Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2020, 04:06:20 PM »

Does Bing maps use different scales, all at the same time?

Bing maps different different scales all at the same time. It has an algorithm which determines which scale, out of the the many different scales, is the most applicable based on what part of the map you are looking at and how far zoomed in you are.



Because you were bringing it up and you're most certainly wrong.

by your logic there is no such a thing as an accurate map. It's funny because i'm able to use maps like those to accurately navigate thousands and thousands of square miles of this earth is multiple different continents.


if you could take a photo of the earth in its entirety from space, if it were flat, from a long distance with a decent telescope of some kind so there isn't much perspective, what would it look like?

I don't know. I don't have an advanced degree in optics. Let alone a deep understanding of how our visual cortex makes images in micro or zero gravity when the light from the image has went from a vacuum through layers and layers of an atmosphere, bounced off the surface of a planet, went back through layers and layers of an atmosphere, and refracted through some sort of viewing portal or camera lense.   It could look like a sphere. It could look like a dinner plate. It could look like


if the answer you're going to give is the bing map then you're simply wrong.

I would hate to live in a world where, after thousands and thousands of years, we were still unable to make an accurate map of the world. This is where our views differ.

On the bing map ... if you stand at the poles your body stretches across the entire width of the world...

no it does not. Did you not see my previous post. You saying that is the same as saying that walking down a hallway shrinks you.



« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 04:16:28 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline stack

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2020, 11:57:09 PM »
if the answer you're going to give is the bing map then you're simply wrong.

I would hate to live in a world where, after thousands and thousands of years, we were still unable to make an accurate map of the world. This is where our views differ.

We do have extremely accurate maps and their accuracy is dependent upon the projection from a globe using globe coordinates systems and distances. One can certainly create a map that is very accurate on a much, much smaller scale, for the sake of argument let's say 100km x 100km, without having to get into the globe projection business. But at scales greater than that accuracy will begin to subside. e.g., State Plane Maps.
"(State Plane Maps) By using the Cartesian coordinate system's simple XY coordinates, "plane surveying" methods can be used, speeding up and simplifying calculations. Second, the system is highly accurate within each zone (error less than 1:10,000). Outside a specific state plane zone accuracy rapidly declines, thus the system is not useful for regional or national mapping."

But we are talking about World maps here. A World map is not a 'model', it is a representation of a model. In the case of all these maps, Bing, Google, AEP, etc., they are all representations, more specifically, 'projections' of the World model. And the 'projection' representations onto a flat map surface is that of a Globe 'model'. For example, Bing, like many other maps uses the very common Mercator Globe Projection, accurate for distances but distortion in size:

Bing: Greenland is massive! Bigger than Africa. It is not in reality.




The overall point is that using a map as the model for the world is going at it backwards as maps are derived from the model, not the other way around. At least in 2020. For globe believers the job has already been done, the model is a globe. And if you have a globe, check it out, it's extremely accurate and without distortion, if not a little unwieldy to take as your navigation tool on your next road trip.

If you want a flat earth 'model', not a map, but a model, for a flat earth, seemingly a model-to-map should be dead simple as there would technically be none of this globe projection business that distorts things. As well a flat earth model would need to be as accurate as a globe without distortion just like a globe doesn't possess distortion. An FE model-to-map should be 1-to-1.

So think model, not map. The map should be easy once an FE model exists.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2020, 10:45:13 AM »
I've noticed Bing maps come up a lot in this forum. The reason seems to be that unlike Google maps, when you zoom out, you end up with a flat map, rather than a globe. But here's a little experiment you can try for yourselves. Zoom all the way out and then back in a little on Australia and then pan so you can see both Australia and a large part of Antarctica. Use the context menu (i.e. right click on Windows) "Measure distance" tool to draw a rectangle around Australia, note the area it calculates, I got about 6.5 million square miles. Now reset the measuring tool and draw another rectangle of the same approximate size over Antarctica. I got around 225 thousand square miles. In other words, one rectangle is 30x times larger than the other, yet they are visually identical.

This simply confirms that under the hood, Bing are using a globe model, they are just displaying a flat, Mercator projection of this globe model in the browser.


Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2020, 10:01:24 PM »

Bing: Greenland is massive! Bigger than Africa. It is not in reality.
I've already demonstrated that, because of an interactive scale which changes based on how the user interacts with the map you are able to see Greenland is smaller than Africa.

i'm looking at Greenland right now on Bing and I can CLEARLY see that it's about 700 miles north to south according to the scale.


