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Offline stack

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2020, 12:38:11 AM »
Now, these, here, can't possibly exist.

These are Moon-blooming flowers. Yep, they ONLY bloom in moonlight.

Incorrect, they only bloom at night, regardless of whether moonlight is present or not.

"These plants have evolved over millions of years to be timed with the night/day cycle to open only in the night. They do this because night-flying insects mostly pollinate them. One such insect is the hawk moth. The flowers are sensitive to small changes in light so that they are open when these insects are out in the evening."
https://askabiologist.asu.edu/questions/what-are-moon-flowers-and-why-do-they-bloom-only-night
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2020, 01:14:33 AM »
Storm

One single shot that tells us that the seas are Not Flat. Shall I tell you why, or are you going to ignore it and post something else entirely different in an effort to derail the narrative?

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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2020, 01:24:24 AM »
Most people don't understand what is significant about these images of sunlight from behind clouds...



These images prove multiple 'observable' facts about our sun.

1. They show, beyond any shadow of a doubt, how close our sun is to us.

These first 3 images show the sun rays pointing right back to their undeniable source. This shows us exactly where the sun is and gives us a rough idea of its size. Believed to be approximately 35 miles in diameter.




2. They show how much smaller our sun is than science would have us believe.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction. Light doesn't refract uniformly like this with all rays not only lining up perfectly side by side, but also gradually spreading out perfectly like a fan. That's just not how refraction works.



3. And this image shows us that the earth and all bodies of water are 'Flat' due to the reflection of the sunlight coming right up to the observer. If the earth were curved, at all, this image would be impossible, but you can see it, here in this image, or you can observe it empirically in-person next time you are near a body of water on a sunny day.


"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2020, 09:31:43 AM »
Yup, it's the old switcheroony.

T asks about X
S shows Y

T asks about A and B
S shows C

The title of the thread, Storm - "discuss if you dare". Simple politeness, I would have thought, dictates that since I asked first ....
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Seemom

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2020, 02:36:04 PM »
Quote
If you were on a sphere, the horizon line would appear to drop, or appear lower in YOUR view, as your altitude increased.


You mean kind of like how it drops in this video? These measurements were take at Williams Reset by The Maine Surveyor, a professional geodetic surveyor. The method used was developed by Al Biruni hundreds of years ago to determine the radius of the earth by measuring the angular drop to the horizon and is still in use today.

Coordinates: 43° 37′ 26.52402″ N, 070° 12′ 37.43712″ W

Elevation: 21.986 meters

Note that there are two views, one at 90 degrees, one at 270 degrees.  These two measurements are to negate the effect of any collimation errors.  The final image has field notes and calculations from The Maine Surveyor.  A total of 20 measurements were taken, 10 for each face of the theodolite.  By averaging equal numbers of measurements from each face collimation errors are eliminated. The measured drop is 7′ 39″ with a standard deviation of +/- 3 arcseconds.










Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2020, 05:10:14 PM »
Ok, Fellow Flat Earthers. Welcome back.

Today we're discussing why Mt. Everest cannot be seen from Indonesia with the naked eye;

and we're also discussing the Pole Star (Polaris) and the constellations.

So, the Pole Star, or Polaris, (the North Star) is pretty easy to find in the night sky, especially if the Big Dipper is visible. It is the top-most star in the handle of the Little Dipper.

First locate the Big Dipper, if possible.



Good. Now, imagine a line from the front of the ladle, or the dipper, that is roughly 5 times the length of the front of the ladle bowl, if you will.

Like this...





And there you have it. The North Star.

This is the star that wayfarers have used to navigate for thousands of years. It has always been in the northern sky, it has never moved, and never, ever moves--to this very day.

Find a place in your yard, or near your home, where u can see it clearly. Use an additional landmark, like the edge, or corner, of a roof top or other stationary object (light pole, large tree branch) that will never move and stand in a position so that the landmark will be very near that star in your view. Now, remember the exact spot you are standing and repeat this observation every time you think of it for years to come. This will create an indelible understanding of the permanent position of this star in relation to the Earth. This fact is extremely important to understanding much of the Flat Earth Theory and related concepts.

How so? Well, Modern Science would have you believe that this star is not only permanently 'fastened' in space, in perfect alignment with the center axis of the Earth...



...but that it ALSO mirrors 'all' of the Earth's movements through the Solar System. As it spins on its axis,...



