*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« on: May 02, 2020, 06:17:03 PM »
What kind of a conspiracy website is this?

I was patiently waiting for someone else to broach the delicate subject of the US using the Covid distraction to casually mention that there are aliens and release some footage of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?
Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?
Have we all just accepted aliens a long time ago and this is just run of the mill alien business?
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2020, 07:45:00 PM »
US using the Covid distraction to casually mention that there are aliens and release some footage of them.
They haven't done that. They've admitted that at times they've seen they can't identify.

Quote
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what these things might be if not aliens?

Honestly, no. But I am pretty convinced they are not aliens.

Quote
Does anyone care that aliens seem to be visiting at will?

I would care if they were, but they are not.
I tell you why they're not. You know how mediums claim to "hear from the dead". Well they don't hear very clearly. Why are they so vague? Can't they just tell the medium some really specific information about their living loved ones which would prove it all beyond doubt? Same with ghosts, why do they always appear at night in "spooky" houses? Why never clearly during the day? And why when "aliens" abduct people is it always some farmer in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere? Why aren't these craft every seen clearly in the day? If they're coming and going as they please then you'd think in the era of smartphones we'd have photos of them everywhere.

There might well be aliens out there. In a universe this size it's perfectly feasible. But the distances between stars are unimaginable and given we think the speed of light is a universal speed limit, it doesn't seem feasible that we could either contact or visit each other.
What is the FE take on aliens anyway? Where are they from? Isn't the FE universe quite smal?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2020, 10:10:26 PM »
I would care if they were, but they are not.
I tell you why they're not. You know how mediums claim to "hear from the dead". Well they don't hear very clearly. Why are they so vague? Can't they just tell the medium some really specific information about their living loved ones which would prove it all beyond doubt? Same with ghosts, why do they always appear at night in "spooky" houses? Why never clearly during the day? And why when "aliens" abduct people is it always some farmer in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere? Why aren't these craft every seen clearly in the day? If they're coming and going as they please then you'd think in the era of smartphones we'd have photos of them everywhere.
This is like saying "people over 8 feet tall don't exist". Why don't you ever see them in your town? Why are they only on TV? Surely its just green screen trickery, right? Why isn't there one in my local zoo? Why can't i meet a giant? ... and the answer is ... people over 8 feet tall are extremely rare. As are alien visits. You're never likely to see one yourself. We seem to get a sightings very rarely. The last two official sightings were in 2010 and in 2014. That's not very often for one of the 7 billion people on earth to see one.

What is the FE take on aliens anyway? Where are they from? Isn't the FE universe quite smal?
Mmmm. Ok, well as usual take the disclaimer that my views to do not represent the society and different FErs have different models ... but I would suspect the majority of FErs who subscribe to some of the more common models are going to say no aliens. Not just no aliens visiting earth, but also no aliens at all anywhere.

You are correct. The universe is much smaller and at the centre of that universe is the earth. Earth is a flat planet, one of a kind and that flatness lends itself to promoting life on earth. With no other flat planets, there can't be life anywhere else.

When you sprinkle a little religion into that, God creates the earth in FE as a very special place. God isn't making alien races. The earth is the be all and end all. The universe was built around it. Creatures that live outside of the dome are referred to as angels and they don't need spaceships to travel around as they please.

I would guess aliens are highly incompatible with most models of a flat earth. And so there you finally have your answer. You want to know what evidence I will accept to believe earth must be round? Prove to me that aliens exist and leave me with an existential crisis.
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 879
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2020, 10:23:04 PM »
Yea I'm of the opinion that UFO's are just that. If you identify them as aliens then they wouldn't be UFO's. Personally think there's always an explanation for these things even if we don't know what that is, and I am almost certain that explanation isn't aliens from space.

Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one but I would imagine most religious views of aliens is that they don't exist which is ironic because wouldn't god kinda be extraterrestrial? :P
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2020, 10:49:22 PM »
Personally think there's always an explanation for these things even if we don't know what that is,
And yet you won't accept a flat earth if we can't provide an explanation. Interesting double standard. It is almost as if you are just seeking confirmation bias as you go from idea to idea.

Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one
Behold ... a model of an aircraft.

This model isn't very good. It doesn't even begin to explain to me how something heavier than the air can fly. Just because this model isn't very good, that doesn't mean that a) aircraft can't fly or b) that its not a valid model. FE is the same. Some of the models are quite good. Some are a complete dog's dinner. It doesn't mean the earth isn't flat though.


but I would imagine most religious views of aliens is that they don't exist which is ironic because wouldn't god kinda be extraterrestrial? :P
God is not alien to us. We know all about Him because He used to talk to extremely reliable witnesses thousands of years ago. 
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline JSS

  • *
  • Posts: 463
  • Math is math!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2020, 11:10:13 PM »
Also kinda jars me when anyone says "flat earth model" as if there is one
Behold ... a model of an aircraft.