Please see the image shown below:





Then, using bing maps, as i interact with the interactive map the interactive map scales and I can see that, the very northernmost countries in Africa are over 700 miles north to south. CLEARLY showing that Greenland is smaller than Africa.




I got about 6.5 million square miles. Now reset the measuring tool and draw another rectangle of the same approximate size over Antarctica. I got around 225 thousand square miles. In other words, one rectangle is 30x times larger than the other, yet they are visually identical.


Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:05:35 PM by iamcpc »

Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2020, 10:57:42 PM »
Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

True enough, but if you were trying to produce an interactive online flat map of a flat surface, why on earth would you use an interactive scale. What would be the point, other than to confuse everyone?

On the other hand if you take a sphere and project it onto a flat surface, you accept that however you project it, the result is compromised and with a Mercator projection you know your representations of lengths and areas are inaccurate particularly around the poles, so the behaviour of the Bing maps measuring tool is exactly what you'd expect of a Mercator projection of an underlying (nearly) spherical earth. Plus of course Bing's/Microsoft's own documentation specifies that they use a Mercator projection and use WGS84.

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Offline stack

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2020, 12:00:58 AM »
Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

I'm not sure why we have to keep going through this, but according to Microsoft, the creator of Bing Maps:

"To simplify the calculations, we use the spherical form of this projection, not the ellipsoidal form. Since the projection is used only for map display, and not for displaying numeric coordinates, we don’t need the extra precision of an ellipsoidal projection. The spherical projection causes approximately 0.33% scale distortion in the Y direction, which is not visually noticeable...The ground resolution varies depending on the level of detail and the latitude at which it’s measured. Using an earth radius of 6378137 meters,"
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/bingmaps/articles/bing-maps-tile-system

You do realize that Bing Maps is derived from a globe projection (Mercator) whether zoomed in or out? Yes?

Again, you're using an RE map as an FE model (that is clearly derived from a Globe) and not coming up with an FE model that could be made into an FE map.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2020, 01:39:59 PM »
Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

I had a further think about what you said and wondered if it might be possible to demonstrate that Bing is in fact a map of the globe rather than just some map with (for some reason) an interactive scale.

How about this: type in -75,-80 into Bing maps and you're placing a pin at a precise lat/long 75S,80W. Repeat this process to add 3 more pins at -75,+80, 0,-80 and 0,+80. You now have 4 pins on the map making up the corners of a rectangle, the top of the rectangle is a line along the equator and the bottom is a line of the same apparent length cutting across Antarctica. Now use the measuring tool to measure the lengths of these two lines as accurately as you can. I got 17811km and 3288km respectively. Now calculate the great circle distances you would expect to find on a spherical Earth and compare the results. If the distances match up then Bing maps is giving you the same answers as a spherical earth.

I used an online calculator https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html for the great circle distances and got 17790km and 3284km, so that's 21km and 4km difference respectively between Bing and the calculated values, or 0.1%.

I'd call that conclusive.




Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2020, 05:59:36 PM »

You do realize that Bing Maps is derived from a globe projection (Mercator) whether zoomed in or out? Yes?

Again, you're using an RE map as an FE model (that is clearly derived from a Globe) and not coming up with an FE model that could be made into an FE map.

You can stand there and say that about every single FE model presented to you. This website says it's based on a globe projection. Congratulations. I admit you're able to find something on the internet that says the ______________ FE model is based on a glob projection.  I concede defeat in this matter. You are able to do this with literally every FE model I've ever seen.

I would just use the Bing map API to build my own map and then make an "about" section and say it's based on a FE projection. Just because someone puts text on an HTML document and puts it on a URL does not make it any more or less true.



Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

I had a further think about what you said and wondered if it might be possible to demonstrate that Bing is in fact a map of the globe rather than just some map with (for some reason) an interactive scale.

How about this: type in -75,-80 into Bing maps and you're placing a pin at a precise lat/long 75S,80W. Repeat this process to add 3 more pins at -75,+80, 0,-80 and 0,+80. You now have 4 pins on the map making up the corners of a rectangle, the top of the rectangle is a line along the equator and the bottom is a line of the same apparent length cutting across Antarctica. Now use the measuring tool to measure the lengths of these two lines as accurately as you can. I got 17811km and 3288km respectively. Now calculate the great circle distances you would expect to find on a spherical Earth and compare the results. If the distances match up then Bing maps is giving you the same answers as a spherical earth.