...as well as throughout its entire 186 MILLION mile diameter rotation around the sun.

Hmmm...."How is this possible," you say "when we've all been taught that the Big Bang sent every single body in space into an outward trajectory from the center of the original explosion, causing all planets AND stars to forever expand outwardly away from eachother?"

Well, my friend,....it is NOT possible. Not in the least.

This also doesn't take into account the 'alleged' swirling spin of our Milky Way galaxy AND our galaxie's trajectory through ENDLESS space.



Absolutely impossible for the North Star (Polaris) to remain in perfect alignment with the Earth and to mirror all the Earth's movements through space with all these other dynamics taking place simultaneously.

What does this prove? At the very minimum, this proves that Science has not informed the world of the Truth of these matters. And that the traditional concepts of the Earth, and its relationship to the stars, are undeniably flawed.

Just for starters....
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2020, 05:12:27 PM »
Most people don't understand what is significant about these images of sunlight from behind clouds...



These images prove multiple 'observable' facts about our sun.

1. They show, beyond any shadow of a doubt, how close our sun is to us.


I agree that this image suggests that the sun is closer to us. I would say it's evidence, not a "FACT"



2. They show how much smaller our sun is than science would have us believe.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction. Light doesn't refract uniformly like this with all rays not only lining up perfectly side by side, but also gradually spreading out perfectly like a fan. That's just not how refraction works.



I agree with this. This image does present evidence that appears to suggest the sun might be small. The problem is that, in this picture, it also looks like the sun is further away than it did in the first picture. In addition you really can't see the sun because it's behind cloudds.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 05:15:38 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2020, 05:24:53 PM »
Ok, Fellow Flat Earthers. Welcome back.

Today we're discussing why Mt. Everest cannot be seen from Indonesia with the naked eye;

So are you done with yesterday's discussion, where you jumped in to try and tell everyone about how their eyes work, but gish-galloped to other stuff when I took issue with it?

Simple Yes or No, please, so's I know whether or not to try and continue from where we left off...
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2020, 05:33:54 PM »
Now, let's discuss how the Constellations relate to Mt. Everest and Indonesia.

From both of those locations, you can see the Constellations in the night sky. They are as beautiful as ever.

All the Constellations have been observed in the night sky for thousands of years by men all over our Flat Earth. There is no record whatsoever of any of the Constellations changing in any way. None have lost a star, none have changed shape. All are still just as they were when they were first observed and noted in history.



Wait a minute......  :o

How is that possible?? I know for a FACT that I was taught in school that the Universe began with a Big Bang...



...sending all matter exploding outward throughout space.



 ALL bodies in the cosmos are supposed to be constantly spreading further and further from eachother, right??

If THAT were they case, how could all those perfectly situated star patterns stay EXACTLY the same for THOUSANDS of years, without changing in the least?

AND... how could they possibly look exactly the same, no matter where you are on the Earth, when you consider all of the movements of the Earth and all bodies in space??



Quite simply,.....they can't.
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline Seemom

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2020, 06:14:38 PM »
Quote
AND... how could they possibly look exactly the same, no matter where you are on the Earth, when you consider all of the movements of the Earth and all bodies in space??

The stars are in constant motion.  A star's motions through space relative to the Sun is called Proper Motion and was first noted by Edmund Halley in 1718 for three bright stars: Sirius, Aldebaran, and Arcturus, by comparing his measurements of their positions to those of Hipparchus of Rhodes (300BC). In all, it took 2000 years for the motions to build up to the point that they became measurable.  The largest proper motion recorded is Barnard's Star at 10.25 arcsec/yr. Typical proper motion is ~0.1 arcsec/year, which means after 1 year, star has moved 0.1 arcsec,  10 years, star has moved 0.1x10 = 1 arcsec and after 100 years, the star has moved 0.1x100 = 10 arcsec.

Since the smallest angle the eye can discern is a few arcminutes (1 arcmin = 60 arcsec), it can take many thousands of years for the constellations to noticeably change shape.

That's how.

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2020, 06:14:53 PM »
How is that possible?? I know for a FACT that I was taught in school that the Universe began with a Big Bang...

...sending all matter exploding outward throughout space.

The Big Bang is more like a "big inflation" or also "big flash". No "matter" existed at the beginning, but it started to form when, as the space was inflating, the average temperature went down. Also, it is unknown how any matter actually exists, and scientists speculate some form of asymmetry which favors matter versus anti-matter.

