The view from my bedroom window
« on: December 11, 2019, 09:33:58 PM »
Hello beautiful people.. :)

I have an interesting question.. :)  This is my FIRST ever question to the flat earth community, so hopefully not a stupid one.

I have been a Flat Earther now for over 3 years... Once a flattie always a flattie, as they say :)

Anyway recently i moved house and country, and for the first time since i have been a flattie, i feel that I am in a position to test with only my own eyes the curvature or non-existent curvature of our beautiful flat earth. lol..

Ok so i live now on the coast of England. In wonderful Brighton, and I currently live in a tower block just by the sea.  My current altitude from 2 different apps if my telephone is correct is 24 - 26 meters  But other data i have found on google puts me at 22 meters or 6 stories high.  And from another app its calculated that I am 82 meters above sea level.

From my window i can see the LIGHT from a lighthouse in the north of France called "Gatteville Lighthouse" this lighthouse is 75 meters high, and from google they say its the 3rd highest traditional lighthouse in the world.  I cannot find any information if the 75 meters is it’s height above sea level.

So from my calculations i am 148 KM approximately from my bedroom window to the lighthouse.

So my question is??????

Should I be able to see this light house like I do if the earth is round with curvature??

Anyway like I said this could be a very stupid question.. but then again I really don’t care..

As they say once a flattie always a flattie. :)

With peace and LOVE

Natasha :)

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 01:08:06 AM »
How did you know that I am beautiful? I mean, I am beautiful but most people on the internet are not and that's why they hide on the internet and use avatars.

Anyhoo, The biggest issue you will run into is visibility. It is impossible to see 148km through the air. There is too much moisture in it, and too many teeny particles of dust and dirt. This is why things far away start to look bluish.

In Aviation they measure up to 10km visibility. That's a very clear day. The idea of seeing 148km is a bit of a stretch I'm afraid.

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 11:55:00 AM »
Hmm. While I doubt you'd see a lighthouse at 148km - curve or no curve - you can certainly see more than 10km on a clear day.
From Snaefell on the Isle of Man, for example, you can on a clear day see the "Six Kingdoms"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snaefell

The furthest of those is 156km away.
You can't see them at sea level, I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to think why that might be...!
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 12:12:29 PM »
OP states outright that they can see the light from the lighthouse.

FE steps in to say "You can't see (things) that far"

But the OP is not necessarily seeing the lighthouse. They state they are seeing the light from it.

"It is impossible to see 148km through the air."

I can see the Moon during the day. That's further than 148km. That's through "the air"
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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 12:13:41 PM »
From Snaefell on the Isle of Man, for example, you can on a clear day see the "Six Kingdoms"
I don't think being able to see Ireland from a mountain the Isle of Man is quite as remarkable as seeing an individual lighthouse would be.

OP states outright that they can see the light from the lighthouse.
You are literally the only person who's struggling to understand the OP. OP is asking why she can see light from the lighthouse, but not the lighthouse itself, and whether she should expect to see what she's seeing if the Earth were round. Repeatedly stating that the lighthouse is not the same thing as the light really doesn't help here.

I can see the Moon during the day. That's further than 148km. That's through "the air"
I've tried asking nicely. Have a warning and stop shitting up upper fora threads.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 12:18:10 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2019, 12:33:00 PM »
From my window i can see the LIGHT from a lighthouse in the north of France called "Gatteville Lighthouse" this lighthouse is 75 meters high, and from google they say its the 3rd highest traditional lighthouse in the world.  I cannot find any information if the 75 meters is it’s height above sea level.

The focal height is defined as the height of the lamp from water level, and this is 72m for the lighthouse in question. 75m stated as the tower height, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phare_de_Gatteville
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Offline J-Man

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 12:50:37 PM »
Natasha (The Mother of Man) Adam named you that.

If the world was a ball you wouldn't be able to see the light from the lighthouse. I'm still waiting for a scientist to create a spinning ball where water adheres to it. They, the scientist like to recreate although this one doesn't fit into the evil agenda. Stay flat, because it IS ! Water always seeks it's own level 148km or 4000 km, no ball.....

J-Man
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 01:13:37 PM »
From Snaefell on the Isle of Man, for example, you can on a clear day see the "Six Kingdoms"
I don't think being able to see Ireland from a mountain the Isle of Man is quite as remarkable as seeing an individual lighthouse would be.
Sure. I was just responding to Thork's assertion that 10k is the limit of visibility, it isn't although obviously visibility can vary.
And obviously a bright light on a dark night would be more visible than any dimly lit object.
That said, given the distance, the viewer height and the height of the lighthouse I am sceptical whether the light would be visible at that distance.
Obviously refraction can be a factor, but still.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2019, 01:23:51 PM »
I don't know how used it is but this may seem helpful here;

http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Advanced+Earth+Curvature+Calculator
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 01:45:56 PM »
If the world was a ball you wouldn't be able to see the light from the lighthouse.

Why not?

I'm still waiting for a scientist to create a spinning ball where water adheres to it.

You don't need a scientist for this. Find a Grand Kugel, like this one;



"It is best after it has been still for awhile and the exposed surface is dry. That way you can get a grip on it to get it going. Once it is all wet, it is slippery and hard to influence "

How would it get "all wet" without water adhering to it?
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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2019, 01:52:46 PM »
How would it get "all wet" without water adhering to it?
1. A tiny bit of surface tension does not constitute evidence of large scale gravitation.
2. You're really pushing it with the off-topic ramblings today. Stop.
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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2019, 02:07:48 PM »
How would it get "all wet" without water adhering to it?
1. A tiny bit of surface tension does not constitute evidence of large scale gravitation.
2. You're really pushing it with the off-topic ramblings today. Stop.
To be fair, it was a response to something J-man said.
And while it doesn't constitute evidence of large scale gravitation, it does illustrate the principle that it's possible for a force to prevent water "finding its level" and thus wrap around the contours of a non-flat object.

If the observation stated in the OP is accurate then that could be evidence of flatness, according to the calculator posted above there would have to be extreme refraction in order to bend the light that much to be visible over the curve. I'm sceptical that even on a FE a lighthouse could be seen at that distance though so I'm more inclined to think the observed light has another source. Difficult to say as no evidence other than "this is what I saw" has been provided.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2019, 02:10:28 PM »
How would it get "all wet" without water adhering to it?
1. A tiny bit of surface tension does not constitute evidence of large scale gravitation.

I didn't claim that it did.

All Thork (EDIT - J-man) asked for was "...a spinning ball where water adheres to it. "

... and I provided him with an example of one. He didn't ask for one with "large scale gravitation".
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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 02:11:45 PM »
To be fair, it was a response to something J-man said.
That it may be, and I'm putting a stop to it right here. As always, balance is important - someone who's made 10 off-topic posts today and was repeatedly asked to stop is more likely to attract my attention. Whataboutism won't change that.

Also, you know better than to complain about moderation mid-thread. You can PM me, you can start a thread in S&C. Do not add to the disruption.

I didn't claim that it did.
Okay, take a few weeks' vacation. Hopefully you'll have remembered how human communications works by the time you're back.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 02:15:14 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2019, 02:22:02 PM »
Now, back to the topic at hand.

If the observation stated in the OP is accurate then that could be evidence of flatness, according to the calculator posted above there would have to be extreme refraction in order to bend the light that much to be visible over the curve. I'm sceptical that even on a FE a lighthouse could be seen at that distance though so I'm more inclined to think the observed light has another source. Difficult to say as no evidence other than "this is what I saw" has been provided.

I agree, the observation is a bit suspect. How did Natasha ascertain that the light she's seeing originated at the lighthouse? More information is required before it can be meaningfully discussed.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2019, 02:29:32 PM »
It is a shipping route from portsmouth crossing the path right between the two points, so there is a chance you could be seeing ship lights. I guess the question is whether or not the angle of the light from the OP's position matches perfectly in the direction of the lighthouse and if the light is always static and seen on multiple occasions.
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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2019, 04:50:38 PM »
The Gatteville lighthouse is on the Pointe de Barfleur, the north-easterly corner of the Cherbourg peninsula, and thus about 100 miles from Brighton. The nominal range listed for this light is 29 miles, which is the distance it can be seen when the actual visibility is 10 miles, and so it must have a brightness of about 3.5 million candelas, brighter than any lighthouse in Britain. Even so, it's unlikely that it could be seen at a distance of 100 miles in perfect visibility. Intervisibility depends on the distance to the horizon from both the light and the viewer: if they add up to more than the distance between them, then OK; if not, not.
   The height of 72 metres is the height above Mean High Water Springs: most of the time the light will be a few metres higher than that above the water. The tidal range at Cherbourg is about 5 metres, so on average the light is 74.5 metres above the sea.
   For the light, a height of 74.5 metres or 244 feet means a horizon distance of 15 miles. So the lady's flat needs a horizon distance of 85 miles, which requires a height of over 7,000 feet. Even in Brighton, a hilly town, this seems unlikely.
   So we have to ask: how does she know she's looking at Gatteville? Can she write back and describe the character of the light -- how many flashes, how often, what colour? This is how lights are identified, in the dark, when you can’t see the tower.

Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2019, 09:44:39 PM »
Once again, hi to all you beautiful people. :)

And thank you all for your interest and response to my very curious question.

As I did say, this was my first ever post to the flat earth community, also its my first time that I am in a position to view and investigate the wonderful world of our flat earth.
Having this view for sure gives me the perfect opportunity to really see the world from a very different perspective.

Anyway.. back to my original question.

I have since done more research and I still want to do more.. but I think you all are right.  The possibility that this light comes from the lighthouse is very unlikely.

From researching more about the "Gatteville Lighthouse" I have read that this light is intermittent every 10 seconds.
The light that I have been looking at, is for sure stationary, and definitely not a ship, but from viewing a gps nautical map it is more than likely just a buoy that has intermittent light of around 4 seconds.  But once again I would like to do more research on this to find out exactly what it is. If I do find out any more interesting information than I will let you all know.

