Offline Ronin

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Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« on: July 13, 2020, 09:12:54 AM »
It seems a flat Earth is conveniently positioned to protect one from the possibility of alien existence. Though, if you happen to promote the flat Earth on the basis of religious beliefs, you most certainly leave yourself open to extra dimensional beings (even if it is your suggestion that your extra dimensional being, god, is superior to all others).
Still, I wander how this is not a bigger topic of contention among this community... certainly you don't write off everything that is not openly captured and dissected as myth. You have suggested global and government conspiracy, in the preservation of the globe Earth... but the same could not be coordinated to protect the secret of aliens (when in fact it has been orchestrated to the extent that they make mockeries of abductions, sightings, and crop circles... with the latter being an example of the most obvious and unconvincing shills the government has ever put forth).
Also, how come no one is discussing the hollow Earth? Which can quite easily parallel many of the arguments for flat Earth. In addition, to presenting the possibility of sub-terrestrial sighting and abductions.
There are three forms of "aliens" to address (sub-terrestrial, extra-terrestrial, and extra dimensional), yet not one of them is given any real consideration. Why is that?
The mind of a true intellect should give consideration to all possibilities... I have considered cryptids, giants, Nephilim, every manner of god, simulation theory, mother-ship theory (which is the best case for a flat Earth... and not a bad one for a hollow Earth either). So what really drives you, what are you all afraid of?   

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2020, 05:55:23 PM »
Why would anybody be afraid of something for which we have exactly 0 evidence for the existence of? Even according to RET civilizations are spaced so far apart that communication is essentially impossible (like, maybe one per galaxy, according to the most recent estimate I've seen). It seems a round Earth is rather positioned well to protect one from proof of alien existence too.

For the record I'm not afraid of dragons or babadooks either.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 06:01:04 PM by Roundy »
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2020, 09:15:30 AM »
Why would anybody be afraid of something for which we have exactly 0 evidence for the existence of? Even according to RET civilizations are spaced so far apart that communication is essentially impossible (like, maybe one per galaxy, according to the most recent estimate I've seen). It seems a round Earth is rather positioned well to protect one from proof of alien existence too.

For the record I'm not afraid of dragons or babadooks either.

Interesting attempt at a deflection, at the end there. I certainly don't want to have the debate about what constitutes evidence with someone who says believe what you see for yourself... because how do I prove to you that I have seen what I have seen. So, even though I have seen aliens for myself (which again, according to flat Earthers, is the strongest evidence), I would actually refer you to any religious text... but specifically the Sumerian and Hindu histories (not just their recorded history, but their art, and their belief systems). If that is not enough for you, I also direct you to the fact that every known human culture has either believed in heavenly beings or people from the stars. But maybe that doesn't do it for you either, so try the impossible feats of architecture scattered throughout the ancient world, many of which we still wouldn't be able to reproduce today.
What I find most amusing however, are flat Earthers that dare say their believe is not based on either religion or a fear of extraterrestrials (in my opinion, the same thing)... because your suggestion, is that we exist on a magical plane of existence (where water doesn't simply vanish over the edge, because magical ice walls) or in a giant mother-ship (complete with dome). If this domed Earth is anything other than a space terrarium style habitat, built by some advanced species, then it must be magical.
How can you even imagine that your entire reality exist within such a pointless cage, what essentially amounts to an insignificant pocket universe at best and a zoo at worst.
So yes, why are you not talking about aliens... the only thing that would make a flat Earth even seem probable... if not fear.

Just to be clear, if the argument you were making was that we lived in a cosmic zoo... that argument would not be so easily dismissed. Then I could understand the reasoning behind a global conspiracy. It also does not defy physics, since any species capable of creating such a habitat, would most certainly be capable of generating artificial gravity. Really, unless you had seen it for yourself (like aliens), there would be no way of disputing that argument with any degree of certainty.
Also, in all fairness, I do not expect anyone who hasn't seen aliens, to be true believers, just as I don't expect them to believe in spirits, or magic, all of which I have witnessed first hand. I realize that I am in fact privileged, not to have to take any of these things on faith... because I have been directly exposed to them repeatedly. Which is why I don't necessarily have a problem with inner Earth aliens... being that I am already aware of stranger things, and am personally convinced that both extra-dimensional and extra-terrestrial beings exist (why not sub-terrestrial as well?). 

