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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2019, 10:45:32 AM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2019, 10:53:10 AM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
HIPAA was highly en vogue, much more than any other era health related topics.

24/7 news cycle came into being, remember.

HIPAA added a tremendous amount of cost to health care.

I am not surprised to learn none of you wish to cede this point.

There was an act in 45 preventing outside competition from other insurance providers, which none of the presidents (except maybe Trump, perhaps) has sought to overturn.

If government gets out of the business altogether, things will no doubt get cheaper.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2019, 11:47:16 AM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
HIPAA was highly en vogue, much more than any other era health related topics.

Evidence?

Quote
24/7 news cycle came into being, remember.

HIPAA added a tremendous amount of cost to health care.

I am not surprised to learn none of you wish to cede this point.

You haven’t provided any evidence, Dave has. Provide some evidence.

Quote
There was an act in 45 preventing outside competition from other insurance providers, which none of the presidents (except maybe Trump, perhaps) has sought to overturn.

He’s as corporatist a president as any other.

Quote
If government gets out of the business altogether, things will no doubt get cheaper.

Maybe. I hope for you me sake it’s the case.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2019, 11:56:55 AM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
HIPAA was highly en vogue, much more than any other era health related topics.

24/7 news cycle came into being, remember.

HIPAA added a tremendous amount of cost to health care.

I am not surprised to learn none of you wish to cede this point.

Evidence?
My personal experience here in the US.

Neither you nor Dave live in the US.
You haven’t provided any evidence, Dave has. Provide some evidence.
You ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't been provided.

I provided a link to an article stating exactly how regulation can lead to higher costs.

In this very post, I provided you with the act written in 1945...prohibiting insurance company competition.
Quote
There was an act in 45 preventing outside competition from other insurance providers, which none of the presidents (except maybe Trump, perhaps) has sought to overturn.

He’s as corporatist a president as any other.
Who has given indications he isn't producing corporatist results.

Quote
If government gets out of the business altogether, things will no doubt get cheaper.

Maybe. I hope for you me sake it’s the case.
Every once in a while, you end up writing something truthful..
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:03:27 PM by totallackey »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2019, 12:17:18 PM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
HIPAA was highly en vogue, much more than any other era health related topics.

24/7 news cycle came into being, remember.

HIPAA added a tremendous amount of cost to health care.

I am not surprised to learn none of you wish to cede this point.

Evidence?
My personal experience here in the US.

That’s not evidence. You haven’t accounted for your bias of living through one time vs another. Anecdotes in general are garbage evidence.

Quote
Neither you nor Dave live in the US.

So what?
Quote
You haven’t provided any evidence, Dave has. Provide some evidence.
You ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't been provided.

I provided a link to an article stating exactly how regulation can lead to higher costs.

In this very post, I provided you with the act written in 1945...prohibiting insurance company competition.

We are discussing your claim that it was the 1990s when healthcare became the en vogue topic. Please try to stay on topic.

Quote
Quote
There was an act in 45 preventing outside competition from other insurance providers, which none of the presidents (except maybe Trump, perhaps) has sought to overturn.

He’s as corporatist a president as any other.
Who has given indications he isn't producing corporatist results.

No one. Glad we agree.

Quote

Quote
If government gets out of the business altogether, things will no doubt get cheaper.

Maybe. I hope for you me sake it’s the case.
Every once in a while, you end up writing something truthful..

Thanks puddin’  :-*
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2019, 12:26:33 PM »
En vogue topics for the 1990s were “not having sexual relations”, the wars in the Baltic states, WTC bombing, Whitewater.
HIPAA was highly en vogue, much more than any other era health related topics.

24/7 news cycle came into being, remember.

HIPAA added a tremendous amount of cost to health care.

I am not surprised to learn none of you wish to cede this point.

Evidence?
My personal experience here in the US.

That’s not evidence. You haven’t accounted for your bias of living through one time vs another. Anecdotes in general are garbage evidence.
Perhaps in a trial, but this is not a trial.

And as earlier stated, you don't live in the US.

You have nothing to go on as far as personal experience from the 1960's through now, living in the US and dealing with healthcare in the US.

So, while your opinion is it is "anecdotal," and therefore, "garbage," you then concede through your own writing anecdotes are evidence.

ANOTHER FE VICTORY!
Quote
Neither you nor Dave live in the US.

So what?
So what, what?

You don't live in the US nor does Dave.
Quote
You haven’t provided any evidence, Dave has. Provide some evidence.
You ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't been provided.