The Big Bang is a theory that comes from the cosmic background radiation, this can be received also on ground by very sensitive telescopes. As usual, it's "just a theory", but it puts together many astronomical observations and is currently accepted as the only one we have about our universe.

Most people don't understand what is significant about these images of sunlight from behind clouds...

These images prove multiple 'observable' facts about our sun.

1. They show, beyond any shadow of a doubt, how close our sun is to us.


Still I cannot understand how many images of crepuscular rays show them parallel.

Quote from: Pete Svarrior
these waves of smug RE'ers are temporary. Every now and then they flood us for a year or two in response to some media attention, and eventually they peter out. In my view, it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2020, 06:34:12 PM »
Quite simply,.....they can't.

Says who? You?

Again, why should we take you at your word on this, when all you have to offer is textbook graphics and disbelief?

Also, the distance to the stars needs to be taken into account; if you take a piece of paper, and draw a one-inch diameter circle on it, and presume that circle to represent the Earth going around the Sun, then the Big Dipper, the constellation containing our Pole Star, is generally speaking (for the stars within are not all at the same distance from us), at that scale, would be 2000 miles above the piece of paper.  In actuality, 340,982,000,000,000 miles or so.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 07:27:32 PM by Tumeni »
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2020, 07:49:22 PM »
The size of the Moon is known from visual triangulation from Earth, and from 50+ years of sending craft to and around it.

We know the distance to the Moon from laser ranging, and from 50+ years of sending craft to and around it.

We know that the Sun must be farther than the Moon by virtue of solar eclipses. 
We know the Sun must be farther than Mercury and Venus when they pass between us and the Sun (when they transit the Sun)
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2020, 11:19:46 PM »
Sorry to go back on this material but this really deserves a response. To start, just because you don't understand something and feel like it's impossible doesn't mean that that something isn't true to reality. To help you understand reality, I've posted a picture below and a brief description of what's happening.

Essentially, the distances we are working with here are massive. it's over 300 light years to get to Polaris, and our solar system scale is on the scale of only a few billion miles. It takes 4 hours for light to hit Pluto from the sun. Mathematically, we can compare our models by measuring the rate of change of the hypotenuse that connects two legs of a triangle. The legs represent our displacement through the universe and the distance between us and Polaris. Of course Polaris moves too, but this is also a minuscule amount.



Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2020, 02:17:50 PM »

I'm still waiting for ONE SINGLE Flat Earther to show up here on the 'so-called' Flat Earth Society Chat Forum.
Four pages of discussion, about a dozen different individuals chiming in, give or take; exactly ZERO Flat Earthers here besides myself. That is shameful. This Forum is a total DECOY. Just like modern mainstream churches. Attract believers, and those with a desire to learn, and then mock them and correct them relentlessly to stomp out and DASH their Faith.

Fortunately for me, I'm completely immune to all that squawk-back. You know who else was immune to nay-sayers? The brilliant Albert Einstein and Nikola Tesla.

Einstein was once asked how it felt to be the smartest man alive. Einstein's reply was:

"I don't know, you'll have to ask Nikola Tesla."
(-Albert Einstein)

After failing repeatedly to prove any motion of the Earth, Einstein announced:

"I have come to believe that the motion of the earth
cannot be detected by any optical experiment."
(-Albert Einstein Kyoto University, Japan Dec.14, 1922)

His point being that the only way to prove the movement of the Earth would have to be through mathematical equations. No empirical experiment could prove it.

To which Tesla stated:

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments,
and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually
build a structure which has no relation to reality."
(-Nikola Tesla)

The concepts of the dynamics of outer space, gravity and the relations of all bodies in our solar system are largely explained, and understood, by Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Tesla had something to say about that over a hundred years ago.

"Einstein's Relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb
which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying
errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant
people take for a king...its exponents are brilliant men, but they're
metaphysicists rather than scientists."
(-Nikola Tesla)

{Metaphysics definition - abstract theory with no basis in reality}

It's interesting when you note how often people have pointed out how dumb people USED TO BE when they believed the Earth was Flat.

T.S. Eliot said:

"We shall not cease from exploration...and the end of all our
exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place
for the first time."

I can promise you...nobody 'chooses' to believe in the Flat Earth.
They only seek to find the Truth, whatever form it may take.
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2020, 04:15:05 PM »
Did you know that Nikola Tesla believed in the Flat Earth?