As far as dragons go... you should be, you should be (a little star wars humor). Personally I don't believe that dragons ever existed, at least not as they are depicted in European culture (probably dinos, stubbornly refusing to go extinct, without a little assistance). But certainly their have been many species of creature to disappear from this world without leaving a trace. More over, Chinese Dragons are another story (since they're extra-dimensional creatures, as are many other strange things... so who knows). The thing is I'm not afraid to acknowledge any possibility... as you can probably tell, i actually gave quite a lot of thought to the possibility of a flat Earth, and under what circumstances such a thing could come to be.

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2020, 10:25:08 AM »
Ronin, you're a new account here, so I'll ask politely: please try to keep personal assessments out of your posts. We are here to discuss ideas, not individuals.

If you feel the need to complain about how bad someone else's epistemology is, do so in the Angry Ranting board.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2020, 05:53:38 PM »
Why would anybody be afraid of something for which we have exactly 0 evidence for the existence of? Even according to RET civilizations are spaced so far apart that communication is essentially impossible (like, maybe one per galaxy, according to the most recent estimate I've seen). It seems a round Earth is rather positioned well to protect one from proof of alien existence too.

For the record I'm not afraid of dragons or babadooks either.

Interesting attempt at a deflection, at the end there. I certainly don't want to have the debate about what constitutes evidence with someone who says believe what you see for yourself... because how do I prove to you that I have seen what I have seen. So, even though I have seen aliens for myself (which again, according to flat Earthers, is the strongest evidence), I would actually refer you to any religious text... but specifically the Sumerian and Hindu histories (not just their recorded history, but their art, and their belief systems). If that is not enough for you, I also direct you to the fact that every known human culture has either believed in heavenly beings or people from the stars. But maybe that doesn't do it for you either, so try the impossible feats of architecture scattered throughout the ancient world, many of which we still wouldn't be able to reproduce today.
What I find most amusing however, are flat Earthers that dare say their believe is not based on either religion or a fear of extraterrestrials (in my opinion, the same thing)... because your suggestion, is that we exist on a magical plane of existence (where water doesn't simply vanish over the edge, because magical ice walls) or in a giant mother-ship (complete with dome). If this domed Earth is anything other than a space terrarium style habitat, built by some advanced species, then it must be magical.
How can you even imagine that your entire reality exist within such a pointless cage, what essentially amounts to an insignificant pocket universe at best and a zoo at worst.
So yes, why are you not talking about aliens... the only thing that would make a flat Earth even seem probable... if not fear.

Just to be clear, if the argument you were making was that we lived in a cosmic zoo... that argument would not be so easily dismissed. Then I could understand the reasoning behind a global conspiracy. It also does not defy physics, since any species capable of creating such a habitat, would most certainly be capable of generating artificial gravity. Really, unless you had seen it for yourself (like aliens), there would be no way of disputing that argument with any degree of certainty.
Also, in all fairness, I do not expect anyone who hasn't seen aliens, to be true believers, just as I don't expect them to believe in spirits, or magic, all of which I have witnessed first hand. I realize that I am in fact privileged, not to have to take any of these things on faith... because I have been directly exposed to them repeatedly. Which is why I don't necessarily have a problem with inner Earth aliens... being that I am already aware of stranger things, and am personally convinced that both extra-dimensional and extra-terrestrial beings exist (why not sub-terrestrial as well?). 

As far as dragons go... you should be, you should be (a little star wars humor). Personally I don't believe that dragons ever existed, at least not as they are depicted in European culture (probably dinos, stubbornly refusing to go extinct, without a little assistance). But certainly their have been many species of creature to disappear from this world without leaving a trace. More over, Chinese Dragons are another story (since they're extra-dimensional creatures, as are many other strange things... so who knows). The thing is I'm not afraid to acknowledge any possibility... as you can probably tell, i actually gave quite a lot of thought to the possibility of a flat Earth, and under what circumstances such a thing could come to be.

