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Offline Toddler Thork

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Trending on youtube front page
« on: January 22, 2020, 08:01:30 PM »


A highly polished hit piece. The irony being, that it will only fuel flat earth theory.  :D
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 08:34:03 PM »


A highly polished hit piece. The irony being, that it will only fuel flat earth theory.  :D

This is one of the channels I watch, they do some interesting stories.  Thanks
Nothing Guest has ever said should be taken as representative of anything other than Guest's own delusions opinions.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2020, 09:07:08 PM »
With all the effort to put together that video you would have thought they would have taken the effort to look up what the arguments actually are.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline stack

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 11:40:43 PM »
With all the effort to put together that video you would have thought they would have taken the effort to look up what the arguments actually are.

It's clear you didn't watch the video because all of the points made with a couple of exceptions are covered here in the wiki (Points made in video in bold italics):

Look out the window, it looks flat

Couldn’t find anything in the wiki specific to this, but the phrase does come up a lot.

Fake videos/pictures from space NASA lies
"The Conspiracy”
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

Seasons: Spotlight sun rotating around the center of the flat earth, the North Pole
"Flat Earth - Frequently Asked Questions“
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_do_you_explain_day.2Fnight_cycles_and_seasons.3F

Ice wall
"The Ice Wall“   
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Ice_Wall

Pacman Effect

Couldn’t find anything in the wiki about this

Gravity is a lie, things just fall
"Universal Acceleration“

UA is pretty Society specific. Lots of people in the FE community think things just fall

https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration#Alternatives_to_Universal_Acceleration

Tides, magnets in the earth
"Tides“

Doesn’t really say

https://wiki.tfes.org/Tides

Earth is unique, unlike other planets so it doesn’t need to be a sphere like them
"If the planets are round, why isn't the Earth?“
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#If_the_planets_are_round.2C_why_isn.27t_the_Earth.3F


Sinking Ship: Perspective/refraction
"Sinking Ship Effect Caused by Limits to Optical Resolution"
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect_Caused_by_Limits_to_Optical_Resolution

"Sinking Ship Effect Caused by Refraction”
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect_Caused_by_Refraction
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 02:45:58 AM »
Actually, the video didn't really address any of the discussion points related to those topics that are in use. Almost as if they wanted to totally misrepresent FE. You are being totally dishonest as well, to pretend that the views and positions were properly represented.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline stack

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 02:57:01 AM »
Actually, the video didn't really address any of the discussion points related to those topics that are in use. Almost as if they wanted to totally misrepresent FE. You are being totally dishonest as well, to pretend that the views and positions were properly represented.

I'm confused. Which points were being misrepresented? It seemed to me at least, that a lot aligned with the wiki. And also you have to take into consideration there's a much wider FE community outside of the Society. Especially considering things like UA, which is very much Society specific and has been basically the source of why this org is looked up as a shill site. I disagree, I think UA is the best representation of what 'gravity' might be on a flat earth. But most in the FE community disagree and find it anathema.

So where are the disagreements with what was presented versus the Society's wiki (And again, the Society's wiki is by no means the end-all-be-all of what the FE community cottons to)?

If you're going to claim I'm being dishonest you better back it up with specifics.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2020, 03:03:51 AM »
You are basically arguing that they had an earth that was flat and an ice wall around it and therefore the views were accurately represented. A pretty dishonest argument.

That is like saying that any criticism of RE is accurate and valid if it has a round earth and gravity in it.  ::)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 03:14:35 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline stack

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2020, 03:36:00 AM »
You are basically arguing that they had an earth that was flat and an ice wall around it and therefore the views were accurately represented. A pretty dishonest argument.

I'm really not following your logic. The FE Mom was talking about the ice wall in much the same manner your wiki talks about the Ice Wall:
Ice wall
"The Ice Wall“   
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Ice_Wall

I don't see how the FE Mom description in the video is that much different than what's in your wiki. I think from what a lot of what I've seen the mono-pole Ice Wall model is kind of standard. If the Society believes otherwise, then so be it. But again, I didn't find much of a difference between the description in the video versus what is purported here. If I'm worng, show me where I'm wrong.

That is like saying that any criticism of RE is accurate and valid if it has a round earth and gravity in it.  ::)

I am not following this logic at all. Please break it down into simpler terms. If you are referring to UA, it really is a Society thing, not a belief held by the wider FE community. I don't think the video was directly targeted at this specific Society and its beliefs. There's a much bigger FE world out there than here.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2020, 10:18:28 AM »
stack, let's make this simple: if you find one FE'er who claims to agree with the representation of the theory in there, in its entirety, you'll be able to claim that there exist FE'ers of whom this is representative. If the video's author wanted to make that claim, he could have simply referenced a particular position, whichever one happens to be your favourite. The FES and most large alternative FE groups all have decent write-ups, so providing a link would have ended this argument very quickly.

I strongly suggest you will not be able to do that, and since your response to attempts at clarification is a lot of "nuh uh"-ing, there is clearly not much point in trying.

As I've pointed out many times before, I know RE'ers who struggle to tell the difference between velocity and acceleration. I don't strut around claiming that "RE'ers" fail at such simple concepts, and I'm sure you can imagine what everyone's reaction would be if I did. For some reason, yOuTuBeRs doing the same thing to us is met with your approval. It shouldn't be.