I used an online calculator https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html for the great circle distances and got 17790km and 3284km, so that's 21km and 4km difference respectively between Bing and the calculated values, or 0.1%.

I'd call that conclusive.


Again you are making the claim that, because this map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. I still disagree. There are flat states, countries, areas etc on every map yet the interactive scale still applies to these small areas. By your logic, the flattest state in the united states, Florida, is a sphere because it has an interactive scale.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 06:03:53 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline stack

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2020, 07:09:13 PM »

You do realize that Bing Maps is derived from a globe projection (Mercator) whether zoomed in or out? Yes?

Again, you're using an RE map as an FE model (that is clearly derived from a Globe) and not coming up with an FE model that could be made into an FE map.

You can stand there and say that about every single FE model presented to you. This website says it's based on a globe projection. Congratulations. I admit you're able to find something on the internet that says the ______________ FE model is based on a glob projection.  I concede defeat in this matter. You are able to do this with literally every FE model I've ever seen.

I would just use the Bing map API to build my own map and then make an "about" section and say it's based on a FE projection. Just because someone puts text on an HTML document and puts it on a URL does not make it any more or less true.

I think you're missing the point. It's not just "someone" who put text on the web stating that it's a globe projection using globe coordinates and distances, in the case of Bing, it's Microsoft who is the "someone". You know, the developers/owners of Bing Maps. I've cited the Microsoft Bing Maps developers site that states everything I've relayed. Why you still think the information is coming from some random person, idk. If you have a problem with the fact that Bing Maps uses a globe projection, globe coordinates, and distances you'd actually have to take that up directly with Microsoft.

Just because a map has an interactive scale does not mean that it's a map of the globe. If you zoom all the way it the planet is very clearly not depicted as a globe.

I had a further think about what you said and wondered if it might be possible to demonstrate that Bing is in fact a map of the globe rather than just some map with (for some reason) an interactive scale.

How about this: type in -75,-80 into Bing maps and you're placing a pin at a precise lat/long 75S,80W. Repeat this process to add 3 more pins at -75,+80, 0,-80 and 0,+80. You now have 4 pins on the map making up the corners of a rectangle, the top of the rectangle is a line along the equator and the bottom is a line of the same apparent length cutting across Antarctica. Now use the measuring tool to measure the lengths of these two lines as accurately as you can. I got 17811km and 3288km respectively. Now calculate the great circle distances you would expect to find on a spherical Earth and compare the results. If the distances match up then Bing maps is giving you the same answers as a spherical earth.

I used an online calculator https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html for the great circle distances and got 17790km and 3284km, so that's 21km and 4km difference respectively between Bing and the calculated values, or 0.1%.

I'd call that conclusive.


Again you are making the claim that, because this map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. I still disagree. There are flat states, countries, areas etc on every map yet the interactive scale still applies to these small areas. By your logic, the flattest state in the united states, Florida, is a sphere because it has an interactive scale.

The case is not because the map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. The case is that, as robinofloxley demonstrated, even though using the interactive scale, zooming in in this case, the distances are based upon a globe. That doesn't defacto mean the earth is a globe, it just means that Microsoft is using a globe model for their map even when using the interactive scaling tool. Make sense?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2020, 11:03:02 PM »
I think you're missing the point. It's not just "someone" who put text on the web stating that it's a globe projection using globe coordinates and distances, in the case of Bing, it's Microsoft who is the "someone". You know, the developers/owners of Bing Maps. I've cited the Microsoft Bing Maps developers site that states everything I've relayed. Why you still think the information is coming from some random person, idk. If you have a problem with the fact that Bing Maps uses a globe projection, globe coordinates, and distances you'd actually have to take that up directly with Microsoft.

Actually as someone who works with development I can assure you this is not the case. Microsoft is a company of about 148,000 people. How many of those 148,000 were involved on the text on the website you referenced? I will be very generous here and say it is maybe 20.  Now, of those 20 people, how many of them actually changed the text to what it is? Most likely one web developer.

As a matter of fact web development like this is so easy a layman could learn to do it with a few hours of youtube videos. I was able to change the HTML text on the website in about 15 seconds.

The difference here is that i'm not going to make my decisions based on the text on an HTML document.

Notice the text on the HTML document listed below has been changed. I really don't work for Microsoft and these kinds of changes are super easy.







