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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2019, 01:21:56 AM »
How does gravity pull object down to the earth at the same rate and ignore the fact that bodies have different inertial resistences to being moved through space?

It's easier to roll a marble versus a bowling ball, for example. All bodies exhibit internal resistences when they are moved through space.

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2019, 05:02:12 AM »
How does gravity pull object down to the earth at the same rate and ignore the fact that bodies have different inertial resistences to being moved through space?

It's easier to roll a marble versus a bowling ball, for example. All bodies exhibit internal resistences when they are moved through space.
So what you dont understand is why objects of different mass have the same acceleration under gravity. The thing is gravity acts on an atomic level which means it pulls every atom down towards the center of the earth, every atom in the object gets acted on by gravity equally. This is why the difference in mass does not effect the acceleration due to gtavity. To put it simply, (if air resistance is negligble) if you drop an 2 object of equal mass of lets say 1 kg, they would fall with the same acceleration,  now if you have 3 object of mass 1 kg and drop them all at the same time, again they would all fall with the same acceleration. Now if merge 10 of the 1 kg mass together, they would fall with the same acceleration as the 1 kg mass because all 10 of the 1 kg mass gets the same acceleration.  In terms of math, (acceleration due to gravity is 10 to keep it simple) if you drop a 1 kg mass using F=M A  F=1×10  F=10 so the weight is 10N for every kg, if the mass is 10kg F=10×10 = 100N, the weight is 100N, which is equal to the weight of 10 1kg weight. Hence I claim that gravity act on every object equally.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2019, 12:46:37 AM »
If gravity acted on all objects as if they all had the same inertial resistance/weight then all bodies would have the same weight on a scale.

Why do bodies have different weights if a mystical phenomena is pulling all atoms in objects with the same force, as if all bodies had the same weight, solely to explain for us why bodies fall without exhibition of inertial resistance?

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2019, 04:07:58 AM »
I think you are misunderstanding inertial resistant, inertial resistant is the object trying to stay at a constant velocity, when gravity acts on a body of the same mass, they will have same inertial resistant, if an object is made up of more atom or atoms of higher molar mass then the inertial force is higher the reason why they fall with the same acceleration is because gravity does not apply a constant force on the object as a whole, but it act on every matter that made up the object ( proton, nuetron,electron) and gave them force proportional to their mass .And inertia is not related to the weight of the body. And what you see on a scale when you weight the body is not the inertial force, its the normal force which was cause by gravity pulling the body to the surface and the surface is pushing back at the same force. The body that consist of more matter will have more weight because gravity act more on it as a whole.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2019, 04:55:51 AM »
The body that consist of more matter will have more weight because gravity act more on it as a whole.

I thought that you just told us that gravity acts on all bodies the same? Now gravity is acting on some bodies more? So why do bowling balls and marbles fall at the same rate again with everything magically equaling out?

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2019, 06:16:41 AM »
I am sorry that sound confusing, what I mean was that when the mass of the body is the same, the force of gravity act on them equally, and the force is proportional to the weight. If the object has more mass then, the total force that act on the object is higher compare to the one with lower mass, this doesnt change the fact that gravity act on object equally. Imagin putting 1 kg weight on a scale and 2 1 kg weight on the scale. The scale will show more weight on the one with 2 1 kg weight. If you were to drop all of them at the same time, the acceleration of all of them will be equal, if you merge all of them together doesnt change the total force acting on it or the total mass. And you will get the same acceleration if you use the formular F=ma

Offline somerled

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
How does a large body then exert an equal force onto bodies of varying mass ? Why would earth with all its atoms not exert a greater force on a smaller object than a larger one ? How does the attractive force regulate itself to produce constant acceleration upon bodies of differing mass?

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2019, 12:43:28 PM »
Why do bodies have different weights if a mystical phenomena is pulling all atoms in objects with the same force
Because more massive objects have more atoms in them. That’s pretty much the definition of mass.
This really isn’t hard to understand:

1) The force of earth’s gravity acting on a body (which is the definition of weight, by the way) is proportional to the body’s mass.
2) The force required to accelerate a body at a certain rate is also proportional to the body’s mass (F = ma)

These two things are why all bodies accelerate at the same rate in a gravitational field.

Why is this the case? They’re just properties of the universe. You might as well ask why magnetism is so much stronger a force than gravity such that a small magnet can lift an object, overcoming the gravity of the whole earth.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2019, 03:33:37 PM »
The body that consist of more matter will have more weight because gravity act more on it as a whole.