You've been here for long enough. You're familiar with the basics. If you're going to pretend that you're not, please do so outside of the FE boards.

But most in the FE community disagree and find it anathema.
You are misinformed, or deliberately misinforming (I strongly suspect the latter - you're not that horrendously incompetent, and your other arguments in this thread are very telling). There are some figures who find it particularly offensive. They are by no means the majority.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 10:38:03 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2020, 10:34:59 AM »
Since you specifically asked for a list of disagreements, here you are:

  • "Look out the window, it looks flat" - not a serious argument. An appeal to common sense is fairly standard on both sides of the debate, but you will not find anyone who's acting as if this was an important point
  • The "Pacman effect", a Facebook troll from a few years ago that got picked up by a couple of tabloids, similar to "Australia doesn't exist". A hallmark of not having done any research.
    • Bonus points: you extremely dishonestly linked to the "alternatives to UA" section, which lists a... conventional gravitational infinite-plane model. Nothing about "things just falling". Evidence of your desperate attempts to lie.
  • "Things just fall" - ah, good, a r/flatearth troll. What a fantastic idea, referencing a satirical subreddit that will slap you in the face and declare itself satire the moment you try taking it seriously. Excellent research, the author clearly paid attention.
  • "Magnets in the Earth" - this one doesn't even have a source, the author appears to have just made it up. Where you say you "couldn't find anything", you should probably consider that there was nothing to be found.

Of course, you knew all this. You even hinted at them yourself. You chose not to care, because you preferred to feign confusion. Disappointing.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 10:37:28 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 11:18:32 AM »
From what I’ve seen of FE’ers on YouTube they do say things like “gravity doesn’t exist”, “things just fall” “its density and buoyancy”. I can see a clear difference between youtubers and here but those people do exist and do make these kinds of claims. I think I’ve also seen at least two people here using the ‘look out the window’ argument multiple times, either they’re trolls or somehow being serious but one writes most of your wiki and the other who is very active here as a flat earther. It’s the dumbest argument to make but people make it. Hence why the zoomed in basketball meme exists.

As for the Pac-Man thing, people believe it. I see iampcp in these forums taking the Pac-Man stance in almost every post he makes. Again unless he is also just trolling, these points are made regularly.

I’m not sure why that YouTube channel felt the need to cover flat earth but it seems they chose to make it easy to understand the general basics of what flat earthers believe, even if the video had a condescending tone and intentionally making it out like the mum was a nut job. I don’t see why they felt the need to make a hit piece but I don’t think they were trying to misrepresent flat earthers so much as make over simplified general points.

Also the reason no flat earther will agree with the videos representation of flat earth in it’s entirety is because no flat earther has a solid model of a flat earth, no flat earth model seems to fit reality in it’s entirety and so fragments of different flat earth models are used by different people, no one model is complete and it almost seems like everyone believes in a mash of them all or ignores the obviously glaring problems of just the one. It’s basically impossible to pin down the beliefs of one flat earther and make an argument for all the common points. Again though this isn’t to say the YouTube video was fine, I don’t think they should have bothered making a video at all.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 11:26:41 AM »
As for the Pac-Man thing, people believe it. I see iampcp in these forums taking the Pac-Man stance in almost every post he makes
He seems pretty clear about this not being the case: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=15083.msg196257#msg196257

Interestingly enough, this one also looks like one of stack's fabrications. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Indeed, every post of him that I've found using any spelling of "pac man" I could think of makes it extremely clear that he's mentioning hypotheses, and not something he believes.

From what I’ve seen of FE’ers on YouTube they do say things like “gravity doesn’t exist”, “things just fall” “its density and buoyancy”.
So those are three distinct idea you've just listed to support the claim that one of them is a sensible introduction. Seems counter-productive.

I don’t see why they felt the need to make a hit piece but I don’t think they were trying to misrepresent flat earthers so much as make over simplified general points.
Perhaps. Tom's criticism is that the author didn't bother to do his research, not that he was trying to deliberately mislead. My claim is that stack was trying to deliberately mislead, and I feel that the examples I've brought up are the smoking gun.

It’s basically impossible to pin down the beliefs of one flat earther and make an argument for all the common points.
Hence my suggestion. Pick a write-up, cite it, and debunk away. Then you can say you're criticising the Flat Earth Society, or Globebusters, or jeranism, or Ben Long, or Stacey McStationary, or IFERS, or whichever documented model you've chosen. Picking the arguments you dislike the most from various positions (including obvious satire) and calling it a debunk of "Flat Earthers" will be deeply unconvincing. Indeed, in the past these sort of videos helped us gain followers who picked up on the obvious bs and chose to look into the subject more.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 11:33:11 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2020, 06:55:54 PM »


A highly polished hit piece. The irony being, that it will only fuel flat earth theory.  :D

It's a real shame that people put so much work into the presentation but so little work into the research..

Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2020, 11:38:08 PM »


A highly polished hit piece. The irony being, that it will only fuel flat earth theory.  :D

It's a real shame that people put so much work into the presentation but so little work into the research..
honestly I could say the same about some people...

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Offline junker

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Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2020, 12:09:11 AM »
honestly I could say the same about some people...

Please don't bump threads in the upper fora if you aren't going to add anything useful.

Re: Trending on youtube front page
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2020, 01:01:25 AM »
honestly I could say the same about some people...

Please don't bump threads in the upper fora if you aren't going to add anything useful.
ok, sorry!