I'm not afraid to acknowledge possibility either. You seem to be assuming that I blindly believe in some God and that that has something to do with my belief in a flat Earth but that is not the case. I don't completely write off the possibility of the existence of God, but He actually falls under the same umbrella as aliens in my belief system (which is to say, if there's ever any actual evidence of His existence, I will change my opinion that there's no real reason to believe in Him).

So you can see, a great deal of what you just posted was a waste, because it assumed something about me that is not the case.

So, anyway. Your entire reason for posting this seemed to be your opinion that Flat Earth belief somehow shields us from having to face the possible existence of aliens. You seem to think it's "uniquely positioned" to allow that.

But again, if there's approximately one civilization per galaxy, as RET currently posits, it effectively puts a round Earth in a position to not have to face the possibility of the existence of aliens, too, so you see there's nothing unique about FE's position on this matter, as it's mirrored in RE too, albeit in a different way. Pointing out why you're wrong about something is not a deflection, it's an attempt to help you understand why you were wrong.

Take it up with scientists who are currently throwing out these estimates if you have a problem with it.

Also, you mention extradimensional beings as a possible explanation for aliens. There's nothing to preclude this possibility in FE; it is just as much science fiction in either model (as is contact with extraplanetary aliens, really, as far as the hard science of the matter goes). So there you go!

Finally, I would never try to shame you for not believing the Earth is flat, despite that being my belief. So don't try to shame me for not blindly accepting your claim that you've interacted with aliens. It's just silly. Being open to all possibilities doesn't equate to naively believing everything we are told.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2020, 04:42:25 PM »
I've been watching for aliens and UFOs but never saw a thing. Despite what I learned growing up with Star Trek, our preliminary evidence is that there are not hundreds of civilizations within 10s of thousands of light years. The more we learn, the more I think the cosmos is an autoclave that is completely sterile.

Fear of aliens is actually an RE thing. Some people think we should mask signs of our civilization, lest we attract some colonialist to plunder our world and give us sexually transmitted diseases. But the truth is that any alien with the technology to travel to earth would have no use for anything on earth.

Some sci-fi scenarios have the aliens coming to take our minerals and water but asteroids and comets have it all in small manageable portions. They could just grab one and drag it home.

Some people think the aliens are here to eat our flesh but even our simple technology has produced 'Beyond Meat.' Certainly, an advanced race would have 'Boca Human' protein without all the toxins that real humans eat.

In one movie, the aliens are here to take human woman. Hot babes are one of the few resources that earth may have to themselves so I could see them coming for our women. But now, Japan has these hi-tech sex-robots that are smoking hot, I'm sure alien robochicks are way more advanced.

Some think the aliens might be coming to steal human consciousness itself but since the rise of Trump, I doubt it.
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 09:59:31 AM »
Yes, globe Earthers, either deny the existence of aliens, or the possibility of the being capable of visiting Earth, or buy into the Scifi fear mongering, or believe that aliens are here to save us, or believe in the alien god theory (even going as far as to say aliens seeded the Earth), but at least they have to address the possibilities in some way. Flat Earthers would not even need to consider aliens (much less be afraid of them)... Because a flat Earth is necessarily a protected environment.
Ironically, that environment would have to be created by some kind of creator... so either a god or an advanced alien species, capable of creating an incomprehensibly advanced habitat (at which point it must certainly be easier to terraform a planet), which would put an fish tank or terrarium to shame... the scale of such a technological feat might even be enough to qualify such a species as gods.
For this reason, it really boggles my mind that any Flat Earther, would honestly sit here and say they don't believe in god or aliens... because what other explanation can there be for such an Earth... if not not by celestial magic, then by unfathomable technology, must such a place be created. if you are not lying to my face when you say otherwise, then you either have never asked yourself how this Flat Earth could even come to be, or you are simply lying to yourself (and therefore ignoring the only possibilities you know to exist). But please, offer up another scenario, because I'm dying to here it. I mean you are so eager to talk about globe conspiracies, this sounds a lot like conspiracy territory to me.