So why do bowling balls and marbles fall at the same rate again with everything magically equaling out?

They don't assuming you are not talking in a vacuum.  Mass and drag are the factors that set the terminal velocity of a falling object.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2019, 04:17:32 PM »
I am sorry that sound confusing, what I mean was that when the mass of the body is the same, the force of gravity act on them equally, and the force is proportional to the weight. If the object has more mass then, the total force that act on the object is higher compare to the one with lower mass, this doesnt change the fact that gravity act on object equally. Imagin putting 1 kg weight on a scale and 2 1 kg weight on the scale. The scale will show more weight on the one with 2 1 kg weight. If you were to drop all of them at the same time, the acceleration of all of them will be equal, if you merge all of them together doesnt change the total force acting on it or the total mass. And you will get the same acceleration if you use the formular F=ma

If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.

An answer of "Just because they do" is not a very satisfying mechanism, IMO.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 04:19:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2019, 05:08:33 PM »
If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.
It does make sense if you understand that it requires a more forceful pull to accelerate an object which is more massive than one which has less mass. And you do understand that because you know it’s easier to move (and therefore accelerate) a toy car than a real car.

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An answer of "Just because they do" is not a very satisfying mechanism, IMO.
Maybe not, but isn’t that your answer to almost everything about your FE Model?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline somerled

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2019, 05:37:06 PM »
Never heard of the Just Because theory although it does remove the need for any proof .
Science freely admits it has no explanation of how "gravity" actually works or how it is transmitted .

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2019, 05:56:43 PM »
If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.
It does make sense if you understand that it requires a more forceful pull to accelerate an object which is more massive than one which has less mass.

No, it doesn't make sense at all. Gravity also affects photons, which have zero mass.

From a University of Oregon lecture:

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec07.html

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although a simple and common sense assumption, the equivalence principle has strange consequences such as, photons will be affected by gravity, even though they have zero mass

« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 06:46:44 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2019, 06:18:40 PM »
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No, it doesn't make sense at all. Gravity also affects photons, which have zero mass.

Gravity doesn’t affect the photons directly.  According to GR, gravity warps spacetime, “curving” the space through which light travels. Just like shortest distance between two points on a globe is not a straight line, the shortest distance between two points in curved space time is not a straight line.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2019, 06:24:59 PM »
General Relativity is an upwardly accelerating earth simulator.

Relativity and Accelerating Upwards:

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Consider a skydiver jumping out of an airplane. The skydiver falls freely, up to the effects of air resistance. According to Einstein, the skydiver's path is the straightest line possible through the curved space-time around the Earth. From the skydiver's perspective this seems quite natural. Except for the air rushing past her, the skydiver feels no perturbing forces at all. In fact, if it weren't for the air resistance, she would experience weightlessness in the same way that an astronaut does in orbit. The only reason we think the skydiver is accelerating is because we are used to using the surface of the Earth as our frame of reference. If we free ourselves from this convention, then we have no reason to think the skydiver is accelerating at all.

Now consider yourself on the ground, looking up at the falling daredevil. Normally, your intuitive description of your own motion would be that you are stationary. But again this is only because of our slavish regard to the Earth as the arbiter of what is at rest and what is moving. Free yourself from this prison, and you realize that you are, in fact, accelerating. You feel a force on the soles of your feet that pushes you upwards, in the same way that you would if you were in a lift that accelerated upwards very quickly. In Einstein's picture there is no difference between your experience sanding on Earth and your experience in the lift. In both situations you are accelerating upwards. In the latter situation it is the lift that is responsible for your acceleration. In the former, it is the fact that the Earth is solid that pushes you upwards through space-time, knocking you off your free-fall trajectory. That the surface of the Earth can accelerate upwards at every point on its surface, and remain as a solid object, is because it exists in a curved space-time and not in a flat space.

With this change in perspective the true nature of gravity becomes apparent. The free falling skydiver is brought to Earth because the space-time through which she falls is curved. It is not an external force that tugs her downwards, but her own natural motion through a curved space. On the other hand, as a person standing on the ground, the pressure you feel on the soles of your feet is due to the rigidity of the Earth pushing you upwards. Again, there is no external force pulling you to Earth. It is only the electrostatic forces in the rocks below your feet that keep the ground rigid, and that prevents you from taking what would be your natural motion (which would also be free fall).

