A simple question about sunsets.
« on: January 24, 2020, 12:07:30 AM »
Hello, Flat Earthers!

I have a simple question that should be easy to answer: Why at sunset do I see the shadow line slowly crawl up a mountainside facing the sun? In the flat earth models I've seen, this doesn't make sense.

In flat earth model 1, the sun is a spotlight that focuses on certain areas of the flat earth. With this model, the shadow line should crawl DOWN the mountain on the facing side, as opposed to up.

In flat earth model 2, the sun is an omni-directional source of light, but fades into the distance. With this model, the sunlight on the mountain should fade away all at once.

Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain.

Explanation?

Thanks!

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2020, 12:31:54 PM »
Hello, Flat Earthers!

I have a simple question that should be easy to answer: Why at sunset do I see the shadow line slowly crawl up a mountainside facing the sun? In the flat earth models I've seen, this doesn't make sense.

In flat earth model 1, the sun is a spotlight that focuses on certain areas of the flat earth. With this model, the shadow line should crawl DOWN the mountain on the facing side, as opposed to up.

In flat earth model 2, the sun is an omni-directional source of light, but fades into the distance. With this model, the sunlight on the mountain should fade away all at once.

Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain.

Explanation?

Thanks!
My initial thought concerning the OP concerns the assumption that the earth is an empty plane.

Why assume that, if I may ask?
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2020, 04:22:58 PM »
Empty "plain", not empty "plane".

I wasn't suggesting you assume the whole Earth is an empty plain. What I meant was, the mountain is not surrounded by other hills, etc, which could cast the shadow on the mountain.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 04:26:02 PM »
Empty "plain", not empty "plane".
You are mistaken about this.

I have a simple question that should be easy to answer: Why at sunset do I see the shadow line slowly crawl up a mountainside facing the sun? In the flat earth models I've seen, this doesn't make sense.
It's just a different example of the same phenomenon as the "cloud lit from underside" section of https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 08:26:35 PM »
Empty "plain", not empty "plane".
You are mistaken about this.

I have a simple question that should be easy to answer: Why at sunset do I see the shadow line slowly crawl up a mountainside facing the sun? In the flat earth models I've seen, this doesn't make sense.
It's just a different example of the same phenomenon as the "cloud lit from underside" section of https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration
Slight problem is when multiple observations are made of the angle of the sun from different places at the same time and then repeated though the day.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 04:42:10 PM »
Empty "plain", not empty "plane".
You are mistaken about this.

About what? Somehow you guys took part of my question, interpreted it as a statement, then pointed out that it was wrong.  Neat trick...

If you weren't doing that on purpose, please read the original post.

I have a simple question that should be easy to answer: Why at sunset do I see the shadow line slowly crawl up a mountainside facing the sun? In the flat earth models I've seen, this doesn't make sense.
It's just a different example of the same phenomenon as the "cloud lit from underside" section of https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration
Slight problem is when multiple observations are made of the angle of the sun from different places at the same time and then repeated though the day.

More than slight :)

Also, if that theory were true, there would be a point during sunset when the shadow would go up the mountainside, then abruptly change direction and go back up.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 04:51:18 PM »
Empty "plain", not empty "plane".
What makes you think I am mistaken?
I wasn't suggesting you assume the whole Earth is an empty plain. What I meant was, the mountain is not surrounded by other hills, etc, which could cast the shadow on the mountain.
But you wrote exactly that.

I will quote it here: "Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain."

Where in the known world would this phenomena exist?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 04:54:13 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 07:06:13 PM »
Slight problem is when multiple observations are made of the angle of the sun from different places at the same time and then repeated though the day.
Not really, that would only be a problem if you ignored EA.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 02:24:37 PM »
Quote
I will quote it here: "Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain."

Where in the known world would this phenomena exist?

Lots of places have a mountain with a pretty flat plain area around it like this:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/big-empty-land-with-beautiful-mountain-background-in-mongolia-gm955711228-260936156

https://depositphotos.com/199534116/stock-photo-empty-land-sunrise-top-mountain.html

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/empty-landscape-desert-mountains-and-flat-land-of-death-valley-national-park-gm1004021894-271209736

There are many places on earth with a large hill or mountain with flat plains around them. I grew up in Oregon, and Central Oregon has many, many places like that.