Plus I think from my view point that the lighthouse in question would be slightly more west from my perspective.  But once again more time and research needed to investigate all those wonderful lights out there.  Plus the weather has been pretty shit.. so I can not wait to view on an extremely clear night.

This view is for sure keeping me entertained with my thoughts.  And I am sure I could find out much more if I had the right equipment.

From an Earth curvature calculator, if I am 82 meters above sea level then my horizon on a globe model would be 33km away
During the day its impossible to see anything on that horizon point, but at night there are many ships/boats that move across that horizon.  I just find it fascinating that they all move along that one line. Meaning on a globe model that they are all 33km away.
This makes no sense.  Or am I making no sense.. hahaha

Anyway thank you all again for you kind help and response..

But what ever happens I will continue on my exciting quest to find hard evidence.  Even though in my heart I am and always will be a flattie. :)

Peace and Much LOVE to you all

Natasha :)

And as J-Man mentioned… Natasha (mother of man)  Makes perfect sense considering my username. :)

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2019, 10:11:14 PM »
Possibly, I'm from Southampton and see lights off the coast and up the river in the area a lot but never really think to investigate, the furthest I've gone out on our family boat is around the isle of wight and that was just as a kid so my knowledge about the different kinds of navigation aids is limited, but I do know there are buoys that flash in certain intermissions to mean certain things (of which I have no idea) perhaps look up online and see if you can find anything on flashing lights every 4 seconds. I don't know if they're a universal thing across all oceans or just the english channel being unique, but I found a flashcard chart here that does describe 15 flashes per minute;

https://www.brainscape.com/flashcards/buoyage-charts-amp-navigation-6392306/packs/9741916
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: The view from my bedroom window
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2019, 10:13:23 AM »
Natasha’s second post (which I’ll refer to as “N2”, hoping she won’t take offence) seems to be leading to three separate lines of thought. The most important is the identification of the light she sees. We seem to be agreed that this is not the lighthouse at Gatteville on the north coast of France, but for clarity’s sake I ought to state that this shows two very short flashes of white light – each of one-tenth of a second – separated by 2.5 seconds; the whole repeated every ten seconds. Its direction from Brighton is 210° True, or S30°W; what the mariner calls south-west by south.
   N2 now says that she thinks the light is a flash every 4 seconds, and its direction is “more to the west from her perspective” (by perspective I think she means position). Fortunately flashing 4 seconds is pretty unusual in the Brighton area, the only example shown on the chart being a buoy showing a yellow light about a mile off the west end of the Marina.
   We don’t know which tower block Natasha lives in (and we don’t want her to tell us on the Internet!) but there are not many tower blocks close to the beach and we won’t go far wrong by assuming she lives somewhere near Bedford Square. The buoy in question bears about 120° True from the I360 Tower, which the mariner would call south-east by east. If Natasha means that Gatteville is “more to the west” of the buoy, that would be right.
   If Natasha wants to find out more about the navigation lights visible from her bedroom window, she can’t do better than look at a copy of Admiralty Chart No. 1652, which shows every buoy and lighthouse along the coast from Selsey Bill to Beachy Head, with Brighton of course smack in the middle. Unfortunately there’s no chart agent close to Brighton, but there’s any amount of sellers on the Web. Each chart costs £26.40. Or of course there might be a copy in the local reference library.
   The second theme arising from N2 is Natasha’s height and her horizon distance. The statement that she’s 82 metres above mean sea level (MSL) is a bit unlikely. To achieve this she’d have be living on about the twentieth floor of Sussex Heights, the tallest building in Brighton, the only one that exceeds about 50m. On the other hand, I think there was an indication in N1 that she lives on the sixth floor of her block. This would be about 24 metres, or say 80 feet,  above the ground. We have to add on say fifteen feet for the base of the block above MSL, and five feet for her eyes above the floor when she’s standing at the window, so I expect her to be at 100 feet or 30 metres above MSL. Her horizon distance would then be about 10 miles. (You don’t need a curvature-calculator for this: for heights below about 500 feet, use the simple formula d in miles equals the square root of the height in feet. You’re not after precision to the nearest yard.)
   GPS is notoriously unreliable when it comes to heights, but it should be able to distinguish between 82m and 30m. If she puts her GPS receiver on the windowsill and lets it settle for ten minutes, it should give something like the right answer.
   Lastly, we need to look at Natasha’s ideas about the ships out at sea. She sees them as travelling in a straight line along the “horizon line.” The first thing to say here is the visible horizon is not a straight line, it’s an arc of a circle centred on the viewer. All points on it are the same distance from the viewer: that’s why we can speak of a “horizon distance.”
   Large ships travelling westwards in the Channel from the Dover Strait have to remain in a marked shipping lane about ten miles wide, which ends just south of Brighton and is more than 20 miles off the coast. Ships going eastward have to enter a similar lane about 15 miles further south still. So from Natasha’s point of view, they will probably look as though they’re all much the same distance away; and of course, since they are below her horizon, she won’t see them during the day, but the navigation lights of the larger ships will probably be visible to her at night – green lights on those going west, red lights on those further away going east.
   I hope all this is helpful to Natasha: it’s certainly fun for me!