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Offline Tumeni

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2020, 11:28:43 AM »
As a flat earther, I hold the images were altered to depict a globe.

How would this be done, with an original negative or transparency film?

Surely if Random House had access to the originals, they would have noticed the originals were unaltered?
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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2020, 11:55:09 AM »
As a flat earther, I hold the images were altered to depict a globe.

How would this be done, with an original negative or transparency film?

Surely if Random House had access to the originals, they would have noticed the originals were unaltered?
I am totally unfamiliar with the book you are referencing.

Where did Random House access the originals?
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2020, 11:57:04 AM »
Simply false.

Every image of the earth issued by NASA is altered.
Plenty of film and pictures of the whole earth here from Apollo 8, the first mission to get far enough away from earth to picture the whole earth:



And once again you miss the point. Not all the pictures and film has been altered, but even if that were true, you can only alter a picture of something if...you have a picture of the something. When a magazine picture is airbrushed you could say it's altering the original. But the person in the original picture still exists. The photographer was in front of that person when they took the photo.

These pictures and film from the Apollo 8 mission only exist because astronauts were there and taking footage of the globe earth.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2020, 10:20:25 AM »
Not all the pictures and film has been altered, but even if that were true, you can only alter a picture of something if...you have a picture of the something...
You need to have the image, yes...

But all of them have been altered...

Easily demonstrable...

Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.

None of them depict the same thing.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2020, 10:35:19 AM »
Not all the pictures and film has been altered, but even if that were true, you can only alter a picture of something if...you have a picture of the something...
You need to have the image, yes...

But all of them have been altered...

Easily demonstrable...

Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.

None of them depict the same thing.

Could you please elaborate? All the images I've seen were very consistent with the commonly accepted globe model. Do you have an example of images "not depicting the same thing"? Obviously, images taken from a different angle and a different distance will show different parts of the Earth.

Also, what about images released by other space agencies? European, Russian, Japanese, Indian...

Which ones have you found that are not consistent with a globe earth model such as seen, for exemple, at https://earth.google.com ?
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

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Offline JSS

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2020, 10:48:29 AM »
Not all the pictures and film has been altered, but even if that were true, you can only alter a picture of something if...you have a picture of the something...
You need to have the image, yes...

But all of them have been altered...

Easily demonstrable...

Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.

None of them depict the same thing.

Lets say I go outside right now in the morning and take a picture of the sky, then take another tonight after sunset. They will look completely different, does this mean they are fake and there is no sky?

Every picture of the Earth, taken from different distances, different seasons, different times of day, different angles, and different years will be unique. It's a big planet with weather and even human activities over decades like deforestation will be visible as changes.

Can you tell me what you expect pictures from space to look like? Should they all look exactly the same? What are you expecting to see?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2020, 11:00:22 AM »
Also different cameras/lenses will make a difference. If you're going to say that different pictures have different colours for the earth, I don't particularly care about that. If the picture of the shape of the earth is changing in each one then we have something to talk about.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2020, 11:15:34 AM »
If the picture of the shape of the earth is changing in each one then we have something to talk about.
I doubt you would. The shape of the Earth does change in pretty much every supposed picture of it, and yet the obvious RET-consistent explanation for it is simple optics.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2020, 11:23:35 AM »
If the picture of the shape of the earth is changing in each one then we have something to talk about.
I doubt you would. The shape of the Earth does change in pretty much every supposed picture of it, and yet the obvious RET-consistent explanation for it is simple optics.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. As previously mentioned, different angles and distances will obviously result in different images.

Once again: did anyone find any image taken from space that is not consistent with the commonly accepted globe model?
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2020, 11:26:14 AM »
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Then it's time to pick up photography. How do you expect to have a discussion on something you don't understand the very basics of?

Once again: did anyone find any image taken from space that is not consistent with the commonly accepted globe model?
That depends on your definition of "consistent", but I'll humour you.

Has anyone found any image supposedly taken from space that is not consistent with the mainstream FE model?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2020, 11:30:59 AM »
You need to have the image, yes...
But all of them have been altered...
Easily demonstrable...
Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.
None of them depict the same thing.

Different cameras, different lenses, different distances, different position of observing craft, etc. etc.

Why would you expect them all to be the same?
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2020, 11:34:59 AM »
.... I'll humour you.

Has anyone found any image supposedly taken from space that is not consistent with the mainstream FE model?

There seems to be a number of "mainstream FE models", for many flat-earthers, here and elsewhere, respond to queries with something along the lines of  " .. but it depends on which model you consider", but .... I'll humour you.

Yes. Multiple images.