The case is not because the map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. The case is that, as robinofloxley demonstrated, even though using the interactive scale, zooming in in this case, the distances are based upon a globe. That doesn't defacto mean the earth is a globe, it just means that Microsoft is using a globe model for their map even when using the interactive scaling tool. Make sense?

Here is where we disagree. Because the distances on Bing maps match the distances that we have measured in real life, and it also has an interactive scale, does not mean the earth is round.

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Offline stack

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2020, 11:44:52 PM »
I think you're missing the point. It's not just "someone" who put text on the web stating that it's a globe projection using globe coordinates and distances, in the case of Bing, it's Microsoft who is the "someone". You know, the developers/owners of Bing Maps. I've cited the Microsoft Bing Maps developers site that states everything I've relayed. Why you still think the information is coming from some random person, idk. If you have a problem with the fact that Bing Maps uses a globe projection, globe coordinates, and distances you'd actually have to take that up directly with Microsoft.

Actually as someone who works with development I can assure you this is not the case. Microsoft is a company of about 148,000 people. How many of those 148,000 were involved on the text on the website you referenced? I will be very generous here and say it is maybe 20.  Now, of those 20 people, how many of them actually changed the text to what it is? Most likely one web developer.

As a matter of fact web development like this is so easy a layman could learn to do it with a few hours of youtube videos. I was able to change the HTML text on the website in about 15 seconds.

The difference here is that i'm not going to make my decisions based on the text on an HTML document.

I'm not sure where to go with this. And I'm not sure where you are coming from. Yes, Microsoft is a large company. Yes, HTML markup/content is easy to change. Is it your claim that the person(s) responsible for the content regarding Bing Maps for developers using Bing Maps is writing erroneous information? Would you prefer a PDF?

Notice the text on the HTML document listed below has been changed. I really don't work for Microsoft and these kinds of changes are super easy.

Yes, you changed it, but I don't see your changes because you have no access to make changes. I don't see your point.

Maybe I'm under the faulty assumption that the Microsoft literature regarding their own Bing Maps is correct yet it is being altered by one-off employees for 'reasons'. I tend not to go there, but maybe you do.

The case is not because the map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. The case is that, as robinofloxley demonstrated, even though using the interactive scale, zooming in in this case, the distances are based upon a globe. That doesn't defacto mean the earth is a globe, it just means that Microsoft is using a globe model for their map even when using the interactive scaling tool. Make sense?

Here is where we disagree. Because the distances on Bing maps match the distances that we have measured in real life, and it also has an interactive scale, does not mean the earth is round.

As I stated earlier, the case is not because the map has an interactive scale, the earth is round. But if you examine robinofloxley's demonstration, even when zoomed in, Bing is still using globe distances. There's no denying that.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2020, 10:41:47 AM »
Here is where we disagree. Because the distances on Bing maps match the distances that we have measured in real life, and it also has an interactive scale, does not mean the earth is round.

OK, you agree that distances on Bing maps match real life. In that case, let me try another approach. Let's for the sake of argument say that Bing maps is based on a flat earth. So basic rules of euclidean flat plane geometry apply.



I hope we agree that since both diagonals are the same length, as are the two sides and top/bottom, then we are talking about a rectangle and using Pythagoras from basic high school maths, sides abc form a right angle triangle and therefore a2 + b2 = c2

So now let's use the same technique from earlier to drop a pin at each corner of a rectangle on a Bing map. The pins are at (lat/long) (-45,+60), (-45,-60), (+45,+60) and (+45,-60). Now measure the distances. We should see the same result as before, a2 + b2 = c2. But we don't. Taking a to be 8398km and b to be 10010km should give a value for c of 13066km, but Bing tells us the distance is 15410km. A difference of 2344km, 18%.

There are two possibilities here. Pythagoras is broken or Pythagoras for some reason doesn't apply. And Pythagoras does not apply for non-eculidean geometry, i.e. this is not a flat plane. It doesn't prove the globe, but does show that whatever Bing are using as an underlying model for their distance calculations (and you've agreed these match reality), it isn't flat.

Personally I would go further. These same distance calculations almost perfectly match a spherical geometry with the earth's radius as given in many sources, so my money is on the underlying geometry being essentially spherical.


Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2020, 04:57:31 PM »
OK, you agree that distances on Bing maps match real life. In that case, let me try another approach. Let's for the sake of argument say that Bing maps is based on a flat earth. So basic rules of euclidean flat plane geometry apply.


You can't compare a stagnant image with one scale to a moving interactive system with multiple scales. Of course they are different. They are different in every way.