This model isn't very good. It doesn't even begin to explain to me how something heavier than the air can fly. Just because this model isn't very good, that doesn't mean that a) aircraft can't fly or b) that its not a valid model. FE is the same. Some of the models are quite good. Some are a complete dog's dinner. It doesn't mean the earth isn't flat though.

a) If you are producing that model as proof that airplanes can fly, it would fail completely. If your FE model doesn't work, it's not proof of anything.

b) A bunch of wood blocks glued together in a vague shape of an airplane is not a valid model.

I think you are confusing the term 'model' like 'model airplane' with the scientific term 'a model of a system describing it's mechanics'.

Building a wooden 'model' of a flat earth with a Plexiglas dome is just... a piece of wood with some plastic. It's not proof of anything.

A true scientific model would be a map to scale that shows the continents and how the sun and moon move around it, at a minimum. Get that working and I'll be very interested to look at it.

*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020, 11:23:46 PM »
As models go, nothing is more accurate than a time piece.



It shows the planets moving, phases of the moon, represents the earth as a flat plane ... and works on clockwork. Not some ropey maths. It actually uses gearing to show the precise locations of the planets, where the terminator of the sun is, the position of the stars (constellations) ... there's a flat model right there. I've never seen anyone with a globe on their wrist able to do the same thing.

You can pick this up in our flat earth merch store. Just kidding, it retails for over $95,000. I guess that's the price you pay for the truth.
https://www.chrono24.com/ulyssenardin/tellurium-j-kepler-limited-edition--id4236517.htm
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 11:25:22 PM by Toddler Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 879
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2020, 11:24:40 PM »
Quote
And yet you won't accept a flat earth if we can't provide an explanation. Interesting double standard. It is almost as if you are just seeking confirmation bias as you go from idea to idea.
I'll gladly accept something if it can be explained thoroughly. I don't immediately jump to aliens from outer space as an explanation for a literally unidentified object..  If I were walking down the street and caught a glimpse of a fast moving object on the road, my thought wouldn't be "OMG I couldn't identify that mysterious object, it must be aliens!"

My point was, the chances of those UFO's being actual aliens is slim and there is probably a better explanation for what they saw, it could be birds, it could be planes, it's not superman.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 879
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2020, 11:27:14 PM »
As models go, nothing is more accurate than a time piece.



It shows the planets moving, phases of the moon, represents the earth as a flat plane ... and works on clockwork. Not some ropey maths. It actually uses gearing to show the precise locations of the planets, where the terminator of the sun is, the position of the stars (constellations) ... there's a flat model right there. I've never seen anyone with a globe on their wrist able to do the same thing.

You can pick this up in our flat earth merch store. Just kidding, it retails for over $95,000. I guess that's the price you pay for the truth.
https://www.chrono24.com/ulyssenardin/tellurium-j-kepler-limited-edition--id4236517.htm
I'm going to assume you're joking at this point, but that is a cool watch regardless.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2020, 11:29:52 PM »
Why is that joking? It is everything you ever asked for regarding a model of the flat earth heavens, actually physically working in a scaled down model.

Here's another.


This one is $75,000. You want to join the elites with a proper flat watch instead of believing the round earth joke? Want to show the Rothschilds and the Clintons that you know earth is flat? You're gonna need to drop some serious wonga on a watch.
https://www.ulysse-nardin.com/row_en/1062-113-01.html

I've always wanted a flat earth watch, but the prices are insane.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 11:32:31 PM by Toddler Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 879
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2020, 11:32:52 PM »
Because if you're not joking then you're just dense, and I don't want to assume the worst of the two options. Secret third option being you have stocks in watch companies.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Toddler Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2691
  • I am Toddler Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2020, 11:35:04 PM »
Because if you're not joking then you're just dense, and I don't want to assume the worst of the two options. Secret third option being you have stocks in watch companies.
You ask for a model. You get a model that isn't just the theoretical maths, but a practical precise and exquisite model of how the heavens could work if earth was at the centre and the universe span around it ... and you are still not happy. Doesn't get any more accurate than a $95,000 time piece!  ::)
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Online Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 6224
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2020, 12:50:26 AM »
There are interviews with the Navy Officer that commanded the squad that filmed the 2004 video. Very interesting stuff. He says that he has never seen something fly like the “tic tac” flies. Effectively instantaneous acceleration. No IR radiation emissions. If this isn’t an alien craft then someone on Earth has technology order of magnitudes more sophisticated than what we have seen so far.

Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2020, 09:16:35 AM »
This is like saying "people over 8 feet tall don't exist". Why don't you ever see them in your town? Why are they only on TV? Surely its just green screen trickery, right? Why isn't there one in my local zoo? Why can't i meet a giant? ... and the answer is ... people over 8 feet tall are extremely rare. As are alien visits.

It’s nothing like that. I didn’t say I was expecting to see aliens walking down the high street all the time before I believe in them.
I believe in 8 foot tall people because while they are rare, there are very clear photos and film of them, there’s lots of people who have met them and taken photos of them and with them.
I don’t have to have met someone who is 8 feet tall to be pretty sure they exist unless there is some weird “very tall people exist” global conspiracy.

A better comparison is Bigfoot. Why are there only really blurry photos of something which is really hard to identify? If there were Bigfoots or Loch Ness monsters then surely there would be some really clear pictures of footage. I saw a YouTube video recently in which someone said it’s interesting how sightings of the Loch Ness monster have gone down since smartphones were invented, surely you’d now expect clear photos of it everywhere.

If you’re going with visits from aliens are rare then ok, that would explain the absence of clear evidence. But given the lack of clear evidence it’s impossible to confidently say we have aliens visiting us. One other thing I’ll add here is I think you’ll find that the “sightings” of UFOs just happen to coincide with the space race and us being able to launch things into orbit. That surely has to fire everyone’s collective imagination.

I don’t think your belief in the shape of the earth should hang on this although I agree that the existence of aliens does fit better with RE than most FE models where the earth is special and the universe small.

My gut feel is that while aliens may well exist “out there”, the out there is likely to be too far away for us to ever meet them or communicate with them. There is certainly no clear evidence that alien craft routinely visit us, much less interact with us.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

*

Offline Dr Van Nostrand

  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • There may be something to this 'Matrix' stuff...
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2020, 01:59:42 PM »
I want to believe in aliens as much as the next guy but it's starting to look like it's not going to happen. Our exoplanet research is starting to show that our cosmos is a cesspool. We've found that planets and stars can exist in a lot of nasty configurations that we didn't think about and only one tiny sliver of probabilities produced us.

Given the vastness of the universe, yeah, there's probably life out there. Given the data we've seen so far, I'm guessing the Drake equation will solve for about one civilization per galaxy. We're alone as we can be without actually being alone.

I don't believe these videos actually show extraterrestrials. It's probably something normal like scouts from a civilization deep under ground, maybe inter-dimensional bigfoots, or technology from the advanced civilization of Wakanda. It could be ghost whales or angel chariots.

It sucks that I'll never get to actually have sex with a hot alien chick but at least I don't have to worry about some creature humping my face and laying its eggs in my body.
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...


I just wanted to make a census now the only data i have is "your mom"

Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2020, 02:08:04 PM »
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Offline BRrollin

  • *
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2020, 02:35:58 PM »
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
“This just shows that you don't even understand the basic principle of UA...A projectile that goes up and then down again to an observer on Earth is not accelerating, it is the observer on Earth who accelerates.”

- Parsifal


“I hang out with sane people.”

- totallackey

Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2020, 02:40:19 PM »
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Offline BRrollin

  • *
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 03:24:18 PM »
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
“This just shows that you don't even understand the basic principle of UA...A projectile that goes up and then down again to an observer on Earth is not accelerating, it is the observer on Earth who accelerates.”

- Parsifal


“I hang out with sane people.”

- totallackey

Re: Are we going to just ignore the aliens, then?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2020, 04:06:37 PM »
I am of the opinion that references to "extraterrestrial," phenomena are more likely to be "extra dimensional."

Wouldn’t that be cool!

I wonder, what probability analysis are you using to justify “more likely?” How do we assign probabilities to extraterrestrials vs inter-dimensional travel?

Seems to me that claims of observations are more likely to be folks seeing weird shit that is just unusual, but has nothing to do with little green men.
I am just of the opinion that J. Allen Hynek was right.

About which claim? Psychic surgery, nature elementals? Hynek made so many unfounded claims that he was ousted from the scientific community.

A shame really. He’s an example of a trained scientist who departed from the scientific method to pursue fame.

Why would a FEer, and hence proponent of the zetetic method, believe the non-zetetic ramblings of a disrepute?
Actually, he's an example of what happens when you disagree with the boss (who happens to be a dick and has a gun in their hand).
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.