Also, while you are explaining things... explain meteor impacts. Because, if you say the firmament is falling apart, then we must be talking aliens... because no way god's creation would just fall apart. So, if aliens, did they just abandon us (did we become boring or did they die off)? because why aren't they doing maintenance? What happens when the structure is finally compromised (do we all just die)? Because then we might want to get Nasa or somebody to start work on repairing it (if we are on our own now).

What I'm saying, is there are a lot more problems with this flat Earth thing than physics. So, who's looking into that? 

Offline Ronin

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2020, 10:27:39 AM »
Also it occurs to me that perhaps my question was not clear. My question was not... do flat Earthers fear aliens (as in, live in fear of). but rather... is n't flat Earth a convenient belief, for ignoring the question entirely. Which I think, is exactly what you have been saying (why would you be afraid of something that doesn't make any sense from your point of view... or as I would like to say, "exactly y point").

To ensure further clarity. Addressing the issue of whether Globe Earthers are afraid of aliens... I would say they are probably as afraid of aliens as people are afraid of A.I.
Which is to say, they either believe they will destroy us or save us (as I have mentioned). in the case of A.I. I for one cannot wait till they take over this planet and save us from ourselves. in the case of aliens, I for one think if they meant to destroy us we would be dead already... so I also can't wait for them to show themselves and snap us out of our delusions of being unique in all the universe (we will finally either start acting like adults and get our shit together, or go completely mad and destroy ourselves, when it happens).
Also, I'm fairly certain that anyone who denies the existence of aliens is afraid of them, whether or not they acknowledge it... globe or flat Earth be damned. I cannot even conceive of a reason we would be the only life forms in existence... existence is a big place, and what ever created it is more powerful than we can conceive (making billions of worlds probably takes no more effort than making one, it likely all happened simultaneously, since the creator of reality is certainly not bound by time and space... what with omnipresence and omnipotence, and you know, being the creator of space and time).
 

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2020, 12:06:44 PM »
I mean if god exists he's technically an extraterrestrial.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Offline Ronin

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Re: Are Flat Earther's Afraid of Aliens?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2020, 10:38:09 PM »
By definition, the god we think of as the biblical creator, would in fact be an extra-dimensional being. However, most other gods straddle the line, and could be either or (extra terrestrial or extra dimensional... perhaps even inter-dimensional, having started in terrestrial reality and ascended to a higher plain). But Yahweh, straight up identifies as extra-dimensional, by stating that he created the archangels (or jinn borne of fire) to serve as the hands of god... in contrast to the Elohim (angels of light), of which he is their "king".

But my question remains. If this flat Earth thing is not about fear (be it protecting one's faith or ignoring the existence of aliens... or reduced to its most simplistically pointed form, the fear of becoming insignificant in the greater scope of things), then what is it about?
What does a flat Earth gain us (if the globe is a conspiracy, then there needs to be a reason for such measures... which is why any reasonable person would assume this is about religion or its adjacent issues)? I can see what it gains those who wish to preserve their own importance, without having to actually do something important, but I don't see what it achieves for anyone else.

The globe Earth, gets us advances in science, space travel, the potential of becoming an inter stellar species, the ability to discover things which only exist outside the boundaries of this world. While the flat Earth does none of these things... or really anything of value that I can discern.
Does the government hide things from us? I would imagine they absolutely do... like aliens, for example. If they know about them now, or if they learn about them in the future, they will most definitely want to control that knowledge and fear for what might come of it. Hell, if they had a leg to stand on, and they may be the real people behind this, they might even try to convince us that the Earth is flat... just to keep us from digging into any alien related topics. But I have no ideal why they would want to go through the trouble of hiding a flat Earth, because it gains them nothing (they spend far more money on war and black projects, than they will ever spend on space... so, i'm going to dismiss money laundering, because that is not a rational way to mis appropriate money. The government is better than that, at misappropriating funds, they are basically experts at it).