#### omikun

• 2
« on: June 16, 2020, 01:30:17 AM »
Hey guys, I am not a flat earther but I think this model is really compelling to think about. Coming from an engineering background I want play with this model and generate some testable predictions.

According to the wiki, the sun casts a spot light down on earth. That means at sunset, sun light is still coming down at an angle and can never be horizontal. If this is true, the sun should disappear before it gets to the horizon. Additionally, the rate at which the sun traverses across the sky would vary given a constant speed. Imagine a car passing by you, it slowly approaches then moves very fast by and slowly recedes. The sun, however, glides at a constant rate. Also the higher you are, the sooner you will see sunset.

However, this is the opposite of what we see at sunset. You can see skyscrapers lit at the top while the bottom is in shadow. You can see a dark shadow rising out of the earth after sunset (google earth's shadow or the belt of venus). The angle of this shadow indicates the sun is below the horizon. You see the sky slowly fade to dark after sunset because the sun is still lighting the sky, which contradicts the spot light model.

You can even measure the angle of the sun yourself during the next sunset with a pen in front of a sheet of paper (it'll be horizontal at sunset if you're on a beach on the west coast).

But ok, we can talk back and forth about some of these stuff (atmospheric effects) and more and more of it would be subject to interpretation. So instead of that, let's talk math! Let's take the flat earth model flesh it out.

• How high is the sun in a flat earth model? Find the angle at noon, and how far away is the spot on earth where the sun 90 degrees up, then do a simple trig: height = sin(theta) * dist_to_spot_where_sun_is_90_up

Here's my data: I live 37.44 degrees latitude north. My view of the sun at noon today is 75degrees above the horizon. The sun is directly overhead at 23.32 degrees latitude north, which is 975 miles south of me. So sin(75/180) * 945 is 394 miles.

• What is the angle of the cone produced by the sun? What does the flat earth model predict? Let's do some math!

The angle is tan(height/distance). We got height from above. What about distance? How wide is the day portion of earth? The equator is 7,900 miles, half the earth is day and half night, so 3950 miles. tan(394/3950) = .1radians, which is 18 degrees. Is that what you get at sunset?

• If you do measure 0 at sunset, then why isn't all of earth always lit?
• If the sun is a spotlight, why is the sun still a circle at sunset? Is this physically possible? If you have a desk lamp or any lights with lamp shades, try to create one that resembles the sun. I don't imagine you can, but I would love to be proven wrong!
• How high is the moon in a flat earth model? Repeat calculation. (Hint, it's the same height as the sun)
• How can the sun light up a full moon?
• How does the sun light up the moon at all if it only shines down?
• Let's say the sun can light the moon some how. Test the phases of the moon with both models. Go out and find the moon today, locate where it is, how high it is, locate the sun, and its elevation using both round and flat earth models. Do you get the same phase of the moon?

For example, let's say the moon is directly overhead at sunset. What would the moon look like in both models? What does it look like in real life?

In real life, you will see half the moon is lit with a vertical split between light and shadow. This matches a heliocentric model. In a flat earth where both the sun and moon are at the same height, you will see more than half the moon is lit. Try it out by putting a ball and light on a circle with the ball (being the moon) at twelve o'clock and the light (sun) at three o'clock.

• What causes the sun and moon to move around in a circle?

This has been really fun for me and I hope you will try these exercises at home. I would love to get your feedback as well and if you think I have messed anything up, please let me know.

Thanks!

#### Jay Seneca

• 79
##### Re: Questions about the sun
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2020, 05:28:14 PM »
Hey guys, I am not a flat earther but I think this model is really compelling to think about. Coming from an engineering background I want play with this model and generate some testable predictions.

According to the wiki, the sun casts a spot light down on earth. That means at sunset, sun light is still coming down at an angle and can never be horizontal. If this is true, the sun should disappear before it gets to the horizon. Additionally, the rate at which the sun traverses across the sky would vary given a constant speed. Imagine a car passing by you, it slowly approaches then moves very fast by and slowly recedes. The sun, however, glides at a constant rate. Also the higher you are, the sooner you will see sunset.

However, this is the opposite of what we see at sunset. You can see skyscrapers lit at the top while the bottom is in shadow. You can see a dark shadow rising out of the earth after sunset (google earth's shadow or the belt of venus). The angle of this shadow indicates the sun is below the horizon. You see the sky slowly fade to dark after sunset because the sun is still lighting the sky, which contradicts the spot light model.

You can even measure the angle of the sun yourself during the next sunset with a pen in front of a sheet of paper (it'll be horizontal at sunset if you're on a beach on the west coast).

But ok, we can talk back and forth about some of these stuff (atmospheric effects) and more and more of it would be subject to interpretation. So instead of that, let's talk math! Let's take the flat earth model flesh it out.

• How high is the sun in a flat earth model? Find the angle at noon, and how far away is the spot on earth where the sun 90 degrees up, then do a simple trig: height = sin(theta) * dist_to_spot_where_sun_is_90_up

Here's my data: I live 37.44 degrees latitude north. My view of the sun at noon today is 75degrees above the horizon. The sun is directly overhead at 23.32 degrees latitude north, which is 975 miles south of me. So sin(75/180) * 945 is 394 miles.

• What is the angle of the cone produced by the sun? What does the flat earth model predict? Let's do some math!

The angle is tan(height/distance). We got height from above. What about distance? How wide is the day portion of earth? The equator is 7,900 miles, half the earth is day and half night, so 3950 miles. tan(394/3950) = .1radians, which is 18 degrees. Is that what you get at sunset?

• If you do measure 0 at sunset, then why isn't all of earth always lit?
• If the sun is a spotlight, why is the sun still a circle at sunset? Is this physically possible? If you have a desk lamp or any lights with lamp shades, try to create one that resembles the sun. I don't imagine you can, but I would love to be proven wrong!
• How high is the moon in a flat earth model? Repeat calculation. (Hint, it's the same height as the sun)
• How can the sun light up a full moon?
• How does the sun light up the moon at all if it only shines down?
• Let's say the sun can light the moon some how. Test the phases of the moon with both models. Go out and find the moon today, locate where it is, how high it is, locate the sun, and its elevation using both round and flat earth models. Do you get the same phase of the moon?

For example, let's say the moon is directly overhead at sunset. What would the moon look like in both models? What does it look like in real life?

In real life, you will see half the moon is lit with a vertical split between light and shadow. This matches a heliocentric model. In a flat earth where both the sun and moon are at the same height, you will see more than half the moon is lit. Try it out by putting a ball and light on a circle with the ball (being the moon) at twelve o'clock and the light (sun) at three o'clock.

• What causes the sun and moon to move around in a circle?

This has been really fun for me and I hope you will try these exercises at home. I would love to get your feedback as well and if you think I have messed anything up, please let me know.

Thanks!

I may be alone on this belief, but after some self testing I come to the conclusion that the Sun we see is some type of reflection. Or something like refraction through glass. The Real sun sits above the dome.  So when you see the Sun at 9a.m. you see a reflection on the dome and the real Sun is further East and at a higher altitude. Which actually puts it lower in our sky from your point of view at 9a.m.