His work proves it.

He intended to send electricity throughout the entire world, for all to use freely, by building a giant Tesla Coil that would send electricity out in all directions to the very ends of the Earth.



His intentions were genuine, but the powers that be, at that time-like today, would never allow that to be. After building a 200 foot tall tower for this to begin, he was bankrupted by his investors and his tower was eventually torn down to its very foundation, in hopes that the entire idea could be destroyed and buried.

How could this be possible on a round Earth? Wouldn't the electricity, which is also radio waves, just fly off into space before it could reach the other angles of the Earth? After all, it all travels in a straight line.

Well, science claims that we can send these signals around the world by bouncing them off the ionosphere, but....then how would these work?



Umm...yeah. These are Radio Telescopes used for the 'ALLEGED' purpose of sending Radio waves into deep space. How would all these Radio telescopes work if they just bounce off the ionosphere? And even if they DID get out into space by use of higher frequency waves and traveled out even a single light year and bounced off something solid, how could they return all that distance and still have the same intensity needed to penetrate the ionosphere and return to the dish?

Well, they CAN send signals to any part of the Earth, but not by bouncing them off the ionosphere. They're relegated to using the old Firmament that they don't want you to know about.



The Firmament is also responsible for reflecting the sun's rays to create these in very moist air.



Ever wonder how they get their perfectly rounded shape?

By utilizing the Firmament, the notorious HAARP arrays, which are situated in multiple locations on the Earth, are capable of sending devastating energy to any point on the Earth.



HAARP technology was created by Tesla.

Referred to by Tesla as the Death Ray, HAARP is capable of being used as a very powerful weapon to reach any point on the Earth. Today, it is mostly utilized to control the weather. That's why we've had such strange and destructive weather for the past 30 years.

-----------------------------------

Yes, folks. Tesla knew all about the Firmament. His many experiments into the dynamics of electricity and how it traveled, how far it traveled, etc., no doubt taught him all about the shape and dimensions of the Firmament and confirmed God's wonderful creation spoken of in the Bible.

So, there you have it. Tesla knew all about the Flat Earth and how to utilize the Firmament to do great things for mankind. Unfortunately, this world belongs to those whose greed for power and control will never allow righteousness and Truth to flourish for the good of all mankind.
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2020, 05:30:16 PM »
Check out (54:45) and (55:58) in this video.

This is exactly what I was describing in post (Reply #43) on page 3 of this thread.


[/video]<iframe width="525" height="289" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video]

From post (reply #43) by Storm

It has been proven many times that if you take a very powerful optic and look at the horizon you will see objects that were previously invisible to the naked eye. Objects that 'appeared' to move down behind the curvature of the Earth come into plain view, proving they were there all along.

Mt. Everest is approximately 3300 miles from the area of Indonesia that you are referring to. The portion of it that you would be able to see over all the geographic obstructions between it and Indonesia is about 3 miles wide. If you were to use a telescopic device powerful enough to see that far, you would see it. So when you consider the size of that target, its distance from the observer and the limitations of your human eyes, you have your answer.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 05:57:58 PM by Storm »
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2020, 05:30:52 PM »
The horizon is always at eye-level no matter how you orient your body or where you are in space; on/near the ground or high in the sky. This fact, alone, is one of the rock-solid proofs of Flat Earth.

Except it’s not a fact. The horizon dips below eye level at altitude. Not a huge amount, maybe not noticeably at normal altitudes but certainly measurable:



Quote
It has been proven many times that if you take a very powerful optic and look at the horizon you will see objects that were previously invisible to the naked eye. Objects that 'appeared' to move down behind the curvature of the Earth come into plain view, proving they were there all along.

Clearly if small things are far enough away that we can’t see them then optical zoom can make them visible again.

If something has truly gone over the curve of the earth though then no amount of zoom is going to restore it


If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2020, 05:38:20 PM »
Most people don't understand what is significant about these images of sunlight from behind clouds...



These images prove multiple 'observable' facts about our sun.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction.

I’m not going to tell you that. You’re right, it’s not refraction. It’s perspective. Here:

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2020, 06:02:48 PM »
The video only shows what those parallel tubes look like when in close proximity. If the camera was half a mile away from those parallel tubes they would be straight and parallel to each other.

Since we can observe the same effect in the sky miles away, with non-parallel rays, we see evidence that the rays are not parallel.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy