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Offline junker

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junker reascends to the master race
« on: December 11, 2019, 09:57:32 PM »
i5 9600K
RTX 2070 Super
32GB DDR4 2666
1TB PCIe NVMe M.2
27" 1440p 144 Hz monitor

Now I can almost play scam shitizen properly.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 10:25:11 PM »
post pics btw

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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 10:38:47 PM »
post pics btw

it looks like a dell g5 desktop and their 27" gaming monitor

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 11:38:42 PM »
I feel like Junker is going to be rather short of threads whilst playing games in the future.

I struggle to see the sense in a 6/6 9600K when a Ryzen 3600 gives you 6/12 and Intel themselves will be giving you 6/12 on the i5 if you had only waited a little bit longer.



Think of all those poor sons of bitches that bought the i7-7700k thinking it was the best processor for gaming on earth ... to find in under 3 years its not even as good as 10th Gen i3s. Junker is going to be one of these people with his nerfed 9600k. It costs Intel nothing to turn on hyper threading ... nothing. But they wouldn't give it to you.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 11:42:34 PM »
It costs Intel nothing to turn on hyper threading ... nothing. But they wouldn't give it to you.
HT is usually a bad idea, although of course your mileage will vary with workload. If this is the first you've heard of this, I'd suggest you at least try disabling it and compare your results.
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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 11:52:24 PM »
I feel like Junker is going to be rather short of threads whilst playing games in the future.

I struggle to see the sense in a 6/6 9600K when a Ryzen 3600 gives you 6/12 and Intel themselves will be giving you 6/12 on the i5 if you had only waited a little bit longer.

SMT doesn't help with gaming. The 9600K outperforms nearly all Ryzen 3 CPUs at stock speeds on 1,2, and 4 core performance (single core being something that actually matters), and surpasses even the Threadripper 3960X when overclocked (not that I can or will be overclocking). All that said, I still wanted to go AMD, but this was the best bang for my buck.

Find a new slant, Thork.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 12:18:36 AM »
It costs Intel nothing to turn on hyper threading ... nothing. But they wouldn't give it to you.
HT is usually a bad idea, although of course your mileage will vary with workload. If this is the first you've heard of this, I'd suggest you at least try disabling it and compare your results.

Ok, lets back up a bit.

SMT is not a bad idea. Intel's version 'hyperthreading' is also not a 'bad idea'. Intel's problem is that it left their chips vulnerable to Spectre, Meltdown and Foreshadow. The fix they applied ruined performance. But that's an Intel problem. I really have no idea why anyone would buy Intel on a mainstream desktop right now when Ryzen offers so much more bang for buck. The only chip in Intel's line-up that makes any sense at all is the i9-9900k as the fastest gaming chip on earth. But it really doesn't have much of a lead over the 3950X.

Please note that intel's i9-9900KS that is touted at the fastest gaming chip on the face of the earth (interesting phrase that huh, face of the earth, suggests flatness), is 8/16. It isn't hampered by 16 threads at all.

Just watch the first minute of the link below. The 2600X which I bought my nephew vs the 8600K which is more or less the same as the 9600k.


The instant you want to do anything as well as gaming like maybe streaming ... the 9600K is going to grind to a halt. That's not a problem that is going to get better with age and newer more demanding softwares. And it cost so much more than the 3600 and its motherboard. And you can't upgrade intel like you can with AM4.

I don't get it. 9600K is a weird choice right now.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 12:21:26 AM by Baby Thork »
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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 12:26:19 AM »
I don't get it. 9600K is a weird choice right now.

Not if all I am planning to do is play games... I am not streaming, it isn't a digital audio workstation, or a rendering workstation. Just games. Even the 9900K is only around ~5% faster in things that actually matter for gaming compared to the 9600K, and the 9600K is still better than anything Ryzen has for gaming.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2019, 12:35:56 AM »
I don't get it. 9600K is a weird choice right now.

Not if all I am planning to do is play games... I am not streaming, it isn't a digital audio workstation, or a rendering workstation. Just games. Even the 9900K is only around ~5% faster in things that actually matter for gaming compared to the 9600K, and the 9600K is still better than anything Ryzen has for gaming.

Lets be honest ... at 1440p you'll be GPU bound anyway. Not CPU. There is no way you'd tell the difference between Ryzen 3600 and 9600K in games ... today. But anything else that uses multicore, your 9600K will be left wanting.



Look how close all those numbers are. You'd never tell in the real world ... but you spent more to get half as many threads. I dispute that 9600k is better than anything Ryzen has for gaming. Same price point is same performance. Also, I'm so over 14nm++++++++++  ::)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 12:55:54 AM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 06:38:36 AM »
To be clear, while you are correct about HT being a security nightmare and the mitigations deteriorating performance further, I was talking about performance much more generally. The issue dates back to the inception of HT nothing to do with the recent vuln mitigations. Once again, I recommend you give it a try. If you don't want to, hey-ho. It's your own milliseconds you're wasting ;)
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Offline Пардисфла

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2019, 06:39:47 AM »
SMT is not a bad idea.

As usual, sweeping generalisations are worse than useless. SMT is not a bad idea in principle, but most software is not designed to take advantage of its shared L1 cache, which means that leaving it enabled often makes things slower, not faster. Two unrelated tasks running on the same core means less cache for each.

Intel's version 'hyperthreading' is also not a 'bad idea'. Intel's problem is that it left their chips vulnerable to Spectre, Meltdown and Foreshadow. The fix they applied ruined performance. But that's an Intel problem.

Where do I begin?

First of all, at least some variants of Spectre affect AMD as well. But that's actually not very relevant here because none of these CPU bugs are specifically about SMT. SMT makes them easier to exploit in some cases due to shared cache, but the bugs are fundamentally about speculative execution and cache side-channel attacks.

Turning off SMT will not turn off either of these things, it will only eliminate the possibility of leaking secrets between threads via the L1 cache, making some exploits more difficult and some mitigations more effective. Notably, it does not stop leaking secrets within a thread (hence mitigations like retpoline) or between cores via the L2 cache (an area of ongoing research).

I really have no idea why anyone would buy Intel on a mainstream desktop right now when Ryzen offers so much more bang for buck.

Someone's been drinking too much kool-aid...
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2019, 06:40:57 AM »
If you're spending that much you may as well have just gone with an RTX 2080 Super and an i9-9900k. I'm guessing this was an impulse buy?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 06:43:13 AM by Fortuna »

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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2019, 11:18:11 AM »
If you're spending that much you may as well have just gone with an RTX 2080 Super and an i9-9900k.
It was $1200 for the PC with discounts and including the extra RAM I ordered since I didn't want to pay Dell markup. Your suggested config would be over $2K

I'm guessing this was an impulse buy?
Not even remotely. I've been comparing rigs from major vendors and pricing out building myself for a while. The kind folks on IRC can attest it was anything but impulse and days of me agonizing over finding the best deal possible.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 02:48:24 PM »
It was $1200 for the PC with discounts and including the extra RAM I ordered since I didn't want to pay Dell markup.

I'm gonna call bullshit on this. That spec is not $1200 with Dell. Please link the product from Dell.

I'm up at over $1500 before you bought extra RAM and before sales tax on the spec you announced.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-desktop-computers/new-dell-g5-gaming-desktop/spd/g-series-5090-desktop/nd5090g520s?view=configurations&configurationid=3201a46b-cdc0-4928-a1e7-0b4d2c147cdf
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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2019, 04:47:01 PM »
I'm gonna call bullshit on this.
I can't help that you don't know how to shop for a good deal...


That spec is not $1200 with Dell. Please link the product from Dell.
Not if you upgrade the RAM and SSD through Dell, no. I also had discounts, like I mentioned. The one I configured is the 2nd G5 option that starts at $749.99. I can't link with discounts, but I will waste a few seconds uploading screenshots so you can keep shitting up my thread with more nonsensical responses.

Price:


Spec:


I then bought this RAM from newegg (now out of stock):
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232765?Item=N82E16820232765

And I bought this SSD from newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/sabrent-rocket-q-1tb/p/0D9-001Y-00024

For a grand total of $1226.32.


I'm up at over $1500 before you bought extra RAM and before sales tax on the spec you announced.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-desktop-computers/new-dell-g5-gaming-desktop/spd/g-series-5090-desktop/nd5090g520s?view=configurations&configurationid=3201a46b-cdc0-4928-a1e7-0b4d2c147cdf
Learn how to be a better shopper.



edit - inb4 thork is butthurt i didnt explicitly say i upgraded the ssd myself at the very beginning because i should be required to disclose all of the minutia of my purchase at the very beginning so he can nitpick as much as possible. then when he follows with something about tax, ill let him know how i negated most of that cost as well
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 04:54:50 PM by junker »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2019, 04:53:24 PM »
Technically it wasn’t $1200 you liar!!!

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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2019, 04:58:44 PM »
Technically it wasn’t $1200 you liar!!!

Very true. I am still lying more because I saved another $5 on my newegg purchase so it was $5 less than I just said but still over $1200.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2019, 05:03:19 PM »
minutiae*
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline junker

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2019, 05:03:58 PM »
minutiae*

Thanks, Pete. I am canceling my order now and getting a Ryzen because of this.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: junker reascends to the master race
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2019, 07:24:38 PM »
Congrats.  Dell was, last I checked, a good brand.

That being said, it will die in 5 years.