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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 02:41:01 PM »
Pete,
Quote
Not really, that would only be a problem if you ignored EA.

An Electromagnetic Mass Accelerator is not a force that exists in our universe. It is basically a catapult used to launch objects into space. If you have proof that there is a natural force in the universe that somehow causes shadows or light, please point me to the scientific proof of it.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2020, 04:24:10 PM »
Quote
I will quote it here: "Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain."

Where in the known world would this phenomena exist?

Lots of places have a mountain with a pretty flat plain area around it like this:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/big-empty-land-with-beautiful-mountain-background-in-mongolia-gm955711228-260936156

https://depositphotos.com/199534116/stock-photo-empty-land-sunrise-top-mountain.html

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/empty-landscape-desert-mountains-and-flat-land-of-death-valley-national-park-gm1004021894-271209736

There are many places on earth with a large hill or mountain with flat plains around them. I grew up in Oregon, and Central Oregon has many, many places like that.
All of these photos you have introduced have mountainS visible in them.

Not simply a mountain.
Quote
You are mistaken about this.

Pete, I've come to realize that you have to always be right. Plain and plane have two very different meanings. A plain is a flat area of land. A plane is a vehicle that flies up in the air. You told him he was wrong about calling it a plain. Why would he be looking at a mountain with an aeroplane sitting next to it to view shadows? You appear to be a very condescending person. I've watched person after person ask you a question, and I've never seen you answer it. You just argue with the person, or accuse them of being rude.  Why didn't you answer his question about the shadows? Or answer my question, which is why does the sun not just get smaller, but appear to be at the same level, which is what happens if you watch someone with a flashlight walking away from you. A spotlight, miles up in the air, would not appear to drop down and disappear bottom up, it would just shrink in size. I would also like my question answered about why your model of the sun doesn't show the "ice wall" receiving sunlight 24 hours a day for 4 months out of the year. Instead of picking on my grammar or the way I ask the question, you just show me the science behind your theory, and show me a working model that gives sun 24 hours a day in the extreme northern and southern hemispheres. Just answer the question please.
The word is "plane."

I suggest you research the word, "plane," as it it relates to FET.

FET will use the word, "plain," or its plural form in the same way as RET , but the OP was utilizing the word relative to the entire flat earth plane.

In which case, I corrected him.

Okay?
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2020, 04:25:53 PM »
Pete,
Quote
Not really, that would only be a problem if you ignored EA.

An Electromagnetic Mass Accelerator is not a force that exists in our universe. It is basically a catapult used to launch objects into space. If you have proof that there is a natural force in the universe that somehow causes shadows or light, please point me to the scientific proof of it.
Okay.

How about the Sun?

Is the Sun a force of nature?
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2020, 10:03:26 PM »
Pete,
Quote
Not really, that would only be a problem if you ignored EA.

An Electromagnetic Mass Accelerator is not a force that exists in our universe. It is basically a catapult used to launch objects into space. If you have proof that there is a natural force in the universe that somehow causes shadows or light, please point me to the scientific proof of it.
You may want to read up on the very basics of the subject you're discussing prior to discussing it. You won't be met with much compassion where your only contribution is "nuh uh!"
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 04:35:34 AM »
Quote
I will quote it here: "Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain."

Where in the known world would this phenomena exist?

Lots of places have a mountain with a pretty flat plain area around it like this:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/big-empty-land-with-beautiful-mountain-background-in-mongolia-gm955711228-260936156

https://depositphotos.com/199534116/stock-photo-empty-land-sunrise-top-mountain.html

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/empty-landscape-desert-mountains-and-flat-land-of-death-valley-national-park-gm1004021894-271209736

There are many places on earth with a large hill or mountain with flat plains around them. I grew up in Oregon, and Central Oregon has many, many places like that.
All of these photos you have introduced have mountainS visible in them.

Not simply a mountain.
Quote
You are mistaken about this.

