insert listed rebuttal from above here)

Please keep in mind that I can't find a picture of a FE model in which Jerusalem is the center or a picture of one of the infinite flat earth models.



E.g., saying there is no Flat Earth map, or no map Flat-Earthers all agree on.

Not all people who believe the earth is not a sphere believe there is no map. There are many people who believe there is a map of the earth. Several of the links I sent you are from people who believe there is a map of the earth.



This whole website is really just a joke -- right?  You don't give serious answers to anything. You're just doing this for fun-and-games.

You have to understand that there are many different viewpoints and beliefs within the community. There is a flat circle map with a north pole center and a perimeter ice wall which I have seen rejected because the person said that Jerusalem is the center of the earth not the north pole. With so many different views and beliefs you will have a whole array of different responses.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 09:52:19 PM by iamcpc »