I provided a link to an article stating exactly how regulation can lead to higher costs.

In this very post, I provided you with the act written in 1945...prohibiting insurance company competition.
We are discussing your claim that it was the 1990s when healthcare became the en vogue topic. Please try to stay on topic.
No, we are writing about whether the government and regulations lead to higher health care costs.

Please try to stay on topic.
Quote
Quote
There was an act in 45 preventing outside competition from other insurance providers, which none of the presidents (except maybe Trump, perhaps) has sought to overturn.

He’s as corporatist a president as any other.
Who has given indications he isn't producing corporatist results.

No one. Glad we agree.

Quote

Quote
If government gets out of the business altogether, things will no doubt get cheaper.

Maybe. I hope for you me sake it’s the case.
Every once in a while, you end up writing something truthful..

Thanks puddin’  :-*
Ciao.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2019, 03:53:55 PM »
If you read my post again, I stated, "...in vogue topic."

1933-in vogue topic...fact check for you...world wide Great Depression, Hitler...not health care...

1949 - in vogue topic...fact check for you...The Marshall Plan...Cold War commencement...Korean Peninsula...not health care...

Medicare and Medicaid not dominant subject topic during the 60's...Vietnam War, Charles Manson, burning bras, Abby Hoffman...

Clinton HIPAA, piling on costs...

Obama ACA, "...we will need to pass it to see what is in it..."
So years when laws were proposed or enacted weren't popular toics of talk?  Well... How interesting.
Though I wonder how you know what the popular topics in 1933 were.  I mean, you forgot "The New Deal" so... Guessing you just grabbed the two biggest things.  Though Hilter being a vogue topic seems odd given that he hasn't invaded anyone yet.


Quote
Yeah, we will see...the way I hear things, Norway is going broke buster...
Source?  Because last I checked, we had a surplus AND a few Trillion NOK in savings.
https://www.statsbudsjettet.no/Statsbudsjettet-2019/English/

Quote
Just in case you missed it...nothing is free, last I checked...
Yes.  We pay for it with taxes.  Which isn't much more than you do.  Its nice to get more than you for the same cost.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2019, 01:14:17 PM »
If you read my post again, I stated, "...in vogue topic."

1933-in vogue topic...fact check for you...world wide Great Depression, Hitler...not health care...

1949 - in vogue topic...fact check for you...The Marshall Plan...Cold War commencement...Korean Peninsula...not health care...

Medicare and Medicaid not dominant subject topic during the 60's...Vietnam War, Charles Manson, burning bras, Abby Hoffman...

Clinton HIPAA, piling on costs...

Obama ACA, "...we will need to pass it to see what is in it..."
So years when laws were proposed or enacted weren't popular toics of talk?  Well... How interesting.
Though I wonder how you know what the popular topics in 1933 were.  I mean, you forgot "The New Deal" so... Guessing you just grabbed the two biggest things.  Though Hilter being a vogue topic seems odd given that he hasn't invaded anyone yet.
If healthcare was in vogue then, it was within the town where the doctor was performing house calls and accepting chickens or apples in return for service.

Regrettably, due mostly to government interventions and regulations, that practice is long gone.
Quote
Yeah, we will see...the way I hear things, Norway is going broke buster...
Source?  Because last I checked, we had a surplus AND a few Trillion NOK in savings.
https://www.statsbudsjettet.no/Statsbudsjettet-2019/English/
https://www.tnp.no/norway/economy/5496-norway-is-heading-to-a-new-financial-crisis
Quote
Just in case you missed it...nothing is free, last I checked...
Yes.  We pay for it with taxes.  Which isn't much more than you do.  Its nice to get more than you for the same cost.
Actually, you pay much more in taxes than do I, and there is no evidence you get more than I.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2019, 02:38:07 PM »
If you read my post again, I stated, "...in vogue topic."

1933-in vogue topic...fact check for you...world wide Great Depression, Hitler...not health care...

1949 - in vogue topic...fact check for you...The Marshall Plan...Cold War commencement...Korean Peninsula...not health care...

Medicare and Medicaid not dominant subject topic during the 60's...Vietnam War, Charles Manson, burning bras, Abby Hoffman...

Clinton HIPAA, piling on costs...

Obama ACA, "...we will need to pass it to see what is in it..."
So years when laws were proposed or enacted weren't popular toics of talk?  Well... How interesting.
Though I wonder how you know what the popular topics in 1933 were.  I mean, you forgot "The New Deal" so... Guessing you just grabbed the two biggest things.  Though Hilter being a vogue topic seems odd given that he hasn't invaded anyone yet.
If healthcare was in vogue then, it was within the town where the doctor was performing house calls and accepting chickens or apples in return for service.

Regrettably, due mostly to government interventions and regulations, that practice is long gone.
Still waiting to know how you know what was vogue before you were born.

Quote
https://www.tnp.no/norway/economy/5496-norway-is-heading-to-a-new-financial-crisis

Well he said the whole world was heading there but thats largely irrelevant to Norway's specific health.  But the house debt is concerning.


Quote
Actually, you pay much more in taxes than do I, and there is no evidence you get more than I.

Do I?  My source is Norwegian and American work experience.  Yours is?

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2019, 03:40:18 PM »
If you read my post again, I stated, "...in vogue topic."

1933-in vogue topic...fact check for you...world wide Great Depression, Hitler...not health care...

1949 - in vogue topic...fact check for you...The Marshall Plan...Cold War commencement...Korean Peninsula...not health care...

Medicare and Medicaid not dominant subject topic during the 60's...Vietnam War, Charles Manson, burning bras, Abby Hoffman...

Clinton HIPAA, piling on costs...

Obama ACA, "...we will need to pass it to see what is in it..."
So years when laws were proposed or enacted weren't popular toics of talk?  Well... How interesting.
Though I wonder how you know what the popular topics in 1933 were.  I mean, you forgot "The New Deal" so... Guessing you just grabbed the two biggest things.  Though Hilter being a vogue topic seems odd given that he hasn't invaded anyone yet.
If healthcare was in vogue then, it was within the town where the doctor was performing house calls and accepting chickens or apples in return for service.

Regrettably, due mostly to government interventions and regulations, that practice is long gone.
Still waiting to know how you know what was vogue before you were born.
History books.

Quote
https://www.tnp.no/norway/economy/5496-norway-is-heading-to-a-new-financial-crisis

Well he said the whole world was heading there but thats largely irrelevant to Norway's specific health.  But the house debt is concerning.


Quote
Actually, you pay much more in taxes than do I, and there is no evidence you get more than I.

Do I?  My source is Norwegian and American work experience.  Yours is?
[/quote]
Math.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2019, 04:16:07 PM »
History books.
Its funny. I don't recall "vogue topic of the year" being in my American History books.  But since you said it, please, cite your source.  Should be easy.


Quote
Math.
Then show your work.  I'll wait.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2019, 04:19:03 PM »
History books.
Its funny. I don't recall "vogue topic of the year" being in my American History books.  But since you said it, please, cite your source.  Should be easy.
It is.

Choose any American History Book and look up the topics I mentioned.

They will be there, I promise.


Quote
Math.
Then show your work.  I'll wait.
[/quote]
I do not pay 30 percent income tax.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2019, 04:41:53 PM »
History books.
Its funny. I don't recall "vogue topic of the year" being in my American History books.  But since you said it, please, cite your source.  Should be easy.
It is.

Choose any American History Book and look up the topics I mentioned.

They will be there, I promise.
Yes but we are not talking about those topics.  You claimed health care was not vogue.  You failed to prove this or provide any evidence as to how you know it was not a popular topic of discussion.  I am waiting for that.

Quote
Quote
Math.
Then show your work.  I'll wait.
I do not pay 30 percent income tax.
[/quote]
Is that a fact?
Then show your work.  Or put up your paystub.
Also, its not just income tax.  You have medicare, medicaid, state, federal, and social security taxes.  Did you add those all up?

We do not have all those taxes.  We have 1.  One national income tax that covers everything.
(Filing taxes here is super easy, btw.  We just check to see if the income reported on a website matches what we made and if it does, we do nothing.)

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2019, 10:31:05 AM »
Is that a fact?
Yes.
Then show your work.  Or put up your paystub.
No.
Also, its not just income tax.  You have medicare, medicaid, state, federal, and social security taxes.  Did you add those all up?
Yes I did.
We do not have all those taxes.  We have 1.  One national income tax that covers everything.
(Filing taxes here is super easy, btw.  We just check to see if the income reported on a website matches what we made and if it does, we do nothing.)
Which goes to the entire idea of taxation.

I believe in no taxation of production and strictly a tax on consumption.