Pete, I've come to realize that you have to always be right. Plain and plane have two very different meanings. A plain is a flat area of land. A plane is a vehicle that flies up in the air. You told him he was wrong about calling it a plain. Why would he be looking at a mountain with an aeroplane sitting next to it to view shadows? You appear to be a very condescending person. I've watched person after person ask you a question, and I've never seen you answer it. You just argue with the person, or accuse them of being rude.  Why didn't you answer his question about the shadows? Or answer my question, which is why does the sun not just get smaller, but appear to be at the same level, which is what happens if you watch someone with a flashlight walking away from you. A spotlight, miles up in the air, would not appear to drop down and disappear bottom up, it would just shrink in size. I would also like my question answered about why your model of the sun doesn't show the "ice wall" receiving sunlight 24 hours a day for 4 months out of the year. Instead of picking on my grammar or the way I ask the question, you just show me the science behind your theory, and show me a working model that gives sun 24 hours a day in the extreme northern and southern hemispheres. Just answer the question please.
The word is "plane."

I suggest you research the word, "plane," as it it relates to FET.

FET will use the word, "plain," or its plural form in the same way as RET , but the OP was utilizing the word relative to the entire flat earth plane.

In which case, I corrected him.

Okay?

No; you corrected something I hadn't said. The word is NOT "plane". I was NOT utilizing the word relative to the entire flat earth plane.

I was utilizing the word "plain" with reference to a plain, i.e. a large, flat area with no hills in sight. Like what you would see in rural Saskatchewan. Or eastern Russian. Or beyond the Great Divide...there are lots of places like this. The guy who posted a picture understood.

And there doesn't have to be JUST ONE mountain, either. Let's not be silly here?

You are standing on a grassy PLAIN. With a mountain in front of you (or a mountain range, I don't care). In the other direction (behind you) there is nothing to be seen in view, except an apparently endless PLAIN. Since you can't see anything protruding from the surface in that direction, it stands to reason that nothing in that direction can be creating the shadow that is seen.

As the sun sets, the shadows goes up the mountain face. Simple geometry says that the shadow can't go up the mountain face unless the sun is sinking behind something. The "cloud lit from underside" theory doesn't accomplish anything here. We aren't talking about light sneaking in somewhere unexpected; we are talking about a shadow, the absence of light.

What's creating the shadow? What is blocking the sun's light that so regularly crawls up the mountainside, finally leaving it in shadow? If it is already dusk, why can I fly up in a plane and see the sun again? I haven't found an explanation in Flat Earth theory that explains this. Not saying there isn't one: if there is, I'd like to hear it.

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2020, 12:30:54 PM »
Quote
I will quote it here: "Please assume in these examples that the mountain is sitting on an empty plain."

Where in the known world would this phenomena exist?

Lots of places have a mountain with a pretty flat plain area around it like this:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/big-empty-land-with-beautiful-mountain-background-in-mongolia-gm955711228-260936156

https://depositphotos.com/199534116/stock-photo-empty-land-sunrise-top-mountain.html

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/empty-landscape-desert-mountains-and-flat-land-of-death-valley-national-park-gm1004021894-271209736

There are many places on earth with a large hill or mountain with flat plains around them. I grew up in Oregon, and Central Oregon has many, many places like that.
All of these photos you have introduced have mountainS visible in them.

Not simply a mountain.
Quote
You are mistaken about this.

Pete, I've come to realize that you have to always be right. Plain and plane have two very different meanings. A plain is a flat area of land. A plane is a vehicle that flies up in the air. You told him he was wrong about calling it a plain. Why would he be looking at a mountain with an aeroplane sitting next to it to view shadows? You appear to be a very condescending person. I've watched person after person ask you a question, and I've never seen you answer it. You just argue with the person, or accuse them of being rude.  Why didn't you answer his question about the shadows? Or answer my question, which is why does the sun not just get smaller, but appear to be at the same level, which is what happens if you watch someone with a flashlight walking away from you. A spotlight, miles up in the air, would not appear to drop down and disappear bottom up, it would just shrink in size. I would also like my question answered about why your model of the sun doesn't show the "ice wall" receiving sunlight 24 hours a day for 4 months out of the year. Instead of picking on my grammar or the way I ask the question, you just show me the science behind your theory, and show me a working model that gives sun 24 hours a day in the extreme northern and southern hemispheres. Just answer the question please.
The word is "plane."