So, if we free ourselves from defining our motion with respect to the surface of the Earth we realize that the skydiver is not accelerating, while the person who stands on the surface of the Earth is accelerating. Just the opposite of what we usually think. Going back to Galileo's experiment on the leaning tower of Pisa, we can now see why he observed all of his cannonballs to fall at the same rate. It wasn't really the cannonballs that were accelerating away from Galileo at all, it was Galileo that was accelerating away from the cannonballs!

See the bolded. "In both situations you are accelerating upwards" and the Earth is "pushing you upwards through space-time."

Different bodies have different weights because the Earth is accelerating upwards, pushing itself into bodies which have different inertial resistances to being moved through space.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 05:39:27 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2019, 08:56:29 PM »
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See the bolded. "In both situations you are accelerating upwards" and the Earth is "pushing you upwards through space-time."

As usual, you pick and choose what suits you.
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But bear in mind throughout:  It is the curvature of space-time that is responsible for it all.

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2019, 10:11:03 PM »
If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.
It does make sense if you understand that it requires a more forceful pull to accelerate an object which is more massive than one which has less mass.

No, it doesn't make sense at all. Gravity also affects photons, which have zero mass.
Reasonable point, but I was talking about Newton's model of gravity. And you're right this doesn't explain why gravity would affect light.
Einstein's model does explain this as well as why objects of different masses accelerate at the same rate.
That's why it's a better model although for most practical purposes Newton's model does fine.
End of the day, the model of gravity explains how the earth orbits the sun, how the moon orbits earth, how the other planets orbit the sun and how their moons orbit them.
You have no coherent model which explains any of this. I'm always amazed that you pick holes in conventional physics - often based on your lack of understanding - but seem fine believing your model which is full of "that's just how it is".
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2019, 09:48:20 AM »
Can someone explain how the sun and moon revloves in flat earth model (I saw it on the faq but dont really get it). What forces are causing the sun and the moon to move like that, there is nothing in the center so there is no centripital force pulling it

Offline somerled

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2019, 12:21:53 PM »
If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.
It does make sense if you understand that it requires a more forceful pull to accelerate an object which is more massive than one which has less mass.

No, it doesn't make sense at all. Gravity also affects photons, which have zero mass.
Reasonable point, but I was talking about Newton's model of gravity. And you're right this doesn't explain why gravity would affect light.
Einstein's model does explain this as well as why objects of different masses accelerate at the same rate.
That's why it's a better model although for most practical purposes Newton's model does fine.
End of the day, the model of gravity explains how the earth orbits the sun, how the moon orbits earth, how the other planets orbit the sun and how their moons orbit them.
You have no coherent model which explains any of this. I'm always amazed that you pick holes in conventional physics - often based on your lack of understanding - but seem fine believing your model which is full of "that's just how it is".

Then why haven't you or science provided us with an explanation of how gravity works and interaction between objects occurs ?



Offline ChrisTP

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Re: FE Gravity
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2019, 01:56:24 PM »
If one body is experiencing a more forceful pull from the earth, as to cause it to weigh more, it does not make sense that all bodies would fall at the same rate.
It does make sense if you understand that it requires a more forceful pull to accelerate an object which is more massive than one which has less mass.

No, it doesn't make sense at all. Gravity also affects photons, which have zero mass.
Reasonable point, but I was talking about Newton's model of gravity. And you're right this doesn't explain why gravity would affect light.
Einstein's model does explain this as well as why objects of different masses accelerate at the same rate.
That's why it's a better model although for most practical purposes Newton's model does fine.
End of the day, the model of gravity explains how the earth orbits the sun, how the moon orbits earth, how the other planets orbit the sun and how their moons orbit them.
You have no coherent model which explains any of this. I'm always amazed that you pick holes in conventional physics - often based on your lack of understanding - but seem fine believing your model which is full of "that's just how it is".

Then why haven't you or science provided us with an explanation of how gravity works and interaction between objects occurs ?
It has provided an explanation as much to our (humans) understanding. There things left unanswered for sure, the universe is mysterious to us and we are but a young civilisation. Regardless, there more detailed explanations of how gravity works than how things would function on a flat earth. Can anyone give a better, more in depth explanation of gravity under the assumption of a flat earth than we have now? An explanation with absolutely everything answered?
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?