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Offline Baby Thork

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Twitch Pricing
« on: November 12, 2019, 05:25:53 PM »
Twitch pricing is outrageous. There, I said it.  >o<

To subscribe to a streamer you can choose

Tier 1 - $4.99
Tier 2 - $9.99
Tier 3 - $24.99

Let us ignore Tier 2 & 3 as just fantasy land. Let's look at Tier 1.

For $4.99 per month you can remove the adverts, get access to 'emotes' and if the streamer happens to have it on, use 'subscriber chat'. That's the value proposition. For one account, for one streamer. If you wish to subscribe to more streamers, the price keeps going linearly so subscribe to just 3 streamers and you are paying $14.97 per month. To watch 3 different people in their bedrooms play computer games, yawn and eat their dinners.

I would also argue that for $4.99 per month you could instead get Apple's new streaming service. Which is an account for the entire family and has millions of dollars of new content such as Jason Momoa in 'See'. How does a streamer compete with that?
Its a direct competitor. Same price, wants my eyeballs.
Clearly I can't subscribe to everything. I need to make choices. Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV+, Disney TV etc etc. Why do I choose a streamer on Twitch? And how the hell are any of them worth $4.99?

I don't understand why Twitch would have such a stupid business model. If it was $4.99 for Twitch ... ie the entire site and I get to watch ad-free for $4.99 ... OK, if I'm spending enough time there, that might be worth it. Apple TV vs Twitch ... sure ... they could both be worth $4.99. But a single streamer? This is madness. And I think deeply unfair on the streamers. To expect them to generate $4.99 worth of content per month.
"Hey, woman in her bedroom who bodypaints herself on Twitch, Disney just added all their Marvel back catalogue, their national geographic documentaries, their stars wars and Pixar content and all the Disney films and cartoons for me to watch this month. Just $6.99. What are you going to do to compete this month?"

How can it be that 2 streamers cost more that Netflix?

Netflix is 24/7. A streamer needs to sleep, take days off, have holidays. Let's say they stream a staggering 60 hours a week ... well my new Apple TV+ account is available 108 hours a week more! Most of the time, a streamers account isn't even on ... their channel is off ... a channel I might be paying $4.99 a month for. And why would I be interested in watching a single individual for say 20 hours a week unless I had a weird obsession with them? If I'm only watching 5 hours a week I'm not really getting my money's worth, am I?


Now there is the argument that you are 'supporting' the streamer. Sure. Why can't I do that via donations? Why is the subscribe 'support' the 50% goes to Twitch bit? Am I supporting Twitch? A multi-billion dollar platform whose parent company is Amazon? Surely amazon doesn't need my 'support'. If I'm just supporting I can donate, like I would to a busker.

I do not see how Twitch can scale under this model. Sure, there will always be people who will pay over the odds as money isn't really an object. But for most people it is. If you were going to subscribe to say 3 streamers a month and throw $15 at twitch every month, now I have to choose 3 streamers? And stay committed to those ones and only watch those ones for a whole month? The entire thing is bizarre. It is like being subscribed to Netflix and only being allowed to watch Breaking Bad and absolutely nothing else for $4.99 and if I want to watch say Sense8 ... another $4.99 and then I want to watch Orange is the New Black ... yup another $4.99.

Twitch should either be $4.99 for access to the whole site and you can tip streamers individually, or you set the price to what they are actually worth. About $0.10 a month each.

Even at $0.99 I could almost say "expensive for what it is, but its only $0.99 and I might watch say 5 streamers regularly a month and 5 bucks ... fine". But I'm not paying $25 a month to watch 5 different streamers.

And if you are reading this thinking "just watch with the adverts" then you aren't someone who has ever tried to watch Twitch and been smashed with 5 ads on the bounce every 5 mins. And its not like TV where the program stops during the adverts. Oh no. The stream goes on only you can't follow it until the ads are over.

Twitch is a stupid business model that vastly over-prices and puts unrealistic pressure on streamers to deliver content, that is just impossible for them to compete with other streaming services. Prove me wrong.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 05:33:01 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Parsifal

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 06:30:20 PM »
And if you are reading this thinking "just watch with the adverts" then you aren't someone who has ever tried to watch Twitch and been smashed with 5 ads on the bounce every 5 mins. And its not like TV where the program stops during the adverts. Oh no. The stream goes on only you can't follow it until the ads are over.

Never heard of adblockers?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 07:25:06 PM »
There is no adblocker for Twitch.

A stream is literally timed out until the adverts complet, so even if you block the adverts (difficult as they use dynamic links that change all the time), the stream would still not start until the ads are finished and you just have a black screen. So if twitch was going to serve you 1:52 of ads, even if you block them the stream won't send you data for 1:52

Its not youtube. Twitch is super aggressive on adblock.
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Offline junker

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2019, 07:33:52 PM »
>imagine unironically using twitch

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 07:56:21 PM »
>imagine unironically using twitch
I'm down with the kids.  8)
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 09:49:25 PM »
You dont get ads that often on twich and many streamers have patreon so you can support them outside the platform.  I have one streamer I give my twitch prime to, and I just have something else to look at while ads roll. 