And videos. And films. And data.
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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2020, 11:46:47 AM »
The shape of the Earth does change in pretty much every supposed picture of it

Examples and citations, please.
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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2020, 12:06:13 PM »
If the picture of the shape of the earth is changing in each one then we have something to talk about.
I doubt you would. The shape of the Earth does change in pretty much every supposed picture of it, and yet the obvious RET-consistent explanation for it is simple optics.
In what way? Is it in a way that shows inconsistency to what is expected of a spheroid earth? What do you expect to see from a photo of earth instead? I ask because I've seen people (not you but randomflat earthers) say things like countries are depicted bigger or smaller in various photos, but this can be explained by distance of the camera used to take the picture. Is there an official photo out there taken of the earth by a government agency claimed to be a real photo that shows anything other than a picture of a globe shape? And if so, could you present it so we can compare?
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2020, 12:10:34 PM »
Not all the pictures and film has been altered, but even if that were true, you can only alter a picture of something if...you have a picture of the something...
You need to have the image, yes...
Right. Good. And how do you get the images of the globe earth without being in space?

Quote
But all of them have been altered...
Easily demonstrable...
Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.
None of them depict the same thing.

OK. Well here's 3 pictures I took of a globe I have. I have not altered any of these images (full disclosure, I have cropped them, but that's all, I've not applied any filters). I've simply put them into one image and reduced the size of the combined image. I've not altered any of them in the way you mean, I've done nothing to change the way the images actually looked when I took them:



Those are 3 pictures of the same object. Do they look the same? The top one I stood quite close to it and took a picture.
The second one I stood further away and zoomed in.
The last one I stood further away than the first but closer than the second and I changed my camera setting, you can see the lighting looks quite different. Actually though I took the 3 pictures within a minute and all of the same object.

I've attached the picture in case you are still having that imgbb problem.

So while NASA may well alter some images to enhance them, not all of their images are altered and different pictures of the globe looking different is simply because the pictures were taken from different distances and with different cameras or settings.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2020, 01:37:41 PM »
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Then it's time to pick up photography. How do you expect to have a discussion on something you don't understand the very basics of?

What I'm not sure I understand is what you meant. It's been mentioned by almost everyone: sure, images taken in different conditions will give a different result. Just like of any object, even down here on Earth. But unless you seriously alter a photo, you won't see a square where there actually is a circle.

Quote
Once again: did anyone find any image taken from space that is not consistent with the commonly accepted globe model?
That depends on your definition of "consistent", but I'll humour you.

"Not consistent" would be any picture that doesn't look like what it's supposed to look like if you take a picture of an oblate spheroidal Earth from space. Continents not being at the place they're expected to be for example.
 
Quote
Has anyone found any image supposedly taken from space that is not consistent with the mainstream FE model?

Oh, so now there actually is a mainstream FE model? Great news.

And yes, many images taken from space do show for example the Antarctic, which is a hoax in the popular monopole model : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Satellite_pictures_of_Antarctica. Or show phases of the Earth, that are only compatible with a globe : https://himawari8.nict.go.jp/ . Or show how it spins : https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/ .

I can't see a way to reconcile these images with any FE model. Can you?
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2020, 01:01:41 PM »
Yes. Multiple images.

And videos. And films. And data.
Please, go on. Don't leave us on a cliffhanger.

But unless you seriously alter a photo, you won't see a square where there actually is a circle.
And yet when shown a circle, you proudly assert it's a globe. The dissonance here is striking.

I can't see a way to reconcile these images with any FE model. Can you?
So you have unverifiable pictures of some landmass, and of the illuminated portion of the Earth. The former is hopefully obvious, but the latter requires a rudimentary understanding of the mainstream model, of which you are proudly ignorant. I can't fix that for you.

In short: yes, under EA, the photographs you presented depict exactly what one would expect. I don't see anything to "reconcile" here.

You might recall I posted in this thread early on pointing out that these would be inconclusive. It's a shame you didn't think to use the search function to find out why.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2020, 01:28:34 PM »
But unless you seriously alter a photo, you won't see a square where there actually is a circle.

And yet when shown a circle, you proudly assert it's a globe. The dissonance here is striking.

No, it is not.

Although the globe may LOOK like a circle when rendered in a photograph, humankind knows it is a globe from the assemblage of other photos from differing distances and angles, from data accumulated over the last 60 years or so of space flight, and from earthbound measurements since the 1600s.
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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2020, 03:11:39 PM »
In short: yes, under EA, the photographs you presented depict exactly what one would expect. I don't see anything to "reconcile" here.
You'd probably want to think about how these photos exist.
The general way multiple countries (say they) launch craft that take these sort of photos is by launching something into orbit around a spinning globe.
Plus there are visual cues that indicate that these are not pictures of a flat surface, you can see the way land masses and clouds wrap around the outside of a ball.
And it's not hard to find timelapse video from craft showing the earth as a spinning globe.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline JSS

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Re: With Zetetic method, what pictures are Real vs. Fake
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2020, 03:57:02 PM »
In short: yes, under EA, the photographs you presented depict exactly what one would expect. I don't see anything to "reconcile" here.
You'd probably want to think about how these photos exist.
The general way multiple countries (say they) launch craft that take these sort of photos is by launching something into orbit around a spinning globe.
Plus there are visual cues that indicate that these are not pictures of a flat surface, you can see the way land masses and clouds wrap around the outside of a ball.
And it's not hard to find timelapse video from craft showing the earth as a spinning globe.

Here is a good one, from the NASA satellite about a million miles away. An entire year of photographs, taken every few hours.