I'm not sure where to go with this. And I'm not sure where you are coming from. Yes, Microsoft is a large company. Yes, HTML markup/content is easy to change. Is it your claim that the person(s) responsible for the content regarding Bing Maps for developers using Bing Maps is writing erroneous information? Would you prefer a PDF?

My point is that I would rather think for myself. Anyone can put anything into writing.  This entire forum is an exercise in free thinking. In addition I could present you any map of the earth and you could say something to the effect of "that does not count as a FE map because that map is based on a sphere map" and then give me a link to a website with text confirming your theory.

I've already conceded that you can do that with any map of the earth i present. We can just both agree that you will reject any FE map presented and move on.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 05:01:37 PM by iamcpc »

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2020, 06:14:17 PM »
it's not just a link to any website with text telling us what to think, it's a massively used map of the globe represented in a projected format proven over and over again by millions of people. if you want to confirm it just take the picture of Bing's map and reproject it onto a globe and see the measured distances no longer warp at the poles like they do on the projected Bing map.

the world isn't just a globe because the bing map is a projection... the Bing map is a projection because the world is a globe. the difference is clear. if it's a globe earth map, it's not a flat earth map. In other news a pyramid can't be a cylinder either without stretching and distorting it.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2020, 07:32:12 PM »
the world isn't just a globe because the bing map is a projection... the Bing map is a projection because the world is a globe. the difference is clear. if it's a globe earth map, it's not a flat earth map. In other news a pyramid can't be a cylinder either without stretching and distorting it.


I've already conceded that you can look at any map of the earth ever created and say that it's a globe map. Literally every FE model that has ever been presented someone just claims that it's not a FE model it's a RE model because it's based on a globe projection.




You can claim this is a globe map because the earth is a globe an it's based on a globe projection




Here's another one. This is another globe map because the earth is a globe and it's based on a globe projection



I could do this all day long and you can sit there and say the earth is a globe, that map is based on a globe projection ad infinitum.

I would rather not point out that you can do this 29837592837592837598237592837 times just to have you do it again.
I would rather not concede defeat on this point 29837592837592837598237592837 times just to have you do it again.



Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2020, 11:32:14 PM »

You can stand there and say that about every single FE model presented to you.


THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MAKING THIS THREAD

Finally you see. Give me any map of the earth represented as flat, and I or others will find a discrepancy with it. So far in this thread, I demonstrated the low likelihood of the current widely accepted FE model. Now there’s this bing map theory that’s in the end stages of being crippled.

Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2020, 10:14:54 AM »
OK, you agree that distances on Bing maps match real life. In that case, let me try another approach. Let's for the sake of argument say that Bing maps is based on a flat earth. So basic rules of euclidean flat plane geometry apply.


You can't compare a stagnant image with one scale to a moving interactive system with multiple scales. Of course they are different. They are different in every way.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me there. I used Bing maps because that's what you seem to trust. I put 4 pins on a Bing map simply by typing in the locations (lat/long) into the Bing search bar. Then I used Bing's "Measure distance" tool (which on Windows you get to via a right click) to get Bing to tell me the distances. All of this is within Bing, you can easily do it yourself to check the results. Honestly just try it yourself. Once you've set up a distance measure, you can zoom, pan, do whatever you like, Bing won't show you a different distance, it's the real distance between two real places.

What I've demonstrated to you is that you cannot lay these positions out on anything flat and make the distances work. What this means is that Bing's distance measurement tools cannot be using a flat geometry.

When you say "stagnant image" are you just objecting to a screenshot from Bing? How else am I supposed to illustrate it? I've told you exactly how to do this, if you don't trust my stagnant image, fine, have a go yourself and tell us what distances Bing tells you.

I'm not sure where to go with this. And I'm not sure where you are coming from. Yes, Microsoft is a large company. Yes, HTML markup/content is easy to change. Is it your claim that the person(s) responsible for the content regarding Bing Maps for developers using Bing Maps is writing erroneous information? Would you prefer a PDF?

My point is that I would rather think for myself. Anyone can put anything into writing.  This entire forum is an exercise in free thinking. In addition I could present you any map of the earth and you could say something to the effect of "that does not count as a FE map because that map is based on a sphere map" and then give me a link to a website with text confirming your theory.

I've already conceded that you can do that with any map of the earth i present. We can just both agree that you will reject any FE map presented and move on.