Stop being such a boomer, Thonk.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 10:02:34 PM »
You dont get ads that often on twich and many streamers have patreon so you can support them outside the platform.  I have one streamer I give my twitch prime to, and I just have something else to look at while ads roll. 

Stop being such a boomer, Thonk.

Ok, so interesting points. Which is unusual from you so I'll take the time to answer them.

1. I'm not a boomer. I am generation X ... I'm just a couple of years too old to be a millennial ... thank God. I'm nowhere near a boomer. My parents are boomers.
2. How often you get ads really depends on how many twitch has sold. They recently got a deal with OMEN PC and just spammed the shit out of everyone with b-roll footage of ugly gamers folding their arms and looking intense. I can see why most companies use models. Gamers are fugly. They also plug amazon TV a lot when they have nothing else to advertise. It looks as if very few brands want to advertise on such an unsafe medium where the streamer could be doing or saying Lord knows what. So when they have ads, they'll spam you with them and when they have nothing, you get some peace and quiet.
3. Twitch Prime ... a huge and unsustainable subsidy from parent company Amazon to streamers. There will be a Twitch Prime apocalypse at some point that will wipe out many shitty channels. Currently Amazon are paying 50% (half the sub) out to the streamer. So anyone with an Amazon Prime can just point at a streamer and say 'give that one $2.50 for me every single month'. Clearly as the platform grows and more Prime members start using those subs, there will come a point where Amazon say this is getting too expensive and Twitch is now big, so lets kill it. No one buys Amazon Prime to get a Twitch Prime Sub. Its a giveaway that will end.


But you aren't really addressing my point. Is there a single channel on Twitch worth $4.99 a month? I'm making the case I don't believe there is a single channel worth even $0.99. I think their business model is whack.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 10:32:19 PM »
I personally have paid 4.99/month to someone who was doing a great job representing and supporting a community of a niche game I play. He offered lots of tactical advice and was active on a discord, etc... I didn’t really miss the fiver and it was good to give something to him.

If you don’t see value in any of that, then the answer is obviously “no” for you. That’s fine. I agree that people who toss out 100 gifted subs on massive channels are idiots because there is a good chance that other than the brief dopamine hit from being thanked on stream, nothing comes of it. Twitch is following the same business model of ftp mobile games that overwhelmingly depend on whales to prop them up. That’s cool by me, like I said, I dont see too many ads on the channels I watch and tend not to watch a stream if the ads get annoying. Interestingly, streamers can get rid of pre-roll ads if they reach a threshold of ads run. This is good for when a streamer takes a break so there is no action anyway.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 11:17:10 PM »
But this is why I don't think Twitch will grow. All the whales are already being harpooned. And new whales won't appear.

Its not like people haven't heard of Twitch. If you are the kind of person to drop 100 gifted subs on a stream, you probably have already done that. I don't see them finding more and more people around the world because as you say ... its pretty dumb.

So your $4.99. The guy gave 'tactical advice' ... yeah ok. But I still find $4.99 a bit steep. If he was pulling his pants down in discord and stuffing enormous vegetables up his backside, maybe I could see the premium price tag for exclusive content. But was he really giving $4.99 of value?

And to be clear, I'm not blaming the streamer. He is giving as much value as he can. My point is he can't set the price to something a bit more realistic ... like say $0.99. And I didn't miss the word niche either ... I get that when fewer people want to support something they have to find the cash between them. But can this guy keep giving you tactics, worth $4.99 a month for several months?

I didn’t really miss the fiver and it was good to give something to him.
I'm totally on board with this. You want to support his work. But you didn't gift $5 to his patreon each month or give him direct donations. You subbed to him. You actually only gave him $2.50 and gave the other half to Twitch. A multi-billion dollar business with Amazon as its parent company that clearly doesn't need 'support'.

My issue is not with supporting streamers. It is with the sub model of every single streamer requiring their own $4.99 sub if you want to watch ad free, and Twitch taking half of that. I don't want to 'support' Amazon. Obviously.

Why can't I just pay $4.99 to Twitch and that's it ... ad free for all streams ... and then donate what I want to who I want without Twitch taking half after that? Instead of being a willing viewer who throws a few bucks to streamers i like now and again, I'm turned off, thinking Twitch only wants whales and I don't want to be spending hundreds of dollars a month on one service.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 11:20:31 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »

I didn’t really miss the fiver and it was good to give something to him.
I'm totally on board with this. You want to support his work. But you didn't gift $5 to his patreon each month or give him direct donations. You subbed to him. You actually only gave him $2.50 and gave the other half to Twitch. A multi-billion dollar business with Amazon as its parent company that clearly doesn't need 'support'.

