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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2014, 03:48:25 AM »
Most first world nations don't have a lot of space. And in any case, saving any space rather than destroying and fracturing habitats is always beneficial.

Your definition of first world nation must differ from mine then, because as I see it all of them have loads of empty space.

Directional panels are very vulnerable to wind, and can be damaged by high winds.

Solar panels that sit flat on the roof will usually cause that part of the roof to rise a little bit above the rest of the roof. This can lead to these panels being blown off in high winds.

I'm not inherently worried about hurricanes hitting solar farms, since they tend not to be near the coast.


Many private solar panels are in situations such as being placed on someone's roof. However, when there's an issue with the panel, people will either not realize it, or improperly try to fix it themselves, rather than hire a professional. The same phenomenon can be seen when comparing septic tanks to centralized treatment plants. When these utilities are decentralized, the level of professional maintenance is decreased, which causes issues in the functioning of the item. However the centralized treatment plants are much more able to employ dedicated professionals to deal with maintinence.

The same goes for solar roads. They will be centralized, government-controlled source of productions of solar energy. Therefore, these roads will likely be better maintenance than decentralized, private panels.

If the government is doing it, you can be guaranteed the maintenance will be even worse. I should know, I work for them.


You had to subtract the costs of asphalt placement and removal and maintinence. You also have to subtract the costs of the solar panels that would otherwise be used to produce this power. Centralized production in cases like these will often be much more efficient than decentralized solar energy production.

Centralized solutions to large problems should always be avoided.

They said TVs were awful ideas. Look where we are now.

Who is this "they" person and why is their opinion relevant?

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2014, 03:55:34 AM »
Most first world nations don't have a lot of space. And in any case, saving any space rather than destroying and fracturing habitats is always beneficial.
Your definition of first world nation must differ from mine then, because as I see it all of them have loads of empty space.
That's odd.  First world nations aren't up for debate. The blue are first world nations. The USA, Canada, Greenland, and Australia are the only ones with "loads of space" depending on how you define the quantifier "loads".

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 03:58:29 AM by rooster »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2014, 03:57:24 AM »
That's odd. First world nations aren't up for debate. The blue are first world nations. The USA, Canada, Greenland, and Australia are the only ones with "loads of space" depending on how you define the quantifier "loads".

Europe also has rather huge swathes of low population density (i.e. empty space). You'd be amazed at how much of a country's population is packed into tiny spaces.




The only country with a problem seems to be Germany.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 04:00:37 AM by Irushwithscvs »

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2014, 04:05:05 AM »
You're leaving out a few densely populated countries there: England, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, and Poland. Honestly, that looks pretty crowded to me except for Spain, Russia, and the northern countries. And you're leaving out the other first world nations that are not in Europe.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 04:16:53 AM »
You're leaving out a few densely populated countries there: England, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, and Poland. Honestly, that looks pretty crowded to me except for Spain, Russia, and the northern countries.

Anything that isn't red is room for solar panels, and there is a lot of it.

And you're leaving out the other first world nations that are not in Europe.

You mean all the ones with vast areas of empty space? Which first world country doesn't have any space at all?


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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2014, 04:24:35 AM »
You mean all the ones with vast areas of empty space? Which first world country doesn't have any space at all?
Ooh, so your definition of "loads of space" just means any empty space at all. That makes more sense now.

But this doesn't even really matter sense saving space wasn't even one of the big beneficial factors.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2014, 04:30:21 AM »
Ooh, so your definition of "loads of space" just means any empty space at all. That makes more sense now.

Well it was really just defined as the ability to place solar farms. Seeing as how there is no first world country that has ever said "we have no places to put things anymore!" it was never an issue.

But this doesn't even really matter sense saving space wasn't even one of the big beneficial factors.

Then why of all the points I made you picked this one to attack?

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2014, 04:47:19 AM »
Then why of all the points I made you picked this one to attack?
I had to look back at why you were even arguing about saving space.