It seems strange to me that you're happy to trust Bing, which is a Microsoft owned product, but when it comes to the Microsoft technical documentation on Bing stack has pointed out to you, you just reject it on the basis that anybody could have put what they liked in it. It's inconceivable that Microsoft would allow any unauthorized employee or worse an outsider to make changes to one of their pages, they simply wouldn't have the security permissions to be able to do that. The alternative is that an authorized employee wrote this and nobody at Microsoft has noticed or been made aware of this, or if they have, they simply don't care. How credible is that?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 10:16:54 AM by robinofloxley »

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2020, 05:29:16 PM »

THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MAKING THIS THREAD

Finally you see. Give me any map of the earth represented as flat, and I or others will find a discrepancy with it. So far in this thread, I demonstrated the low likelihood of the current widely accepted FE model.

I have yet to have anyone show me a discrepancy with big maps.

Now there’s this bing map theory that’s in the end stages of being crippled.

It's funny how this map is widely accepted by virtually everyone as a map of the earth. It's used to map the sunrise/sunset, it's used to track flights, it's used for global navigation etc. etc. etc.

Gonna be hard to cripple

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2020, 05:35:39 PM »

THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MAKING THIS THREAD

Finally you see. Give me any map of the earth represented as flat, and I or others will find a discrepancy with it. So far in this thread, I demonstrated the low likelihood of the current widely accepted FE model.

I have yet to have anyone show me a discrepancy with big maps.

Now there’s this bing map theory that’s in the end stages of being crippled.

It's funny how this map is widely accepted by virtually everyone as a map of the earth. It's used to map the sunrise/sunset, it's used to track flights, it's used for global navigation etc. etc. etc.

Gonna be hard to cripple
literally everyone is showing you the discrepancy with bing maps, if you accept that the Bing maps works perfectly then you basically accept the earth is a globe. It's the exact same map Google uses if you turn off globe view. Crazy that.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Are plane tickets real?
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2020, 05:43:53 PM »
You can't compare a stagnant image with one scale to a moving interactive system with multiple scales. Of course they are different. They are different in every way.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me there.

You're argument is that because a line is X units long and because X units represents a different distance on Bing maps based on an interactive scale it is evidence that the earth is a sphere. Or that Bing maps is based on a sphere.


Based on that logic the image below, because it has an interactive scale, is evidence that this hallway is a sphere or that the image below is based on a sphere




What I've demonstrated to you is that you cannot lay these positions out on anything flat and make the distances work. What this means is that Bing's distance measurement tools cannot be using a flat geometry.

of course you can't The earth is not 2d. It's 3d.


When you say "stagnant image" are you just objecting to a screenshot from Bing?

A 2d drawing of triangles with three sides which are one unit long is not interactive. each side is one unit long. Putting that triangle on Bing maps is moot.

I've told you exactly how to do this, if you don't trust my stagnant image, fine, have a go yourself and tell us what distances Bing tells you.

I've been using bing maps, or maps which function very similarly to bing maps for the bettwer part of 15 years now and, with their interactive scale, they seem pretty accurate.


It seems strange to me that you're happy to trust Bing, which is a Microsoft owned product,

It's not that i'm happy to trust them. The general consensus here is that there is no map of the earth. That thought processes really does not sit well with me when i'm using a map of the earth almost every day. In thousands of years of technological progress we have not been able to make one freaking map??? Seriously?? To me this is something that is a big strike against these specific FE models. Here's a map, in which the earth is not specifically depicted as a sphere, (ad has the added bonus of being independently tested by millions and millions of users) why can't this be a map of the earth?

but when it comes to the Microsoft technical documentation on Bing stack has pointed out to you, you just reject it on the basis that anybody could have put what they liked in it. It's inconceivable that Microsoft would allow any unauthorized employee or worse an outsider to make changes to one of their pages, they simply wouldn't have the security permissions to be able to do that. The alternative is that an authorized employee wrote this and nobody at Microsoft has noticed or been made aware of this, or if they have, they simply don't care. How credible is that?

What do I need to do in order to move past this ad infinitum that is not a FE model that is a RE model because the website _____________ says it's a RE projection?  How can we possibly discuss a possible FE model when that just keeps getting regurgitated over and over and over.
The only thing that I can think of is to use the Bing API, build my own website, and in the documentation of the website say this is a projection of a non spherical earth. Would that satisfy you? Would you be able to look at that website and say, ok the website says it's not based on a globe projection?