Everyone, including corporations, pays a 10 percent tax on every currency unit spent.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2019, 02:54:33 PM »
...
I believe in no taxation of production and strictly a tax on consumption.

...

I like this idea. I also think lowering or completely removing income tax would be good. It would put the power of spending back in the consumers hands. Of course, you'd have to increase taxes on consumables as lackey said, and this would have to be a very high tax. This would do two things:

1. Increase spending power and enable people to decide whether or not the 30% or more of extra income should go to consumables, invested, or saved.
2. Reduce overall consumption since consumable items would be more expensive. This country could stand to reduce consumption by magnitudes. Hell, the amount food wasted each day could easily feed a starving country.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2019, 03:04:53 PM »
So then what’s the plan on the budget after you massively slash revenue? Or would the new consumption tax be higher than the mean sales tax in order to try and offset?
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2019, 04:21:38 PM »
So then what’s the plan on the budget after you massively slash revenue? Or would the new consumption tax be higher than the mean sales tax in order to try and offset?

Consumption tax would have to be much higher. Ultimately you'd have to match the income tax in other areas, but people would be free to choose where to spend that 30% rather than just fork it up to government who then decides what to spend it on.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2019, 05:32:43 PM »
So then what’s the plan on the budget after you massively slash revenue? Or would the new consumption tax be higher than the mean sales tax in order to try and offset?

Consumption tax would have to be much higher. Ultimately you'd have to match the income tax in other areas, but people would be free to choose where to spend that 30% rather than just fork it up to government who then decides what to spend it on.
I don't think so.

Look at GDP.

Tons less paperwork and time, huge reduction in fed workforce...

10 percent, based on current GDP (don't forget that is 10 percent for ALL dollars spent, including wholesale cost).

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2019, 06:06:06 AM »
Is that a fact?
Yes.
Then show your work.  Or put up your paystub.
No.
Also, its not just income tax.  You have medicare, medicaid, state, federal, and social security taxes.  Did you add those all up?
Yes I did.
So basically your entire argument is "Trust me.". You'll understand if I don't.

Quote
We do not have all those taxes.  We have 1.  One national income tax that covers everything.
(Filing taxes here is super easy, btw.  We just check to see if the income reported on a website matches what we made and if it does, we do nothing.)
Which goes to the entire idea of taxation.

I believe in no taxation of production and strictly a tax on consumption.

Everyone, including corporations, pays a 10 percent tax on every currency unit spent.
This is a sensible thought and concept, not your usual rant.  However, I don't think 10% is enough.

GDP has more than just consumer spending in it.
Consumer spending in 2018 was 14.1 trillion.  This includes non-taxable items too.  Food in 2017 was about 1.6 trillion so lets just assume 1 trillion of consumer food spending.
About 3.6 trillion in health care which isn't usually taxed.
So if you keep the current tax exemptions, your spending is already down to 10 trillion.  Our revenue in 2018 was $2.5 trillion.
So 10% wouldn't even cover half of what the government spends.

Re: Is government to blame for Health Care costs?
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2019, 10:35:29 AM »
Is that a fact?
Yes.
Then show your work.  Or put up your paystub.
No.
Also, its not just income tax.  You have medicare, medicaid, state, federal, and social security taxes.  Did you add those all up?
Yes I did.
So basically your entire argument is "Trust me.". You'll understand if I don't.
Don't.
We do not have all those taxes.  We have 1.  One national income tax that covers everything.
(Filing taxes here is super easy, btw.  We just check to see if the income reported on a website matches what we made and if it does, we do nothing.)
Which goes to the entire idea of taxation.

I believe in no taxation of production and strictly a tax on consumption.

Everyone, including corporations, pays a 10 percent tax on every currency unit spent.
This is a sensible thought and concept, not your usual rant.  However, I don't think 10% is enough.

GDP has more than just consumer spending in it.
Consumer spending in 2018 was 14.1 trillion.  This includes non-taxable items too.  Food in 2017 was about 1.6 trillion so lets just assume 1 trillion of consumer food spending.
About 3.6 trillion in health care which isn't usually taxed.
So if you keep the current tax exemptions, your spending is already down to 10 trillion.  Our revenue in 2018 was $2.5 trillion.
So 10% wouldn't even cover half of what the government spends.
You are forgetting corporate wholesale spending.

Please note I wrote: "...every currency unit spent..."

So, including those currency units, and considering that now everyone would be taxed at the exact same rate, the surplus can be realized and no one dodges the payment anymore.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 10:48:33 AM by totallackey »