Solar roadways are not just for energy, did you watch the video?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2014, 04:49:10 AM »
I had to look back at why you were even arguing about saving space.

Solar roadways are not just for energy, did you watch the video?

I read all of the relevant material a few months back when Dave posted this exact same thing and I still think it is a terrible idea.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2014, 04:55:12 AM »
I had to look back at why you were even arguing about saving space.

Solar roadways are not just for energy, did you watch the video?

I read all of the relevant material a few months back when Dave posted this exact same thing and I still think it is a terrible idea.
I don't know what he posted but this may have more information. And so far you haven't really said anything as to why you think it's a terrible idea. If you think it's just a novelty that won't catch on that's a bit different than it being a terrible idea.

Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2014, 05:21:30 AM »
Quote
Your definition of first world nation must differ from mine then, because as I see it all of them have loads of empty space.

Rooster already demonstrated the issues of this statement. Most first world countries have little amounts of open space, and the little that is left is preserved land.

Quote
I'm not inherently worried about hurricanes hitting solar farms, since they tend not to be near the coast.

That's rather naive, high-wind events can occur in many situations, including, but not limited to, hurricanes.

Quote
If the government is doing it, you can be guaranteed the maintenance will be even worse.

From what i've studied, government maintenance is consistently superior to individual private maintenance in all areas.

Quote
I should know, I work for them.

Irrelevant.

Quote
Centralized solutions to large problems should always be avoided.

Centralized solutions are consistently superior to decentralized solutions.

Quote
Who is this "they" person and why is their opinion relevant?

They is a multidimensional being that is almost always correct.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2014, 06:45:42 AM »
It seems to me that, if you want to create electricity by having light penetrate a clear surface, the last thing you would want is for it to have cars drive over/on it.  Rubber is not transparent, and dirty oil is not either.  Not to mention the scratches from little rocks imbedded in the tires.  Plus, the panel does not make electricity when a car is directly over it.  This seems like the dumbest idea I have seen in a while.  Why don't they put put the panels a couple of meters in the air along side the roads?  This would make more sense. 

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Offline Vongeo

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2014, 07:38:18 AM »
Unless they sell like apple products or the brand new soda targeted at trendy teens, popularity probably won't take off.

People aren't even putting solar panels on roofs yet popularly.
Maple syrup was a kind of candy, made from the blood of trees.

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2014, 07:46:12 AM »
I was thinking exactly what jroa said. How will soral panel roads be protected from the very thing theyre made for? It will be like driving on a thin sheet of glass...

Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2014, 01:01:37 PM »
It seems to me that, if you want to create electricity by having light penetrate a clear surface, the last thing you would want is for it to have cars drive over/on it.  Rubber is not transparent, and dirty oil is not either.  Not to mention the scratches from little rocks imbedded in the tires.  Plus, the panel does not make electricity when a car is directly over it.  This seems like the dumbest idea I have seen in a while.  Why don't they put put the panels a couple of meters in the air along side the roads?  This would make more sense.
While the efficiency is reduced its balanced out by the volume. 

As for the rubber and oil, how often do cars leave rubber trails?  And how often do they leak oil?
Add to that glass which isn't as permiable as asphalt and normal rain may take care of the problem.  But that's something the prototype will help answer.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2014, 02:56:49 PM »
Rooster already demonstrated the issues of this statement. Most first world countries have little amounts of open space, and the little that is left is preserved land.

Did you even read that little bout she had? All she did was show the opposite to be true, that every country on the planet has a lot of free space.

That's rather naive, high-wind events can occur in many situations, including, but not limited to, hurricanes.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about winds high enough to tear off solar panels. Those are only present in hurricanes.

From what i've studied, government maintenance is consistently superior to individual private maintenance in all areas.

And you actually called me the naive one. Wow.

Centralized solutions are consistently superior to decentralized solutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2014, 03:15:37 PM »
It seems to me that, if you want to create electricity by having light penetrate a clear surface, the last thing you would want is for it to have cars drive over/on it.  Rubber is not transparent, and dirty oil is not either.  Not to mention the scratches from little rocks imbedded in the tires.  Plus, the panel does not make electricity when a car is directly over it.  This seems like the dumbest idea I have seen in a while.  Why don't they put put the panels a couple of meters in the air along side the roads?  This would make more sense. 
So you think there are cars covering all the roads all the time?

And the glass is not weak or thin. They've been through 2 rounds of testing and have exceeded all requirements concerning weight and traction.

Plus, it's their hope to have this on sidewalks, driveways, and as sport courts in parks.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 03:17:49 PM by rooster »

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Offline jroa

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2014, 06:04:40 PM »
As for the rubber and oil, how often do cars leave rubber trails?  And how often do they leak oil?
Add to that glass which isn't as permiable as asphalt and normal rain may take care of the problem.  But that's something the prototype will help answer.

Car tires constantly shed rubber.  It's what happends when a thing like friction occurs.  That is why tires wear out.  Or did you think that tires wear due to evaporation? 

Also, no matter how well engineered a car is, it will inevitably have a little less oil when you take it to have the oil changed than it did when the oil was topped off last time.  Where do you think this oil went?  I have not even mentioned soot from the exhaust pipe. 

In addition, you have natural dirt, such as mud and dust.  How long do you think that the road will stay clean?

So you think there are cars covering all the roads all the time?

And the glass is not weak or thin. They've been through 2 rounds of testing and have exceeded all requirements concerning weight and traction.

Plus, it's their hope to have this on sidewalks, driveways, and as sport courts in parks.

Cars do not cover roads all the time.  However, if it is a semi-busy road, then there should be less than two seconds between cars.  So, let's just say any spot on a road has a car on it 1/3 of the time.  Would it not be 33% more efficient to have the panel above the cars? 

The glass being strong or weak really has nothing to do with this.  Glass will eventually be scrached, reducing the efficientcy.  Are you suggesting that they have magical glass that never scratches? 

This all sounds like a scam.  It sounds like these people are trying to make money off of a pipe dream, fed by green hopes.   

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Offline jroa

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2014, 06:09:39 PM »
While the efficiency is reduced its balanced out by the volume. 

Do you even understand what efficiency is?  You are basically saying that an engine that is 90% efficient is equally efficient as 9 engines that are 10% efficient.  Have you ever had a math or science class that discussed the meaning of efficiency?  Serious question here. 

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Offline rooster

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Re: Solar Roadways
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2014, 06:18:43 PM »
Cars do not cover roads all the time.  However, if it is a semi-busy road, then there should be less than two seconds between cars.  So, let's just say any spot on a road has a car on it 1/3 of the time.  Would it not be 33% more efficient to have the panel above the cars? 

The glass being strong or weak really has nothing to do with this.  Glass will eventually be scrached, reducing the efficientcy.  Are you suggesting that they have magical glass that never scratches? 

This all sounds like a scam.  It sounds like these people are trying to make money off of a pipe dream, fed by green hopes.   
It seems like you didn't watch the video either. If all cement and asphalt are replaced by solar panels then you don't even have to worry about the busy roads since there is more than enough sidewalks, driveways, and parking lots that are not being covered by cars to make up for the busy ones. And it's not just about the energy. There are benefits to these solar panels being placed specifically underneath cars.

If a panel gets damaged it is easily and quickly replaced. I'm sure you know what happens when a road gets damaged. Construction crews have to come out and clog up traffic for extended periods of time just to strip and repave the road.

And it's not a scam, "Solar Roadways has received two phases of funding from the U.S. Federal Highway Administration for research and development of a paving system that will pay for itself over its lifespan." This pipe dream is just to get the first prototype parking lot which they inevitably will get.