I suggest you research the word, "plane," as it it relates to FET.

FET will use the word, "plain," or its plural form in the same way as RET , but the OP was utilizing the word relative to the entire flat earth plane.

In which case, I corrected him.

Okay?

No; you corrected something I hadn't said. The word is NOT "plane". I was NOT utilizing the word relative to the entire flat earth plane.

I was utilizing the word "plain" with reference to a plain, i.e. a large, flat area with no hills in sight. Like what you would see in rural Saskatchewan. Or eastern Russian. Or beyond the Great Divide...there are lots of places like this. The guy who posted a picture understood.

And there doesn't have to be JUST ONE mountain, either. Let's not be silly here?
Okay.

I agree.

You wrote the OP.

Taking responsibility for what you write is a good place to start.

You are standing on a grassy PLAIN. With a mountain in front of you (or a mountain range, I don't care). In the other direction (behind you) there is nothing to be seen in view, except an apparently endless PLAIN. Since you can't see anything protruding from the surface in that direction, it stands to reason that nothing in that direction can be creating the shadow that is seen.
Stop strawmanning.

Both FET and RET know that no endless grassy plains exist on either model.
As the sun sets, the shadows goes up the mountain face. Simple geometry says that the shadow can't go up the mountain face unless the sun is sinking behind something. The "cloud lit from underside" theory doesn't accomplish anything here. We aren't talking about light sneaking in somewhere unexpected; we are talking about a shadow, the absence of light.

What's creating the shadow? What is blocking the sun's light that so regularly crawls up the mountainside, finally leaving it in shadow? If it is already dusk, why can I fly up in a plane and see the sun again? I haven't found an explanation in Flat Earth theory that explains this. Not saying there isn't one: if there is, I'd like to hear it.
One might reasonably surmise something is behind the observer blocking the sunlight, despite the fact that something is not visible to the eye of that someone.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 02:38:08 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2020, 01:13:44 PM »
As the sun sets, the shadows goes up the mountain face. Simple geometry says that the shadow can't go up the mountain face unless the sun is sinking behind something. The "cloud lit from underside" theory doesn't accomplish anything here. We aren't talking about light sneaking in somewhere unexpected; we are talking about a shadow, the absence of light.

What's creating the shadow? What is blocking the sun's light that so regularly crawls up the mountainside, finally leaving it in shadow? If it is already dusk, why can I fly up in a plane and see the sun again? I haven't found an explanation in Flat Earth theory that explains this. Not saying there isn't one: if there is, I'd like to hear it.
I think that all of your questions would be adequately answered if you just read the wiki page on EA: https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration.
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2020, 03:39:27 PM »
As the sun sets, the shadows goes up the mountain face. Simple geometry says that the shadow can't go up the mountain face unless the sun is sinking behind something. The "cloud lit from underside" theory doesn't accomplish anything here. We aren't talking about light sneaking in somewhere unexpected; we are talking about a shadow, the absence of light.

What's creating the shadow? What is blocking the sun's light that so regularly crawls up the mountainside, finally leaving it in shadow? If it is already dusk, why can I fly up in a plane and see the sun again? I haven't found an explanation in Flat Earth theory that explains this. Not saying there isn't one: if there is, I'd like to hear it.
I think that all of your questions would be adequately answered if you just read the wiki page on EA: https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration.
To help understand the diagram better please provide the map of the earth to go with it.

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2020, 04:19:30 PM »
To help understand the diagram better please provide the map of the earth to go with it.
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Maps
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2020, 05:18:26 PM »
To help understand the diagram better please provide the map of the earth to go with it.
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Maps
Thank you, but which one is correct with confirmed distances?

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: A simple question about sunsets.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2020, 05:23:45 PM »
Thank you, but which one is correct with confirmed distances?
I don't see how that's relevant. If you want to discuss the inconsistencies in distance caused by trying to fit a globe onto a flat plane, I'm sure there are threads about that. Stay on-topic.
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in