He didn't have a patreon, otherwise I would have.

Quote
My issue is not with supporting streamers. It is with the sub model of every single streamer requiring their own $4.99 sub if you want to watch ad free, and Twitch taking half of that. I don't want to 'support' Amazon. Obviously.

Why can't I just pay $4.99 to Twitch and that's it ... ad free for all streams ... and then donate what I want to who I want without Twitch taking half after that? Instead of being a willing viewer who throws a few bucks to streamers i like now and again, I'm turned off, thinking Twitch only wants whales and I don't want to be spending hundreds of dollars a month on one service.

Surely there will be adjustments to their revenue model as it dries, but I also suspect there must be something to it that we aren't seeing, PornHub started following it after all.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 08:11:01 PM »
Surely there will be adjustments to their revenue model as it dries, but I also suspect there must be something to it that we aren't seeing, PornHub started following it after all.


Apples and pears. Or Apples and porns.

Apple has great content. Amazon has great content. Netflix has great content. However ... PornHub has better content. A porn video can easily cost you $40 for the one video. Nothing Amazon or Netflix or Disney make can compete with that. Porn is king.

So PornHub having a model where you might pay $4.99 to a single pornstar for her content ... sure. I did elude to this above with my comment
If he was pulling his pants down in discord and stuffing enormous vegetables up his backside, maybe I could see the premium price tag for exclusive content. But was he really giving $4.99 of value?

But some girl just reading chat in a pushup bra or dancing to just dance 2020 ... she's not worth $4.99 and nothing she could do within Twitch's terms of service, is worth $4.99.
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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 05:36:42 AM »
Streamer subscriptions are $4.99 because people will pay it. If you don’t like it, then don’t subscribe. Also, I’ve watched hundreds of hours of Twitch streams and I’ve seen maybe 10 ads, which were all baked into the stream for special events. If you’re watching a regular stream, and have adblock on, then you won’t see ads.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 05:39:40 AM by Fortuna »
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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 07:37:36 PM »
You're not paying for a service, you're paying to support a streamer.

/thread
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 07:57:42 PM »
You're not paying for a service, you're paying to support a streamer.

/thread
Read the OP. You are not making a donation, you are subbing ... ie giving half to Twitch. No one is 'supporting' Twitch. It doesn't need support. It has Amazon bankrolling it.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 08:54:50 PM »
Why would Amazon want Twitch if it doesn’t make money?
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2019, 11:17:27 PM »
Why would Amazon want Twitch if it doesn’t make money?
FOMO.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2019, 03:12:22 PM »
Why would Amazon want Twitch if it doesn’t make money?
FOMO.

I sincerely doubt that. You don’t become the richest man in the world by indulging FOMO over greed.
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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2019, 05:31:04 PM »
You're not paying for a service, you're paying to support a streamer.

/thread
Read the OP. You are not making a donation, you are subbing ... ie giving half to Twitch. No one is 'supporting' Twitch. It doesn't need support. It has Amazon bankrolling it.

Your argument makes no sense.
me: it's a donation
you: amazon takes half of it

???
So because there's a third party taking a cut it's no longer a donation? wut

I give money to a twitch streamer for the priceless feeling of giving money to something that I think is a good cause (i.e. a donation). The fact that amazon gets half of the donation is entirely opaque and not something often considered by subbers. The dumb emotes and stuff are icing on the cake.

"why not just donate"
What so I'm going to like go to another website, find their page, make an account, verify my email, enter my card details... that's already too much effort - I've already clicked on the twitch subscribe button. You're undervaluing convenience.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 05:34:25 PM by Tim Alphabeaver »
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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2019, 05:32:22 PM »
[...]

And of course something I forgot to mention - a shoutout from an Important Person live on air isn't something you can put a price tag on.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Twitch Pricing
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2019, 06:14:59 PM »
Why would Amazon want Twitch if it doesn’t make money?
FOMO.

I sincerely doubt that. You don’t become the richest man in the world by indulging FOMO over greed.
All tech companies FOMO.

Microsoft FOMO'd so hard over missing mobile they bought Nokia.
Google FOMO'd so hard over social that they spent almost $1bn on Google+
Apple FOMO'd so hard over Microsoft's Kinect system, they rushed out and spent $345m on Primesense.
Facebook FOMO'd so hard over wearable technologies that they bought Pebble.

Amazon FOMO'd over live streaming ... they bought Twitch ... and they have no idea how to make money out of it yet.

[...]
And of course something I forgot to mention - a shoutout from an Important Person live on air isn't something you can put a price tag on.
There are important people on Twitch? A girl doing squats for subs is important? A guy playing WoW with 200 viewers is important?

Pay2say might well work if I want Vin Diesel to read my question or Jennifer Garner ... but it isn't worth $3 to find out what Logan the Overwatch player from Michigan had for breakfast.
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